Self-assessment statement for naturalisation application

[Dawie]

Interesting query I have about my naturalisation application:

In the guidance notes it says that if you are self-employed you should provide a self-assessment statement to show that you are up to date with your tax payments. However it is not clear if this also applies to people who are directors of their own limited companies. Under the employment section of the application form it asks to check some boxes asking if you are an employee, self-employed or a director of a limited company.

This is somewhat confusing because for tax purposes, being self-employed and being the director of your own limited company ARE NOT the same thing. However I am not sure if the Home Office is of the same opinion, hence my question about whether or not the director of a limited company should also supply a self-assessment statement despite the guidance notes only saying someone who is self-employed should supply one.

Anyone know?

[Christophe]

If I were in the position you describe, I'd supply the self-assessment statement anyway. Does that present any difficulties?

[Dawie]

If I were in the position you describe, I'd supply the self-assessment statement anyway. Does that present any difficulties?

No, just the hassle of organising one in time for my appointment with the NCS at my local borough.

[ravindra.tummuru]

Hi Dawie,

I am exactly in the same situation as you (I.e. I am a Limited Company Director and my accountant run PAYE for me). I have also got P60 & payslips.


If I able to get my self-assessment statement before my NCS Bracknell appointment I am happy to enclose.



So could you please let me know whether I (as a Director with PAYE arrangements) need to supply "self-assessment statement" or not?



Thanks in advance for your help.

Cheers
Ravindra

[SYH]

Directors do indeed do self assessment forms
In fact that is in your best interest since you would be hard pressed to get documentation elsewhere about your income activities

[ravindra.tummuru]

Thanks for the reply.

Please see the extract from page 28 of 36 in Guide AN(AFD)

SELF-EMPLOYED APPLICANTS
If you do not pay tax through Pay As You Earn (PAYE) arrangements, we require
• The most recent HM Revenue & Customs Self Assessment Statement of Account

So my understanding is that Self Assessment Statement need to be supplied only if a SELF-EMPLOYED APPLICANT do not pay tax through Pay As You Earn (PAYE) arrangements.

I am bit confused! with the information in the gudie and unable to make a clear conclusion to suppy or not.

Thanks
Ravindra

[SYH]

What is so confusing
if you are self employed you must submit
the corollary is not if you are not self employed, you must not submit it

submit the self assessment if it helps to show your income status
as a director of ltd, i presume you paid yourself in salary the minimum due to nic, not very impressive in terms of income
but you probably distributed a dividend to minimize taxes which gives you something to show.

If you dont want to submit the self assesment the submit the p60 and the dividend statement but all this worry about whether you can or not is just bollocks.
submit or do not submit, it is up to you, ho will take whatever evidence you submit, you provide what gives you the best presentation of your case.

[ravindra.tummuru]

Thanks for the reply but let me conclude this way:-

1) As I have PAYE arrangements I have employee status - So P60 need to be submitted.

2) As I am the Director of my LTD company with PAYE arrangements I will not be treated as a "SELF-EMPLOYED" - Do you agree!

3) Does a Director of a Limited Company need to submit Self-Assessment statement?

Thanks
Ravindra

[OL7MAX]

There seems to be some confusion between ownership and being the director of a LTD company. They are not the same thing. Employees are sometimes elevated to directorships and, in fact, directors are often recruited to boards. A directorship can be a salaried position and subject to a contract and a director can be demoted back to a non-directorial position. Conversely, you can own a company and not be a director.

However, if you own the company ... you are self-employed (own as in "controlling interest", not 1.57 shares). That applies even if you aren't a director of the company.

Are you eligible for dividends in this company you own (whether you've taken them or not)? If you are then you are self-employed even if you have another full time salaried job that you attend as an employee

[SYH]

Thanks for the reply but let me conclude this way:-

1) As I have PAYE arrangements I have employee status - So P60 need to be submitted.

2) As I am the Director of my LTD company with PAYE arrangements I will not be treated as a "SELF-EMPLOYED" - Do you agree!

3) Does a Director of a Limited Company need to submit Self-Assessment statement?

Thanks
Ravindra

You don't need to do anything

[ravindra.tummuru]

Employed or self-employed? is NOT so straight forwad unless you are expert in this subject matter.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pdfs/ir56.htm#4

I have spoken with my accountant and decided to submit most recent self-assessment statement.

[SYH]

Thats what I suggested you do, you just wanted someone to tell you what to do.

[OL7MAX]

Wow, despite my propensity for talking a lot I managed to say it in less words than hmrc.gov.uk!

(That's possibly because the hmrc link is not really specific to the LTD company related question)

[SYH]

I dont ol7max, I think ravinda made it more complicated form himself. His question focused on whether he could submit sa form despite not being self employed in his more narrow definition of the word
Somehow he took it to mean that if not self employed, dont submit sa form. You focused on the scope of self employed to include directors who own the ltd companies. In any case, the most simple test would have been, if HMRC has asked you to do self assessment, you must submit the sa form.
You are always welcome to submit whatever evidence that serves your case if you are doing a self assessment, you can submit whehter the application requires you to do it or not

I just found this under hsmp but I think it will be useful for naturlisation.
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... c&start=20

[ravindra.tummuru]

Can we determine what to submit based on the selection/s for Section 3.2 rather than determining my or one's employment position (as at this moment I am more concerned with what to submit based on the selection /s in Section 3.2).

As per my understanding

If you tick

An Employee

attach

recent P60

(But they will be happy to see copies of all other P60s if you have them)

If you tick

A Business Partner

attach

The most recent HM Revenue & Customs Self Assessment Statement of Account

or

Evidence from the Inland Revenue confirming payment of tax over the relevant period.

If you tick

Self-Employed

attach

The most recent HM Revenue & Customs Self Assessment Statement of Account

or

Evidence from the Inland Revenue confirming payment of tax over the relevant period.

If you tick

A Director

and do not pay all the tax through PAYE then attach

The most recent HM Revenue & Customs Self Assessment Statement of Account.

Attach combination of the above documents if you tick combination of the options (Ex: 1. An Employee & A Director 2. An Employee, A Director & Self-Employed 3. An Employee, A Director, A Business Partner & Self-Employed

[SYH]

Good for you that you broke it down to something you are comfortable with. Hope you are happy now

[ravindra.tummuru]

Thanks a lot OL7MAX & SYH for all your advise.

Yesterday I have received CEREMONY INVITATION LETTER from my local council.



Cheers
Ravindra

[SYH]

Lucky you
And what did you end up submitting as your evidence?

[ravindra.tummuru]

As i mentioned in the previous reply I had submitted P60s & Self-Assessment statement for the status of an Employee & a Director of a LTD company.