Stamp4EU fam

StefanPL · Post by **StefanPL** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:09 am

Hello Guys,

I have one simple question.

My Wife has a Stamp4EU fam since 2010 and from 2012 to 2013 we had to reside in Germany for private reasons.

As with 4eu fam you don't need a re-entry visa and her stamp4eu fam is until 2015, is there any problem reentering Ireland as we did not reside there for 13 months ?

Thanks

Stefan

dalebutt · Post by **dalebutt** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:45 am

Your wife's stamp 4 may have expired, as she has not acquired permanent residence yet. I think 6 month absence is enough to invalidate the stamp. She can re-enter using the German residence card if she has obtained one.

StefanPL · Post by **StefanPL** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:01 am

dalebutt wrote:Your wife's stamp 4 may have expired, as she has not acquired permanent residence yet. I think 6 month absence is enough to invalidate the stamp. She can re-enter using the German residence card if she has obtained one.

Thanks Dalebutt, I am just wondering how the Irish would know we where gone, there is not immigration out of Ireland and no stamp entering Germany in my wife's passport.

And she has a german residence card, but can she enter ireland then just with that or does she need a visa to enter as well ?

Thanks,

Stefan

dalebutt · Post by **dalebutt** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:21 am

The German residence card can be used in lieu of a visa into the ROI. You are correct, it will be difficult for them to know about the absence on entry, but it might come up if she decide to apply for long term residence as she would not be able to provide proof that you exercised your treaty rights or that you were both present in the country during this period.

She will have no problem whatsoever entering Ireland, either with the Irish stamp4 or the German Aufenthaltskarte.

StefanPL · Post by **StefanPL** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:28 am

dalebutt wrote:The German residence card can be used in lieu of a visa into the ROI. You are correct, it will be difficult for them to know about the absence on entry, but it might come up if she decide to apply for long term residence as she would not be able to provide proof that you exercised your treaty rights or that you were both present in the country during this period.

She will have no problem whatsoever entering Ireland, either with the Irish stamp4 or the German Aufenthaltskarte.

Thanks dalebutt, that's what I thought, do you know maybe a link to the regulations for stamp4EU FAM, as I hear that when she was absence in this time because of medical reasons that would be ok.

At least we had a proof when we renew her residence card later on.

About the German Residence Card, are you sure about that ? As I just read the following on citizensinformation :

If you are coming to Ireland from another EU country as a dependant of an EU national, and you are not a citizen of the EEA or of one of the countries listed above, you will need a visa when you first travel to Ireland. (my wife is not from one of the countrys above)

Thanks for your input and help7

Stefan

dalebutt · Post by **dalebutt** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:42 am

See the Irish Statutory instrument. http://www.dfa.ie/uploads/documents/Con ... 202012.pdf

Aufenthalskarte is an article 10 card, any card issued under that article can be used in lieu of visa into Ireland. There have been members on this forum and other fora who have done so without a problem.

I do not have much details about the sickness regulations, so I really cannot comment on that and will rather leave that to other members who know to pass that comment.

dalebutt · Post by **dalebutt** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:55 am

See 4 [417] of the Instrument.

The S.I. No. 146/2011 — Immigration Act 2004 (Visas) Order 2011 declared thus:

It is hereby declared that the following classes of non-nationals are specified as classes the members of which are not required to be in possession of a valid Irish visa when landing in the State:.

(c) non-nationals who are family members of a Union citizen and holders of a document called “Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen”, as referred to in Article 10 of the Directive of 2004

jeupsy · Post by **jeupsy** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:02 am

The German residence card would let her enter Ireland only of it is a residence card for a family member of an EU citizen, issued based on Directive 2004/38/EC (ie a German equivalent of a Stamp 4 EUFAM here). So it probably depends on whether you applied for her residence card as a German citizen residing in Germany with their spouse or as a German citizen returning to Germany with their spouse after living in Ireland with a Stamp 4 EUFAM. In the second case, she should have a German equivalent of the EUFAM, but not in the first one.

With regard to entering Ireland with the Stamp 4 EUFAM ... they have indeed no record of her leaving or coming back so they don't know you have been living in Germany. Having said that, my partner has a Stamp 4 EUFAM and last time we came back to Ireland they asked her a few questions like: Where is you partner from? Do you live with him in Ireland? Do you work here?
So I would say she should be prepared to answer this type of question and make sure she has answers she is comfortable with.

And yes, in theory here Stamp 4 EUFAM should be invalidated by the fact the she was away for more than 6 months and also you stopped exercising EU Treaty Rights in Ireland. But I think as long as you manage to enter Ireland again and start working or studying quickly enough, no one will bother her (but the permanent residence point is a good one... and the same issue could come up if she wants to apply for citizenship).

I also remember there is an exception for absences due to medical reasons, but I couldn't find they exact reference and I am not sure how long the absence can be

jeupsy · Post by **jeupsy** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:16 am

Btw - for some reason I assumed you were German, but if not then the German card should be good in any case.

dalebutt · Post by **dalebutt** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:25 am

If the OP is German the spouse could have availed of Singh and be issued a residence card, in any case OP made mention of residence card in his post, I hope it is clear that, residence card, and residence permit are two separate words and mean 2 different things.

StefanPL · Post by **StefanPL** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:42 am

dalebutt wrote:If the OP is German the spouse could have availed of Singh and be issued a residence card, in any case OP made mention of residence card in his post, I hope it is clear that, residence card, and residence permit are two separate words and mean 2 different things.

I am German and my wife is filipina. My wife got issued a aufenthaltstitel when she returned to germany last year.

On the Card it states : §28 Abs 1 S. 1 Nr. 3, S. 2
Erwerbstätigkeit gestattet.

The Card is valid for 3 Years

dalebutt · Post by **dalebutt** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:31 am

Your wife will be unable to return to Ireland using the Aufenthaltstitel, if she was issued with a card called Aufenthalskarte that will enable her to return to Ireland without the need to apply for an Irish visa.

Aufenthaltstitel is a residence Permit, Aufenthalskarte is the residence card. Your wife should definitely be able to re-enter with the Irish Stamp4 so you will have no problem either way.

jeupsy · Post by **jeupsy** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:40 pm

I don't know the technicalities of the German cards, but if it is valid for 3 years it doesn't sound like a card issued under EU Treaty Rights (they have to be valid for 5 years).

So as dalebutt mentioned she will have to use the Irish in to enter Ireland (and it probably is a good idea not to show the German one, as if she shows a document saying she is a resident of Germany, it would be difficult to explain why she also holds a residence card for Ireland).

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Stamp4EU fam

Stamp4EU fam