Older dependent relatives

[varre_v]

Hey Guys,
I have my mother who is a widow aged 54 yrs back home in India.We are 3 children (me,sister,sister). Me and my first younger sister are settled in UK while my second sister is in US. My mother visited us in the UK on family visit visa three times already and now I am thinking of getting her on elderly dependant visa. But looking at the new rules I am biting my nails if she will get it or not?

PLEASE ADVISE WHETHER TO APPLY FOR ELDERLY DEPENDANT VISA OR A FAMILY VISITOR VISA?

[km25]

I am much more than simply furious reading new immigration rules on elderly dependants of British citizens. Such an inhumane rule which no one can satisfy at all. If you satisfy one condition then you nullify the other and vice versa. I am gob smacked that how come these rules were passed? Does anyone know if these have been challenged in court, any judicial review in action or planned etc? Because it completely shuts the door on elderly dependants of British citizens for ever, how inhumane and against basic rights

Dear all,
Here's a link to the e-petition that I accidentally came across whilst researching about this...Please sign up and get the word around to others who are in a similar position as this matter will only be taken forward if there are enough signatures..pls forward it to as many as you can as it doesn't seem to be widely advertised to my surprise as I haven't come across this on any of the immigration forums.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/36798

Hopefully, this will have change things or atleast a step forward in the right direction!!

Best Wishes,

[LankanFunkin]

How many signatures does that epetition need in order for the UK Government to take note?

[MPH80]

See the 'How e-petitions work' page - 100,000 - and that only MIGHT get you a debate in the commons.

Get a million or two and you might have a chance of the law changing using the epetition.

Realistically - a court battle is the only way this will be changed. None of the parties in power want to be seen to be loosening the strings on immigration right now.

[Shiftingsands]

Hello Folks,
I am all game to take this battle (ILR for genuine dependant and elderly parents) to the court of law. I want to get my elderly mother an opportunity so that she doesnt have to return to India within 180 days. It is cruel and against the norm of family life.

How can we proceed on this? I briefly spoke to a lawyer and his point was that we cannot take it to court unless we are an affected party, meaning I should first apply for my mother's ILR and if/when refused I would most likely lose her multi year family visitor visa. Under these circumstances, I can consider going to the court.

Obviously this is a very high risk strategy for our family. We would rather have our mother be here 6 months of the year than not be here at all. That will kill her.

I would like to suggest that like minded people get together and form a group.

Look forward to hearing from all.
Thanks
S

[LankanFunkin]

All,

I got this email from the Migrant's Rights Network. Please follow the link and ask your MP to attend. Also be sure to give them an idea why they must fight the cruel and callous rules.


Great news! Growing concern about the impacts of the new family migration rules has led to the scheduling of a special parliamentary debate for MPs next Wednesday 19 June, from 2:30pm to 4pm.

Both the Immigration Minister and the Shadow Immigration Minister will be required to attend.

We hope that all MPs who are concerned about the rules will agree to attend and have a proper debate about these rules.

Write to your MP today and ask them to attend the Westminster Hall Debate next Wednesday.

http://www.writetothem.com/?utm_source= ... -217241329[/url]

[BritCits]

TO PLS SEND TO YOUR MP

Family Migration Rules: Request to attend Westminster Hall Debate

Date: Wednesday, 19th June 2013
Time: 14:30 - 16:00
Venue: Grand Committee Room, House of Commons

As your constituent, I am writing to ask you to attend the Westminster Hall Debate on the impacts of the new family migration rules, which will be held next Wednesday afternoon, on my behalf. This debate follows the launch of a new report by the All Party Parliamentary Group on Migration, which detailed the emerging impacts of the rules on a wide range of British citizens since last July. The report can be downloaded here (http://www.appgmigration.org.uk/family-inquiry).

If despite making all attempts you still cannot attend and raise my concerns, I would like you to write to Immigration Minister, Mark Harper MP highlighting this issue jeopardising a very basic right to a family life for British voters has been raised by your constituents. Indeed, enough families have been destroyed by these rules already and we need to do all we can to prevent further blood at the hands of these rules which weaken the very fabric of our society. (see: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22868332)

I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards

(Your name)
(Your address)[/u]

[BritCits]

Hello Folks,


Obviously this is a very high risk strategy for our family. We would rather have our mother be here 6 months of the year than not be here at all. That will kill her.

I would like to suggest that like minded people get together and form a group.

Look forward to hearing from all.
Thanks
S

Hi SS..so if you're game to take it to court my recommendation would be (take legal advice first!) to ensure your mum is in the country - it will definitely be rejected because the criteria is impossible but also because she cant apply from within UK.

Ensure that you have the right to appeal under any grounds, be they article 8, when its rejected..i dont think an appeal under normal immigration rules is possible.

Once you apply for settlement for your mum you are letting UKBA know that ur intention is to have her stay, so its likely her visit visa will *never* (worst case scenario) be granted again.

But if she's in the country and the EEA route is not possible for you, then maybe its worth it rather than having her over for 6 months at a time. At some point they will block that route off too as if she is coming regularly for 6 months at a time they will say its not a visit..its an intention to live (it happened at the airport to the mum of someone I know in Scotland although they let her in that time).

If you are then going to apply, then i would defo recommend applying towards the end of her 6 months rather than the beginning as it buys you more time..because once application has been made she continues to stay under her then immigration status.

If it does get rejected and the court thing doesnt work iin your favour either, have you considered the EEA route?

Obviously check with a lawyer and get confirmation that they will take on the case. I would recommend non profit lawyers like xxxx (I dont work for them but have liaised with their staff and am aware of their having taken the govt to court). Another good one is xxxxxxxxxxx (I have liaised with xxxxxxxxxx, but he is super busy) who have also done some high profile cases.

[BritCits]

Hi all

I have founded BritCits which is a group to stand up for the rights of British citizens..including naturalised ones! We only have a couple of parent cases..mostly spouse ones. If you could pls send in your story to xxxxxxxxxxx - we only need your first name, and we can use an anonymous one if you prefer, plus photos if you like..would be good to show that the parents issue is also a significant one.

The route as it is for parents is ridiculous because they've made it impossible. It would be better if they had closed the route completely because it would make for an easier argument..but they havent done that and are fooling innocents into paying nearly £2000 for an application that is guaranteed to fail.

The APPG on migration report is also a good read (link in my earlier post from today) to pls send to your MP.

[BritCits]

You may be aware there is a parliamentary debate on family immigration, next week. A group has gotten in touch with me particularly asking for stories of people affected by the adult dependant - elderly parent - route, so they can raise this in the debate next week.

Please, this is OUR CHANCE. Send in your story..first name is fine, along with constituency, and an outline of your situation, why you want your parent(s) to move to the UK and how the rules prevent you from doing so. Urgent pls! We need to show the immigration rules are not just impacting those with non EU spouses.

xxxxxxxxxxxx

Ideally today!!

[Shiftingsands]

You may be aware there is a parliamentary debate on family immigration, next week. A group has gotten in touch with me particularly asking for stories of people affected by the adult dependant - elderly parent - route, so they can raise this in the debate next week.

Please, this is OUR CHANCE. Send in your story..first name is fine, along with constituency, and an outline of your situation, why you want your parent(s) to move to the UK and how the rules prevent you from doing so. Urgent pls! We need to show the immigration rules are not just impacting those with non EU spouses.

xxxxxxxxxxx

Ideally today!!

Can you shed more light on this group. I would little more information. thanks

[BritCits]

Sure. BritCits is a group founded by myself and another person. We were liaising with other migrant groups, FB etc..but I found there wasnt enough being done, esp on the parents front which is the situation which affects me..i was facing comments such as, immigration should be for immediate family, and parents are not immediate, theyre extended. Clearly, me not happy with that!

I had the idea of collating stories in one document..making more of an impact when it reaches an MPs desk than many individual ones...and so the other co-founder and I (we met on one of the FB groups) got together to do something more proactive than just complaining on FB.. and thats how we have arisen.

We have been as active as we can given we both have FT jobs..but we have done well. We - both by our indiviudal names, and the group BritCits was mentioned in the report launched by APPG on migration on Monday (link in my earlier post). I have only a handful of parent stories..theyre mostly on spouses. So while we want to get as many stories as we can, I'm especially keen to get more parents ones because given the crtieria is actually impossible to meet, I'm appalled at little attention it is still getting. So doing more and more to push it every time, while still supporting spouses..i.e. especially for Brits with family oseas, be they spouses or parents.

[Anndeep]

Does anyone know the outcome of the parliamentary debate on family immigration?

[BritCits]

Does anyone know the outcome of the parliamentary debate on family immigration?

Debate on at the moment..you can watch live on www.parliament live.tv

[Anndeep]

Thanks for the link

[Anndeep]

The parliament debate seems to focus on the income threshold and bringing spouse --- what about elderly dependent parents ??????? Where did that discussion go?

[smoonly]

Come to see, I also encountered the same problem

[arifzx]

Hello all,

Victorious at last. My parents got their ILR as dependant relative. App was done on 6th of July 2012. This is ther second application, and after a gruelling wait f 11 months. Mission accomplished. My father turned 65 whiskt home office was processing the application and my mother is 61.

Hurrah

[daisy80]

please could you guve ur case details and the documentation u provided

[vinny]

The parliament debate seems to focus on the income threshold and bringing spouse --- what about elderly dependent parents ??????? Where did that discussion go?

See also Parliament Committee Report on New Family Rules and Westminster Debate.

[kahn]

Hello all,

Victorious at last. My parents got their ILR as dependant relative. App was done on 6th of July 2012. This is ther second application, and after a gruelling wait f 11 months. Mission accomplished. My father turned 65 whiskt home office was processing the application and my mother is 61.

Hurrah

Congrats , please could you share your case details and the documentation you provided to support the application- Thanks

[MPH80]

Kahn/Daisy - you do realise that as the application was submitted July 6th 2012 - it wasn't subject to the new rules right?

Any documentation/information provided will only serve to help history - not any new applicants.

[kahn]

Kahn/Daisy - you do realise that as the application was submitted July 6th 2012 - it wasn't subject to the new rules right?

Any documentation/information provided will only serve to help history - not any new applicants.

Guru, thanks to point it out -Yes , do realize it could most probably be a decision made under the transitional arrangements from 9 July 2012 that is why it could be very helpful to possibly look at more details of case to understand how the transitional arrangements have in fact been viewed by the H.O. Apparently it does confirm the view that circumstances at the time of decision (age 65 in this case) are relevant - be it entry clearance Paragraph 27 or in-country switching. If this is the case it is very important decision as it supports the view that the spirit of principle
( maybe now only to the date of HO decision stage) of China 2005 held in appeal is alive. This could help significantly whether or not to go for an expensive JR/Appeal in a pre- 9 July 2012 application refusal. It is what want to be very sure about- Is it age on date of decision or date of application i.e. how has this been affected or not been affected by the changes / transitional Rules (HC194).

However it could be decision for different, exceptional reasons 317 (i)(e) or perhaps outside the Rules OR the applicants could have qualified new Rules - which is even more interesting if this is the case - so curious-thanks

[arifzx]

Dear Fellow forum members,

Many thanks for all your help. I had decided to share our success story, as its not only a victory against the odds but its also an achievement of being patient.

My parents had lived all their lives in Middle East. Almost 40 years. They are originally Asian by birth.My father lost his job in Middle East when he was 58, and their visas were canceled. They both had 10 years multiple entry visas and visited me regularly since. In 2008 they applied for ILR in country and got their apps refused as they could by meet the exceptional compassionate test, as both were under 65. All appeals exhausted. They had been living with me since in UK. As they ha no where else to go. They both have medical issues.
On 6th of July 2012, we prepared another application through solicitors with all the required docs. They had their biometrics done in January 2013. ILR issued last week. My father was 64 at the time of application and turned 65 in march 2013.
The application was very detailed and exhaustive of evidence provided, with medical reports from docs here and treatments.
All our profiles, and with no family member anywhere else apart from UK.
Any other info please ask. But the solicitors advised me that they had granted our application within the paragraph 317 with view of our circumstances to human rights and exceptional case of being living away from their birth country for most part f ther lives, and having no ties to their country of birth. Also in view of private family life we had established in UK for the last 6-7 years.
Please ignore and typos, vocabulary and grammar mistakes as I am typing on a phone.

[kahn]

Dear Fellow forum members,

Many thanks for all your help. I had decided to share our success story, as its not only a victory against the odds but its also an achievement of being patient.

My parents had lived all their lives in Middle East. Almost 40 years. They are originally Asian by birth.My father lost his job in Middle East when he was 58, and their visas were canceled. They both had 10 years multiple entry visas and visited me regularly since. In 2008 they applied for ILR in country and got their apps refused as they could by meet the exceptional compassionate test, as both were under 65. All appeals exhausted. They had been living with me since in UK. As they ha no where else to go. They both have medical issues.
On 6th of July 2012, we prepared another application through solicitors with all the required docs. They had their biometrics done in January 2013. ILR issued last week. My father was 64 at the time of application and turned 65 in march 2013.
The application was very detailed and exhaustive of evidence provided, with medical reports from docs here and treatments.
All our profiles, and with no family member anywhere else apart from UK.
Any other info please ask. But the solicitors advised me that they had granted our application within the paragraph 317 with view of our circumstances to human rights and exceptional case of being living away from their birth country for most part f ther lives, and having no ties to their country of birth. Also in view of private family life we had established in UK for the last 6-7 years.
Please ignore and typos, vocabulary and grammar mistakes as I am typing on a phone.

Thanks for sharing your story. The reason I was particularly interested in the case is the background of reported case YZ And LX China 2005 0157 Upper Tribunal Appeal . case law principle was The dependent parents who initially applied ( from visit visa) under Paragraph 317 (i) (e) but did not meet its sub para (i)(e) for most exceptional compassionate circumstances, however they continue to apply under Paragraph 317 till they meet another sun Para the husband turned 65 before the hearing so the couple were held to have met the other sub para then numbered (i)(c) - one of them 65.

Though any changes to additional evidence at appeal Sec 85(4) may not be relevant for us, if applicant already turned 65 at the stage of H.O decision yet it was a clear position to support a view that date of decision was relevant for age 65 and not age of application. If HO refused for the sole reason neither of two was 65 on the date of application,then one given view is an appeal would have very high probability of success But there is a second given view that though they continued to apply to date of decision but after 9 July 2012 Paragraph 317 was not enough alone, they must meet the new Rule's care criterion on such subsequent date. This is where I am confused -how well the old Rules were ring - fenced by Transitional arrangements .
If your parents succeeded because under the transitional arrangements they were found covered by 317 (i)(b) i.e. one of them turned 65 at the time of decision it is clear position- they needed nothing else .
But I get confused if your solicitor says besides meeting 317 also met human/family and exceptional circumstances - to me it does not add up.

Can some experts please explain - To go or not to go into a JR/Appeal process is a very high risk situation .