Goodnews from HSMP forum

Papafaith · Post by **Papafaith** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:45 pm

http://www.hsmpforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=266

" amit (Offline)
Legal Team Posts: 136
Join Date: Jan 2007

Tribunal Court Determinition - Today, 11:57 AM

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Dear All,

Good News!

We have got a tribunal court determinition / decision today and the judge allowed the case on grounds of legitimate expectation and human rights. The Judge gave a favourable judgement declaring the appelant has a strong case of legitimate expectation.

More details would be provided soon.

Those who are getting refusals please get in touch and make tribunal court appeals without fail.

Also many people are waiting for the judicial review and it should come up next month sometime which should be our major focus and it would bring relief to us all.

Amit

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Last edited by amit : Today at 03:42 PM."

This is good news for us in immigrationboards forum Can we liase with the forum (Amit) to find the exact details?
Steven Kong will be interested in this.

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:42 pm

Can I ask what was appeal about and how the matter ended up in Tribunal?

I am aware that the way HSMP applications are now dealt with is inept, obdurate and does not correspond to the entire goal of the programme. There have been so many daffy refusals.
It would be good to have some information on the procedure on how such refusals can be followed up to the court.

Please share.

Papafaith · Post by **Papafaith** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:45 pm

Anyone with questions should try and contact Amit of HSMP forum, but one thing is clear in this determination and that is we have a strong ground on legitimate expectation.
On this basis it will be 4yrs instead of the 5yrs.
Dont forget Jeff, its not HSMP Apps but extension refusal on basis of HSMP.

Papafaith · Post by **Papafaith** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:10 pm

Another message below from Amit to his HSMP forum, i pasted it in quote to maintain his copy rights. He posted this on his forum today 26/04/07.

" amit (Offline)
Legal Team Posts: 136
Join Date: Jan 2007

Minister's decision by next week - Today, 03:53 PM

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Hi,

I was told by Keith Vaz's office that the Minister Liam Byrne's office has informed that they would be taking a decision by end of next week as the reviewing team is still looking into the matter.

fyi

Amit "

olisun · Post by **olisun** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:22 pm

Papafaith wrote:On this basis it will be 4yrs instead of the 5yrs.

It is unlikely this clause will be reversed...

Papafaith · Post by **Papafaith** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:25 pm

It will be for those with legitimate expectation, those who came on the old promise.
This gives us hope in the Judicial review, cos the Lawyers can site this judgement in the case.

olisun · Post by **olisun** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:32 pm

Papafaith wrote:It will be for those with legitimate expectation, those who came on the old promise.
This gives us hope in the Judicial review, cos the Lawyers can site this judgement in the case.

But remember there are some candidates who have got the hsmp visa by using doctored experience letters etc.. So the HO might use these examples as a defence to appeal against the judgement.

Also how can some people (HSMP candidates) get ILR in 4yrs and the rest of the immigrants (WP etc) after 5yrs?

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:34 pm

Papafaith wrote: On this basis it will be 4yrs instead of the 5yrs.
Dont forget Jeff, its not HSMP Apps but extension refusal on basis of HSMP.

Ahh... I see...
Well... hope that justice will be done there.

Papafaith · Post by **Papafaith** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:39 pm

Olisun, those who came before Nov 6 last year came here with a promise of ILR after 4 yrs, this is the legitimate expectation that the court have ruled that those who appealed in the link from Amits HSMP forum have and by extension everyone who came before the new rule.
It will be a powerful weapon in the Judicial review or in the hand of any one who is refused ILR after 4yrs if he/she applies.
Doctored docs is irrelevant here, this is a matter of law.

Siggi · Post by **Siggi** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:17 am

Big congratulations to all at VBSI!

The brilliant submission to the Joint Commitee on Human Rights and yesterdays positive out come at the Tribunal Court.

I reckon that this will JR in June a much better chance of succeding now, thats if the HO does'nt back down before then.

MUGHAL · Post by **MUGHAL** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:33 am

hi,if you (FLR)do not agree with home office decision about new hsmp changes then u can say
Matter is like that we purchase the travel ticket to go to France and when we board then crew announces that we are going but via Rusia (one passenger stands up and says we were suppose to go to France AND the crew says that They never have asked to passengers that Flight will not go to Rusia) .....haa.haa. who is on right ?????....
i was very much disappointed by the different news. But now i am feeling that we will be succeeded soon.
furthermore,i am too much surprised that why BBC have not highlighted this matter of immigration changes more,i think they had been stopped-otherwise BBC was the organisation that always rais the voice for the affected people for any reason in the UK.Anyway every one (In forum) is doing best to make aware others for new updates.
NOW the ball will be in front of judges in the courts and we're hoping best. no doubt the court can give good impression to the world by giving rightful decision at the end.
Regards.
mughal

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:17 pm

Can this ruling be used on other applications
For me, I'd like to apply for citizenship and the 4 year mark was last year so I lost a year on indefinite. as you need 1 year for indefinite before apply for naturalisation. It says on the naturalisation you can apply without one year indefinite if you have a good reason, I was thinking this could be the good reason. Any thoughts and comments or input is appreciated on this matter
Cheers

Siggi · Post by **Siggi** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:04 am

SYH I don't think this ruling can be applied just yet!
Personally I believe that the JR due for the 15/16th June will rule in favour of all those effected by the 4/5 years change.
Thats if the HO doe'snt admit defeat before the JR, which I think is likely.
Be patience and watch the VSBI web site closely for any new updates between now and the 15/16th June 07

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:37 pm

What is the link???
what is jr and vsbi?

Papafaith · Post by **Papafaith** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:50 pm

SYH, this ruling is for a particalar case, someone appealed the HO decision of refusal. It can only be cited in other individual cases and that is if the lawyers know about this decision. And it will still be prone to a 50/50 chance depending on the arguement of tha lawyer.
A Judicial Review on the other hand is an opposition of the new HSMP rule in a court of law and if succesful it automatically applies to all HSMP holders. In other words, the court would aaask HO to revert to the earlier promise, in this case we dont have to prove individually in a tribunal or a court of law.
VBSI (Voice of Britain Skilled Immigrants) is a body or association that is a common voice on the things that affect skilled (On work permit and HSMP etc) immigrants.
In this case it is the organisation that is liasing (On behalf of skilled immigrants) with the lawyer(Steven Kong) handling the judicial review.
The date of the review is 14th and 15th of June.
We are awaiting the opening of accounts by the lawyers in other for us to make our contributions towards the cost of this review.
I hope you will be willing to contribute? I also hope this has answered you queries.

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:53 pm

what do you think the ramifications if the ruling is upheld. For me the 4 year mark already passed, will they let me go straight to naturalization if they decide to abide by the ruling.

olisun · Post by **olisun** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:49 pm

SYH wrote:what do you think the ramifications if the ruling is upheld. For me the 4 year mark already passed, will they let me go straight to naturalization if they decide to abide by the ruling.

Have you got ILR now?

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:26 pm

NO I dont have the ILR because they changed the time frame from 4 to 5 so I have to wait until sept this year to be at the 5 year mark.
Thats my point, I wanted to apply at the 4 year mark but they changed it just before my 4 year mark occurred. Otherwise I would have applied and at the 5 year mark, I would have applied for naturalisation.
It says for naturalisation it is possible to apply without ilr if you provide them a good reason and I am hoping this ruling is considered a good reason

olisun · Post by **olisun** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:23 pm

SYH wrote:NO I dont have the ILR because they changed the time frame from 4 to 5 so I have to wait until sept this year to be at the 5 year mark.
Thats my point, I wanted to apply at the 4 year mark but they changed it just before my 4 year mark occurred. Otherwise I would have applied and at the 5 year mark, I would have applied for naturalisation.
It says for naturalisation it is possible to apply without ilr if you provide them a good reason and I am hoping this ruling is considered a good reason

All the best

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:02 am

olisun wrote: All the best

Unnecessary.

Why do people do that, ask you a question and then return it with unhelpful oneliner. Just leave it alone if you dont have anything useful to add

Papafaith · Post by **Papafaith** » Tue May 01, 2007 9:47 am

SYH, dont know why you are irritated, Olisun didnt say anything wrong, just wishing you the best, this is a positive attitude, which we all try to maintain on this forum.

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Tue May 01, 2007 10:44 am

Maybe papafaith if you could read all the posts, you would understand. so let me spell it out for you

first he quotes my question on the ramifications and asks about my ilr status implying he has some input depending on my status. I give him a response, getting my hopes up that he has some mindblowing insight and all he can say is all the best which isn't really what his sentiment is anyway.

Either he is being nosy or he didn't pay attention to the line of thought and instead of fessing up to it, just walked away with a some concilliatory remark.

I am not here to pick a fight but I'd appreciate it if you do not tell me how to feel.

I do appreciate the explanation you provided to me earlier, that was helpful as I am new so I am not used to the lingo and not current on the status of the decision regarding the 4 to 5 year appeal on HSMP to ILR

Siggi · Post by **Siggi** » Tue May 01, 2007 11:33 am

SYH
I'm missing something here, what makes your case so special, that you think you can miss out on doing the 1year ILR before applying for Nat.

HO clearly states you must complete 1 year on ILR before applying for Nat and I don't see that you have any good compelling reasons .

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Tue May 01, 2007 12:01 pm

Because I would have applied at the 4 year mark for the ILR but they changed it to 5 years. and at 5 years I would have applied for immigration
if there is now a ruling recognizing that I should have been allowed to apply at the 4 year mark for the ILR, then to not lose the time it has taken to get that sorted, I should be able to go directly to naturalisation.
My case isn't special, it is the issue many people are facing just that my 4 year mark has passed and now I am in between the 4 to 5 year mark. If I still have to do the 1 year, then the ruling has no bite.

Siggi · Post by **Siggi** » Tue May 01, 2007 12:17 pm

Yes like thousands of others who are also effected the same way as you.!
But you to will have to wait for the JR final out come on the matter.

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Goodnews from HSMP forum

Goodnews from HSMP forum