Northern Ireland natives can still be EEA nationals!

[el patron]

It seems those born in Northern Ireland can choose to be considered Irish (EEA) or British for benefits purposes. Hence non-eea family members of those Irish(EEA) nationals born in Northern Ireland can still claim UK benefits etc.

This is from -

http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/dmser_vol2_35.doc

and I quote from page 10 point 17 of the document.

DEFINITION OF “EEA NATIONAL”

17. The Imm (EEA) Regs set out the rights of “EEA nationals” to reside in the UK. UK nationals are excluded from the definition of “EEA national”. With effect from 16.10.12 the definition also excludes people who are nationals of both an EEA state and the UK1. Thus a person with that sort of dual nationality is not entitled to a right to reside conferred by the Imm (EEA) Regs in their own right; neither can family members derive an EU right to reside from such a person. This change reflects the judgment of the CJEU in Mc Carthy. There are transitional provisions preserving the rights of family members of persons with dual UK/EEA nationality (see below).

Note: Persons born in Northern Ireland have the right to be considered as British citizens, Irish citizens or both. If a person is considered as being solely an Irish citizen then they can still fall within the definition of an EEA national.


http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/dmser_vol2_35.doc


I queried this with a benefits decision maker and it appears they have been told to make the decision purely on what nationality has been entered on the forms.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Interesting.

[Obie]

The difficulty i have with that is, a person who is born in N. Ireland will qualify for both nationalities.

The fact that the person does not apply for a particular passport, does not mean they are not national of that state.

Passport only confirms rights, it does not confer it.

What about the position of an Irish national who gave birth to a child outside N. Ireland, will the position be different, if such person choose to take Irish nationality, when they are clearly British Citizen also.

What is those people subsequently apply for a British passport. What will the position become for their family member?

Will these people be required to renounce their British nationality, given that nationality is automatic, a passport only confirms the existence of this right.

Pretty complicating situation.

It is not a policy that is embeded in statute, so it will be interesting to see how a court will deal with these type of situation.

[el patron]

It's certainly the first attempt that I have seen to interpret the 2012 amendment to the EEA regs in a way that does not tread on the toes of the British-Irish (Good Friday) Agreement.

It is indeed all as clear as mud! I actually believe that this interpretation (for social security purposes) conflicts with the regulations as amended. But who am I to argue if the government wish to facilitate benefit inequality in one region of the UK at the expense of their own nationals.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Interestingly both UK and Irish nationals would qualify for the "right to reside" test.

[MarthaJones]

Obie, as I'm sure you know, persons born outside of the UK to UK citizens are British by descent.

So if I understand things properly, British by descent means the same spousal path is available to those persons, as to a British citizen (I am talking about UK immigration rules - not EU). The children however would likely be considered non-British (unless the other parent were also British). So.......as far as other family members go, British born outside of the UK have to qualify under higher financial requirements IF there are non-British children. And they have this problem whether or not they also happen to be a dual Irish national.

IF they are dual Irish/British born outside the UK, then claiming the Irish citizenship to return the entire family to the UK under EEA rules is STILL the best route.

So I'm confused as to why you think this would complicate things. But there's probably something you know that I don't.......

[el patron]

The fact that the person does not apply for a particular passport, does not mean they are not national of that state.

Interestingly the Irish approach is somewhat different since the British-Irish Agreement. Those born in Northern Ireland (with the requisite parental nationality/status) only in effect have an 'entitlement' and are not automatically Irish, they can only gain Irish citizenship (in the words of the legislation) 'by performing an act that only an Irish person can perform'. Such as? - what about representing Ireland in sport or more likely applying for an Irish passport!