UK 4 years MEng fails in English Requirement, please help!

[Beckscum]

I have got a letter yesterday regarding my HSMP application has been refused because of my first degree MEng can not be used as a Bachelor degree to met the English Language Requirement ; the original statement is as follow,

"The letter you have provided from the awarding institution does not contain the required information. It confirms the award of Masters degree but does not confirm a Bachelor degree was obtained"

I have to stress that my MEng obtained in the UK university is a 4 years Undergraduate Course, which is an integrated programme that include and build upon undergraduate study, at masters level, a level demonstrably above that of a bachelors degree with honours, and that is only offered to the post A-level student.

I am thinking to request a review and try to explain the situation; as the course information is available online, would it be a good idea to include the hyperlink in the appeal letter?

Is that any better way to tackle the issue?

Can anyone please help?

Thank you very much.

[ball1333]

"The letter you have provided from the awarding institution does not contain the required information. It confirms the award of Masters degree but does not confirm a Bachelor degree was obtained"

If you would be able to submit additional evidence, I would have the university edit the letter so it states specifically that the MEng was a 4-year undergraduate course for which you were admitted on the basis of your A-levels, through UCAS, etc, that there is no Bachelor's degree awarded in your subject, or whatever makes it clear that the degree was not a 'real' master's. I am sure that in the past your uni has had to explain this fact for other students.

However, it is my understanding that requests for review cannot involve any additional supporting documentation. In this case your idea to describe the course in your letter sounds good. But I would not trust the HO to follow the hyperlink. I would give them the relevant information in the body of the letter that you send. Can you copy-and-paste information from the website into your letter, and explain what the information means to your application? That may be the safest way.

The HO should be embarrassed that its staff have such limited knowledge of the UK higher education system but there we are....

[makon]

As you have already been told, review applications cannot contain new evidence. There are two options open to you.

1) Apply for review, and explain. There is a possiblity that the appeal will fail because the letter from the uni did not contain the information they really need, and that is course duration and mode of delivery

Option 2:
Send in a fresh application and make sure that the letter from uni is properly constructed to contain all relevant info

[SYH]

I think if you appeal, I'd still get the letter for the degree conferer and see if they can say, we apologize if the letter wasn't clear in explaining that the bachelor degree was indeed included as that was our intention.

[pantaiema]

Beckscum

I think thy just apply the rule blindly (black & white), because the guidelines clerly state it must be bachelors degree not Masters degree. Although it is highly irrational.

This is another example how risky it is if you are using degree certificate. I hope this will be a lesson learnt for other prospectice applicants. If you h ave studied in the UK for 4 years get IELTS of 6.0 is a piece of cake.

As you might know that reasonable number of HSMP caseworker have never been to higher education, so they do not know that MEng is actually bachelor leading to masters degree (Bsc+MSc) therefore take 4 years. It si probably alos becuase the wording dod not explain how many years to get MEng degree. They might taught only 1 year ;like any other british master's degree.

You should either go for review or resubm,it application with IELTS score do not take risk again.

good luck
Pantaiema

I have got a letter yesterday regarding my HSMP application has been refused because of my first degree MEng can not be used as a Bachelor degree to met the English Language Requirement ; the original statement is as follow,

"The letter you have provided from the awarding institution does not contain the required information. It confirms the award of Masters degree but does not confirm a Bachelor degree was obtained"

I have to stress that my MEng obtained in the UK university is a 4 years Undergraduate Course, which is an integrated programme that include and build upon undergraduate study, at masters level, a level demonstrably above that of a bachelors degree with honours, and that is only offered to the post A-level student.

I am thinking to request a review and try to explain the situation; as the course information is available online, would it be a good idea to include the hyperlink in the appeal letter?

Is that any better way to tackle the issue?

Can anyone please help?

Thank you very much.

[Filipinas]

I know it is may sound silly to check on the matter with UK NARIC as your degree was earned here in UK. But since HO is depending on NARIC's level of comparison. Why not try calling UK Naric and checking out if it is possible for them to give a certificate of how your degree stands. If you go through this route, try to explain in your cover letter HO's stand.

Then try getting intouch with your caseworker. I believe some applicants were able to get hold of their respective caseworkers and were able to explain their issues.

Another fallback is new application, but that would mean new fees to be paid for.

Good luck.

Filipinas

[Beckscum]

I am sadly to say my application has also been refused in the review, MEng can not be accepted as English Language Requirement.

The original qoute is as below,

"Whilst we note the reasons provided within your review request, we are simply unable to accept qualifications that are considered at a higher level than a UK Bachelor".

I've lost £400 because of such a silly rule. I am make a compliant to "Complaints and Compensation Team, Work Permits", does anyone here deal with them before? Do you think it is useful or better to avoid making trouble?

Thank you.

[ball1333]

"Whilst we note the reasons provided within your review request, we are simply unable to accept qualifications that are considered at a higher level than a UK Bachelor".

I've lost £400 because of such a silly rule. I am make a compliant to "Complaints and Compensation Team, Work Permits", does anyone here deal with them before? Do you think it is useful or better to avoid making trouble?

Thank you.

I would make a complaint and ask for the matter to be referred to the Policy Team. It sounds like the guidance has a hole in it that needs to be fixed for not only your sake, but also for the sake of any other MEng degree holders who want to apply for HSMP.

[intalex]

Hi Becksum, I'm sorry if I'm bringing back bad memories of your application for HSMP. I totally agree that it makes no sense in rejecting an application just because you chose to do an MEng degree instead of a BEng.

The MEng is after all inclusive of a 3-year BEng and only the high achievers are given an option of studying the 4th year. If person A decides to end the programme after 3 years for a BEng, then that person qualifies for the English Language requirement. However, if person B decides to study an extra year for an MEng, then that person suddenly ceases qualifying for the English Language requirement despite having followed the exact same programme as person A for the first 3 years of study. This doesn't sound logical, as it's essentially penalising those high achievers for choosing to take the option of studying an extra year subsequent to the first 3 years of study.

Did you manage to convince them, or did you end up having to do the IELTS in the end?

[alientrader]

they are really stupid. HO is going mad, kick out and reject as many non-europeans as possible, this is Liam byrne's new directive.

[intalex]

Option 2:
Send in a fresh application and make sure that the letter from uni is properly constructed to contain all relevant info

I have been putting on hold my application because I also did an MEng degree and am worried to see that applicants with MEng have been turned down for "not meeting" the English Language requirement. However, I have obtained a letter from my university faculty confirming the following points about an MEng degree:-

(i) MEng is a 4-year combined Bachelors/Masters degree which one can enroll into upon completion of A-Levels;
(ii) MEng students follow the exact same programme during their first 3 years as BEng students;
(iii) All students have the option to end their study at the end of 3 years and obtain a BEng, whereas only the high achievers during the first 3 years are offered the option to study the extra year for an MEng; and
(iv) Only one degree certificate is issued upon completion of the MEng programme, although the programme is fully inclusive of a Bachelors degree.

Anyone know if this would work, or would there still be chances of being turned down on the English Language requirement? Is there anyone within the HSMP team that I can check this with beforehand?

Ideally, I wouldn't want to wait for Tier 1 to go live in my country (in Africa); I would prefer to get the HSMP approval letter soon and then apply for the EC under HSMP/Tier 1 whenever I'm ready to move to the UK (within 6 months of the approval letter of course).

[purplepple]

Just submit an IELTS certificate to meet the English language requirement.

[intalex]

Just submit an IELTS certificate to meet the English language requirement.

I would, but I haven't done the test and it is not something I can fit into my schedule over the next couple of months. Hence, I'd rather wait for Tier 1, but would still prefer to get some clarification from the HSMP policy makers over this grey area.

I'm trying to understand whether applicants with an MEng degree have been turned down because:
(i) the caseworkers have been unaware that an MEng is a 4-year degree inclusive of a Bachelor of Engineering degree; or
(ii) the caseworkers have been aware that an MEng is a 4-year degree inclusive of a Bachelor of Engineering degree, and still decided to turn down the application because of a lack of a separate Bachelor degree certificate.

If it's because of (i), then my letter would be sufficient. If it's because of (ii), then I'd rather wait for Tier 1.

[intalex]

I've decided to take a risk and submitted my HSMP application, placing all my confidence on the letter from my university faculty which describes the content of an MEng degree (see my post above for details of the letter).

Hopefully the letter will make it difficult for the caseworker to turn down my application, although I'm also ready for rejection (and wait for Tier 1) if that is what will happen.

[intalex]

I am pleased to announce that my risk has paid off, and I have today received my approval letter !!!

[niw2]

How puzzling that the University does not simply make this degree programme a "bachelors with honours" course. It is, after all, a bachelors-level programme with certain exclusive papers added to it. Naming it a "Masters" degree simply confuses people down the track, or makes them highly suspicious, either of which would seem to apply to the HSMP team in this case.

I myself have two university bachelors degrees and have never encountered or heard of a course being named a "Masters" programme when it is, in reality, a "bachelors degree with extras". I am not at all surprised that the HSMP team were unfamiliar with your circumstances.

Despite that, I agree that there appears to be a gaping policy hole here.

[intalex]

How puzzling that the University does not simply make this degree programme a "bachelors with honours" course. It is, after all, a bachelors-level programme with certain exclusive papers added to it. Naming it a "Masters" degree simply confuses people down the track, or makes them highly suspicious, either of which would seem to apply to the HSMP team in this case.

I have never encountered or heard of a course being named a "Masters" programme when it is, in reality, a "bachelors degree with extras".

1. The MEng degree is based on British curriculum, so it can hardly be that confusing for the Home Office.
2. It is not just a Bachelors degree with some extras; the only difference between the 4th year of an MEng and an MSc is that the MEng doesn't necessarily specialise you in any particular field whereas the MSc does, and that the MEng is condensed into 9 months while the MSc lasts 12 months.

Otherwise you select course modules from the same pool as MSc students do, and you can select a variety of course modules from a much larger pool since you are not restricted to a specific area of specialisation. You also do an intensive research project in both degrees, so technically, it is a Masters degree, not merely a Bachelors with extras. The problem is not with Bachelors/Masters classification of the degree, but rather with the lack of knowledge over the content of an MEng degree amongst caseworkers, which I have shown can be addressed using the kind of letter which I managed to get from my university faculty.

This doesn't help any future applicants, as HSMP has now been phased out and Tier 1 has sealed up the grey area surrounding this matter.