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Asikk
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Post by Asikk » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:16 am

Hello everyone, I am sorry in advance if my post will seem not in place (just direct me to the right place, please) but I have few questions to all you experienced people :)

I am an EEA national. My non-EEA husband and me will very soon be travelling to the UK on EEA1. It will already be one month after issuing our EEA1 and while being there in the UK we will be applying for EEA2. Since we will have only 4,5 month before our EEA1 expires I am afraid we may have problems with providing evidence. I am not so sure if I will get job so soon. But this is not my only concern. In December we would like to travel for Christmas to my country but I don't know when to apply for EEA2. Is there any deadline for the application (e.g. 3 weeks before EEA 1 expires?). Has anyone supplied the UKBA with more evidence during the process of application?

vinny
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Post by vinny » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:30 am

I think that you mean an EEA family permit rather than EEA 1, for your non-EEA husband.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:49 pm

You can apply for a Residence Card (using EEA2) any time you qualify, even after the EEA Family Permit expires.

There are several ways to exercise treaty rights. Employment is just one of them. You can also be a job seeker or self-sufficient (living off savings or your partners salary).

Asikk
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Post by Asikk » Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:47 pm

vinny wrote:I think that you mean an EEA family permit rather than EEA 1, for your non-EEA husband.
Yes of course I meant EEA family permit for my non-EU husband.
Jambo wrote:You can apply for a Residence Card (using EEA2) any time you qualify, even after the EEA Family Permit expires.

There are several ways to exercise treaty rights. Employment is just one of them. You can also be a job seeker or self-sufficient (living off savings or your partners salary).
Of course I CAN, but if my husbands family permit will expire, he will not be illegal there by any chance?
If I am a job seeker and I live from my husband's salary, will I not be required to provide evidence for self-sufficiency? Is there any salary/ savings requirement which allows them to assume that it is enough to live in the UK without being employed? I'm asking because on our arrival I don't want to take up ANY available job for the sake of being 'qualified', I want to search for long-term employment, most probably in my profession and this may take even more than the time of our Family Permit. If my husband stays with me in the UK when his FP expires, and we apply, will they not disqualify him on the spot, or what's worse, deport him?

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Post by Jambo » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:00 pm

Asikk wrote: Of course I CAN, but if my husbands family permit will expire, he will not be illegal there by any chance?
No. Under the EEA regulations, if you exercise treaty rights, your husband has automatic right of residence. Residence documentation (EEA Family Perimt. Residence Card etc) are just confirmation of this automatic right and it is not mandatory to hold one.
If I am a job seeker and I live from my husband's salary, will I not be required to provide evidence for self-sufficiency? Is there any salary/ savings requirement which allows them to assume that it is enough to live in the UK without being employed? I'm asking because on our arrival I don't want to take up ANY available job for the sake of being 'qualified', I want to search for long-term employment, most probably in my profession and this may take even more than the time of our Family Permit. If my husband stays with me in the UK when his FP expires, and we apply, will they not disqualify him on the spot, or what's worse, deport him?
You can be a job seeker or self-sufficient. There is no minimum threshold to meet. As long as you can live without needing benefits, that would be acceptable. It would depend on your particular case. The cost of a family of 6 children living in central London is not the same of a couple living in rural Wales.
Even if the RC application is refused, your husband would not get deported. Worst case, you just reapply.

askmeplz82
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Post by askmeplz82 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:07 pm

Asikk wrote:
vinny wrote:I think that you mean an EEA family permit rather than EEA 1, for your non-EEA husband.
Yes of course I meant EEA family permit for my non-EU husband.
Jambo wrote:You can apply for a Residence Card (using EEA2) any time you qualify, even after the EEA Family Permit expires.

There are several ways to exercise treaty rights. Employment is just one of them. You can also be a job seeker or self-sufficient (living off savings or your partners salary).
Of course I CAN, but if my husbands family permit will expire, he will not be illegal there by any chance?
If I am a job seeker and I live from my husband's salary, will I not be required to provide evidence for self-sufficiency? Is there any salary/ savings requirement which allows them to assume that it is enough to live in the UK without being employed? I'm asking because on our arrival I don't want to take up ANY available job for the sake of being 'qualified', I want to search for long-term employment, most probably in my profession and this may take even more than the time of our Family Permit. If my husband stays with me in the UK when his FP expires, and we apply, will they not disqualify him on the spot, or what's worse, deport him?

Yes UK HOME Office ( Border force ) doesn't bother if your husband ( NON EU ) working or not working but EU national ( You )

can exercising Treaty rights' in the UK....... in many ways

employed or self-employed; or
studying; or
economically self- sufficient (meaning that you have sufficient funds to support you without requiring public funds); or
a jobseeker; or

If student or economically self sufficient both you and your husband must also have private health insurance. Please take the necessary step very carefully

They will not deport him don't worry because he is family member of EU national

Asikk
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Post by Asikk » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:12 pm

askmeplz82 wrote:
Asikk wrote:
vinny wrote:I think that you mean an EEA family permit rather than EEA 1, for your non-EEA husband.
Yes of course I meant EEA family permit for my non-EU husband.
Jambo wrote:You can apply for a Residence Card (using EEA2) any time you qualify, even after the EEA Family Permit expires.

There are several ways to exercise treaty rights. Employment is just one of them. You can also be a job seeker or self-sufficient (living off savings or your partners salary).
Of course I CAN, but if my husbands family permit will expire, he will not be illegal there by any chance?
If I am a job seeker and I live from my husband's salary, will I not be required to provide evidence for self-sufficiency? Is there any salary/ savings requirement which allows them to assume that it is enough to live in the UK without being employed? I'm asking because on our arrival I don't want to take up ANY available job for the sake of being 'qualified', I want to search for long-term employment, most probably in my profession and this may take even more than the time of our Family Permit. If my husband stays with me in the UK when his FP expires, and we apply, will they not disqualify him on the spot, or what's worse, deport him?

Yes UK HOME Office ( Border force ) doesn't bother if your husband ( NON EU ) working or not working but EU national ( You )

can exercising Treaty rights' in the UK....... in many ways

employed or self-employed; or
studying; or
economically self- sufficient (meaning that you have sufficient funds to support you without requiring public funds); or
a jobseeker; or

If student or economically self sufficient both you and your husband must also have private health insurance. Please take the necessary step very carefully

They will not deport him don't worry because he is family member of EU national
First of all, thank you g for guys for a quick response. With this automatic right to reside I am a lill bit confused because why then the Family Permit is issued for only 6 months? Is it because during that period we have to travel together to UK? Where does it say that he can reside? (any online document you can direct me to? I'd be glad) What about his right to work? Because I understand that if we do not apply during those 6 months of FP and his FP expires the employer may automatically dismiss him, right? And, on the other hand if we apply within those 6 months his application will be 'under process' so he is entitled to work legally?

By the way, just in case we need to take any private health insurance, do you happen to know any trusted organisation in the UK?

One more thing came to my mind. I have read somewhere that EU national must exercise the Treaty Rights for at least 6 months before he/she can show that he/she is a 'qualified person', please correct me if I am wrong.

askmeplz82
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Post by askmeplz82 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:25 pm

First of all, thank you g for guys for a quick response. With this automatic right to reside I am a lill bit confused because why then the Family Permit is issued for only 6 months? Is it because during that period we have to travel together to UK? Where does it say that he can reside? (any online document you can direct me to? I'd be glad) What about his right to work? Because I understand that if we do not apply during those 6 months of FP and his FP expires the employer may automatically dismiss him, right? And, on the other hand if we apply within those 6 months his application will be 'under process' so he is entitled to work legally?

By the way, just in case we need to take any private health insurance, do you happen to know any trusted organisation in the UK?

One more thing came to my mind. I have read somewhere that EU national must exercise the Treaty Rights for at least 6 months before he/she can show that he/she is a 'qualified person', please correct me if I am wrong.[/quote]

=========================================

some employers are reluctant to hire someone solely on EEA family permit until they get their residence card, as the latter is valid 5 years as against 6 months. I know neither FP nor RC is legally required, but you can understand their nervousness when they can be fined up to £10k for hiring an illegal.

health Insurance try WPA ( very cheap and they are comprehensive )

Well 3 months is enough but 6 months Very good. Really it doesn't matter as long you can show you have a valid job in the UK and paying TAX

Asikk
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Post by Asikk » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:51 pm

askmeplz82 wrote:(...)I know neither FP nor RC is legally required, but you can understand their nervousness when they can be fined up to £10k for hiring an illegal.
Why employers should be nervous if my husband has the right to reside and work in the UK? I know that in some cases they ask the employee for some proof that he has the right to work, but if our FP expires and we still will not be applying for RC then how else can we proof his rights? Are there any legal documents stating clearly that non-EU spouse can legally reside and work when his EU spouse is living with him in the same country?

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:59 pm

Asikk wrote:
askmeplz82 wrote:(...)I know neither FP nor RC is legally required, but you can understand their nervousness when they can be fined up to £10k for hiring an illegal.
Why employers should be nervous if my husband has the right to reside and work in the UK? I know that in some cases they ask the employee for some proof that he has the right to work, but if our FP expires and we still will not be applying for RC then how else can we proof his rights? Are there any legal documents stating clearly that non-EU spouse can legally reside and work when his EU spouse is living with him in the same country?
Sure but how would you prove that - with your passports and marriage certificate? Employers are not experts in recognising documents. That's why they would like to see an official approval by an official UK institution.

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Post by Jambo » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:08 pm

The EEA Family Permit is an Entry Clearance. Its main purpose is to allow the holder to board a flight and enter the UK. It is valid for 6 months as you are expected to enter the UK within that period.

If you live in the UK as a family member of EU national, you can apply for a Residence Card. It will make your life simpler.

It is not difficult to be a qualified person. You can always start as a self sufficient (with health insurance) and once you find employment stop the health insurance. You are a qualified person the day you exercise treaty rights. There is no 6 months rule.

See here about your rights in the UK - Rights and responsibilities.

Asikk
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Post by Asikk » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:42 pm

Jambo wrote: Sure but how would you prove that - with your passports and marriage certificate? Employers are not experts in recognising documents. That's why they would like to see an official approval by an official UK institution.
That is why I am asking you guys is there any other way we can prove that even when the FP expires he has a full right to reside and work in the UK.
If you live in the UK as a family member of EU national, you can apply for a Residence Card. It will make your life simpler.

It is not difficult to be a qualified person. You can always start as a self sufficient (with health insurance) and once you find employment stop the health insurance. You are a qualified person the day you exercise treaty rights. There is no 6 months rule.
That is what we are going to to - apply for Residence Card by EEA2 application. But i was not sure what happens to us when our FP expires. Now, thank to you, I know that we don't have to apply within these 6 months of FP because I thought this is the time when my husband can be with me in the UK and after expiring the FP he has to go back.

Yes, you are right Jumbo.
I have read all the official information on the UKBA site. Unfortunately, only here I can ask how it works in practice.
But somewhere I also read that EU national can be in another EU country up to three months without work. And then what? What if I still after three months will be without job? Does it affect application? Does UKBA somehow checks how long the EU national was not working? (I know these questions may seem silly but unfortunately this is what happens when you do something for the first time ;) :)

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:55 pm

The first 3 months are without restrictions at all. After that there are requirements to meet (such as health insurance if not working). If you wish, you can apply for Residence Card the day you land in the UK, a month later or a year later. It doesn't matter. Naturally, it would be easier for your partner to find a job with a long term "visa" than 6 months one or no visa (even if legally he is not required to have one).

Once he applies for a Residnece Card, he will get in a few weeks Certificate of Application (CoA) which is a acknowledgment letter. The letter would confirm his right to work until a decision is made. It is valid for 6 months.

Asikk
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Post by Asikk » Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:09 pm

If husbands of EU nationals have a full right to reside and work in the UK, why then anyone bothers to make those RCs? I guess that either because employers need a proof of them being on legal terms or because of free movement within Europe...

askmeplz82
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Post by askmeplz82 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:19 pm

Jambo wrote:The EEA Family Permit is an Entry Clearance. Its main purpose is to allow the holder to board a flight and enter the UK. It is valid for 6 months as you are expected to enter the UK within that period.

If you live in the UK as a family member of EU national, you can apply for a Residence Card. It will make your life simpler.

It is not difficult to be a qualified person. You can always start as a self sufficient (with health insurance) and once you find employment stop the health insurance. You are a qualified person the day you exercise treaty rights. There is no 6 months rule.

See here about your rights in the UK - Rights and responsibilities.
OK in this case if you can find a health insurance less then 6 months you will be very very lucky

Cheap one minimum 1 yr contract and expensive one i guess 6 months

askmeplz82
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Post by askmeplz82 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:31 pm

Asikk wrote:If husbands of EU nationals have a full right to reside and work in the UK, why then anyone bothers to make those RCs? I guess that either because employers need a proof of them being on legal terms or because of free movement within Europe...
Well because they are scared

back in 2009 my employer asked me not to come to work even though he knew i was married to an EU national who was working in the UK . But he needed some proof. People working for UK border force regularly visit companies across the UK to check the status of the employee working there

But was lucky got COA ( for EEA2 ) in 1 month time. SO i was out of work for 2 weeks only

askmeplz82
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Post by askmeplz82 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:43 pm

Asikk wrote:If husbands of EU nationals have a full right to reside and work in the UK, why then anyone bothers to make those RCs? I guess that either because employers need a proof of them being on legal terms or because of free movement within Europe...
Well because they are scared

back in 2009 my employer asked me not to come to work even though he knew i was married to an EU national who was working in the UK . But he needed some proof. People working for UK border force regularly visit companies across the UK to check the status of the employee working there

But was lucky got COA ( for EEA2 ) in 1 month time. SO i was out of work for 2 weeks only

vinny
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Post by vinny » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:06 am

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Asikk
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Post by Asikk » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:23 am

...first 3 months are without restrictions...
First 3 months since we come to UK or since the date we got the EEA FP?

Can you guys tell me how I could be a self-sufficient person when I will be looking for a job at the same time and my husband will be working? He has to be regularly putting some amount of money into my account (or we can simply have joint-account) Is there any minimum that they consider enough for living for a month? How can then my husband write in the application that he is supporting me when actually it should be me who is "sponsoring him"/supporting him??

vinny
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Post by vinny » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:36 am

Self-sufficient (4(1)( c )) and jobseeker (6(4)) are slightly different. The former also requires 4(1)( c )(ii) comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the United Kingdom (15,16).
Last edited by vinny on Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Asikk
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Post by Asikk » Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:51 pm

vinny wrote:Self-sufficient (4(1)( c )) and jobseeker (6(4)) are slightly different. The former also requires 4(1)( c )(ii) comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the United Kingdom (15,16).
Yes I know they are different, but I have read on UKBA site that in many cases when being a jobseeker you will also have to prove ur self-suffieciency.

askmeplz82
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Post by askmeplz82 » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:23 pm

Asikk wrote:
vinny wrote:Self-sufficient (4(1)( c )) and jobseeker (6(4)) are slightly different. The former also requires 4(1)( c )(ii) comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the United Kingdom (15,16).
Yes I know they are different, but I have read on UKBA site that in many cases when being a jobseeker you will also have to prove ur self-suffieciency.
You can be either Job-Seeker or Self sufficient. If you are self-sufficient you need comprehensive insurance

but if you are looking for work/job seeker just keep all the papers, emails ( job applications, rejection letters ) in case UKBA ask for it later.

Asikk
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Post by Asikk » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:26 pm


but if you are looking for work/job seeker just keep all the papers, emails ( job applications, rejection letters ) in case UKBA ask for it later.
by the way, if UKBA asks for any documents during the process, the documents have to show current situaton or the situation "at the moment of application"? Can UKBA be checking status of a bank account (for example to check if a EEA national still has enough funds etc.) o any other facts during application process? If so, how?

askmeplz82
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Post by askmeplz82 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:09 pm

Asikk wrote:

but if you are looking for work/job seeker just keep all the papers, emails ( job applications, rejection letters ) in case UKBA ask for it later.


by the way, if UKBA asks for any documents during the process, the documents have to show current situaton or the situation "at the moment of application"? Can UKBA be checking status of a bank account (for example to check if a EEA national still has enough funds etc.) o any other facts during application process? If so, how?
If you are economically self-sufficient, you need to supply evidence of comprehensive sickness insurance for yourself and any family members included in your application. You also need to supply evidence of funds sufficient to maintain yourself and any family members included in your application during the time you intend to reside on this basis. These funds can come from the employment or self-employment of any of your family members legally working and residing in the UK with you. Documentary evidence of their employment or funds should be supplied.

So basically if you are an EU national excising treaty right as a self sufficient your NON EU husband/wife can provide proof that he/she is helping you

Funds can be either in EU national or NON-eu national Bank account

If it's in NON-EU national account then he/she should transfer some money every month to EU national Bank account

or

open a Joint Bank account so EU national can have access to those fund


Situation at the moment of application.

Asikk
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Post by Asikk » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:01 am

Hey I've got few more questions:

1)How else, apart from rent agreement, can we prove that we have establish the household?

2)So to open an account in a bank, is it necessary to a have rent agreement with both of names on it?

3)What documents we have to provide in a bank to open a
a) joint account
b) separate accounts

4)Do we have to pay council tax not to have problems with UKBA? (I'm asking because we have tried to arrange a room but most of the owners don't want to give rent agreement because it goes with council tax; and when the council tax is included in bills, the rent is very expensive for a couple)

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