Indefinite Leave to enter - Liable to be detained

[pereras2000]

Hi, I hope that I have posted this in the right link.

My visa is a spouse visa with Indefinite leave to enter but with an expiry date, and we have been together for 5 years and married for 3 years. So a few months back before my dates on ILE expired I contacted UKBA personally by visiting them, even though I didn't enter the premises as I had no appointment the security called out for an immigration officer and he confirmed that as long as its got indefinite on the visa, there is nothing I can do to renew the visa as long as my passport is valid, I was even told by the helpline that even if I apply for a new ILR visa with new dates it would be refused and fees will not be refunded as my passport is valid.
So I applied for a job 2 months back with the ILE even though the date is expired I was offered the job after they clarified with UKBA of my status over the phone.

I then applied for Schengen with the visa that has expired but got it quickly as my Spouse is British and went to visit Europe, but on returning after a weeks holiday I was held at the airports immigration control due to the expiry date on my visa, The immigration officer then separated my wife from me but she refused to leave the airport. I was told the observations on my visa was incorrect and then told they need to clarify the visa with the ECO who issued me with the spouse/ILE visa from nearly 3 years back. I also explained my side of the story on how UKBA informed me twice that my visa is alright and once in the UKBA office, all they did was apologize for what happened. They then took me to a room, fingerprinted me on a form that says Restricted, then some sort of musghot taken with height. My passport was taken away from me I also reminded them about how i need it for my induction in 2 weeks time and they said I would have it by then most probably and then was also told it is mostly done to correct the error and as I may have been given an incorrect endorsement with ILE, I might actually receive full ILR after this. This is what one of the UKBA officers told me. Now I'm also doubtful of UKBAs advice as the last time it seemed to be incorrect.

I was then given an IS81 form with a tick in the "I have more questions to ask you", then no questions asked, after an hour of me strolling up and down the Counters as it was dead i was then issued an IS96 which says IMMIGRATION ACT 1971- NOTIFICATION OF TEMPORARY ADMISSION TO A PERSON WHO IS LIABLE TO BE DETAINED and also says I would have to report to the UKBA to know about the updates of my visa in few days time and thats another long trip which is couple days from now,finally they escorted me towards the exit where my Mrs was.


I even lost the transport back home and had to fork out £45 to get back home. My question is what are these forms and do I need to worry about this as I haven't done anything wrong from my part, or do I need legal assistance.

Any advice help will be appreciated.

[vinny]

See also ECB9.6 Indefinite Leave to Enter (ILE) and Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) and ILE.

[pereras2000]

thanks for the prompt response vinny, but I do have printouts of those as well i took to my employer, the immigration officerssimply dont understand my visa and said cant stamp as the date is expired on the visa with ILE, I wonder if I shall take the printouts when I report I havent heard of anyone getting these forms and I also did my KOL for naturalization Im kind of confused regarding this situation.

[Ayyubi72]

Now, can you please read your ILE visa vignette carefully and check whether is say something like "ILE Kol Required"

Does it say KoL required anywhere on the visa vignette?

[pereras2000]

Well I do not have the passport with me as it is with the UKBA and it clearly does not say anything about ''KoL Required'' but I still did it and passed it end of last year as I was also told I can apply for naturalization by UKBA when I contacted them before doing my KoL.

[Ayyubi72]

You have said you got ILE 3 years ago.

Can you please confirm this (month and year you got ILE).

[pereras2000]

I got in nearly 3 years back in October I believe, 2010.As far as I remember the vignette read like:
My name: Vaf Number:
Spouse of : Date issued :
Date expired :

Obsrv : Indefinite Leave to enter the UK.


<<BRITISH HIGH COMMISSION SEAL>> << Immigration officers stamp (first arrival with this visa on 2010) >>

[Ayyubi72]

If that is the case then UKBA is correct.

You must have had KoL required on the visa, you haven't noticed.

You had to pass KoL after arriving in UK, and then applied for ILR. You had 27 months to do that.

Since KoL requirements were introduced for ILR, all the ILE's issued had this KoL required on them.

So, technically your visa has expired and now you are an overstayer in UK. Border official were correct.

[vinny]

So, technically your visa has expired and now you are an overstayer in UK. Border official were correct.

Perhaps not.

[Ayyubi72]

Good old ILE never expired.

Can you elaborate why this new ILE (KoL required) came into being?

If ILE (Kol required) is as good as the good old ILE, then why were the words KoL required started to appear on the vignettes?

[pereras2000]

If that is the case then UKBA is correct.

You must have had KoL required on the visa, you haven't noticed.

You had to pass KoL after arriving in UK, and then applied for ILR. You had 27 months to do that.

Since KoL requirements were introduced for ILR, all the ILE's issued had this KoL required on them.

So, technically your visa has expired and now you are an overstayer in UK. Border official were correct.

Just to clarify , I did not have KoL required on the Vignette ... But I still did it.
IF I have overstayed then it was based on the information from the UKBA when contacted earlier that indefinite means that no time restrictions on my stay. . Even my employer informed that they sorted my status out after contacting UKBA using employers check line, before offering me a job last month.

[vinny]

There isn't endorsement that says "ILE (KOL required)".

It would either say "ILE" or "KOL REQ".

If the ILE was granted, even in error, then it cannot be easily revoked after activation.

[Ayyubi72]

I would again state, that the most important thing is your visa vignette.

Once again, it will all in the end come down to your visa vignette.

You really need to look at it. If you do not have a photocopy of your visa then it will just be a guess work.

If KoL required is mentioned on the vignette, then what I said above will be correct.

If (by mistake) they issued you ILE without KoL required mentioned on it, then you have a valid argument, and you will win in the end.

Once again Your visa vignette is the key.

[Casa]

pereras2000 doesn't appear to meet the condition (since withdrawn) of having been married for a minimum of 4 years and living for the whole of that time with his wife outside of the UK. In which case, the ILE may well have been issued in error although difficult to revoke.

[pereras2000]

I would again state, that the most important thing is your visa vignette.

Once again, it will all in the end come down to your visa vignette.

You really need to look at it. If you do not have a photocopy of your visa then it will just be a guess work.

If KoL required is mentioned on the vignette, then what I said above will be correct.

If (by mistake) they issued you ILE without KoL required mentioned on it, then you have a valid argument, and you will win in the end.

Once again Your visa vignette is the key.

Cheers,
Vinny that thread was very informative as well.
True the visa vignette is very crucial here,
From a copy this is what it exactly reads as... just to make sure its not guess work and it can be helpful I will try and type whats on it. Its a cream/beige vignette

................. UK Entry Clearance.......................
<Photo>
Place of Issue: .............
Number of Entries : MULT ....................... Valid from :...... Vaild until :....
Type : D-SPOUSE/CP - Spouse of (Spouses name)...... Sex:.............
Name : My name.......................................................D.O.B :........
Passport number :.................................................... Nationality: .....
Obsrv : Indefinite leave to enter the UK

<<Seals I mentioned earlier about>>

<<2 lines of Machine readable code I think... >>

So thats exactly what it reads, any info please let me know... Im wondering how could UKBA mess it up even when I approached them earlier, and they kept telling me everything alright and it all comes at once, this killed my holiday.

Thanks for the input Casa,

Just a brief of my circumstances.
We have been together for totally 5 years from 2008, married for 3 years this Sept. Only spent 4 months away from the UK before the marriage in 2010 as it was away from the UK and after marrying I received this Visa with the ILE in 2010.

[Ayyubi72]

They issued you with ILE in error.

Now people who know practically what happens in this kind of scenario will tell you what to do now.

[onabanjo]

pereras2000 doesn't appear to meet the condition (since withdrawn) of having been married for a minimum of 4 years and living for the whole of that time with his wife outside of the UK. In which case, the ILE may well have been issued in error although difficult to revoke.

Yes, I concur. It would be extremely difficult for UKBA to revoke it . There was similar case of a friend who was granted a visa in error but UKBA did try to revoke it after three years when my friends sent his passport for an upgraded visa.He fought it through his lawyer and MP and the visa was reinstated.

The issue is, UKBA is likely to revoke but you need to prepare your mind to fight it through a sound lawyer and also your MP and you may be lucky if a senior staff in UKBA who probably knows the implication of revoking it decides and advises against such line of action but I will advise you to prepare for the worst .The worst i mean is, be prepared to fight through it in case its revoked

[pereras2000]

Thanks for the replies, really helpful, hope someone who experienced this or a similar case has some further advice as well,
My wife is wondering if whether coming with me to report would be of any benefit, and I decided to take the email replies of UKBA from earlier correspondence and Marriage Cert, and a few other printouts from UKBA regarding this issue. Your opinions on these would be appreciated. Thanks.

[pereras2000]

Updates:
Went with the Mrs to the port where my PassP was held by the border officials.
Spoke to the security and then after a few minutes a very polite officer holding my PP and l/card came out, saw me and my Mrs and then said, She cant say why my PP was withheld as none of the staff who worked that day was present, and couldn't find anything wrong. I then explained her the whole situation of the ILE and the dates. I was then informed that a visa with an ILE or ILR over rides expiry dates in the vignette, and how travelling could be done with a different passport with the same visa.



I was also asked what appl. I applied for and is it for settlement, I said the spouse one which was issued with a 27 month validity. I also mentioned how I spoke to UKBA earlier and also took proof of correspondence in case it was needed and told about the hassle which consisted of the fingerprinting and transport delay, the officer was very understanding and even told that a complaint can be made.

After a few questions she said nothing can be done about the visa, went back in for like 15 mins, came back and issued me the PassP.
I then questioned about the date stamp and told how important that is and then was told that to days date could be stamped
and also got stamped todays date even though I arrived a week back.

Finally,Two questions guys,
1. Anyone know about the complaints procedure or experienced how it works?
2. When I apply for naturalization, is it alright for me to give the date stamped recently by the officer or the date I arrived, as the other countries embarkation date on the PassP is a week back?


Thanks for all your support!!

[pereras2000]

Just checked out the complaints procedure from the UKBA site and was wondering whether to make a complaint by email or post.
Also wanted to know if this will be worth the time / productive or the mail just ignored?
Your input is very much appreciated.