EEA2 Refused. Make sure you have joint bank accounts if SS!

[Londonguy79]

Hi,
Ok yes I found it... I agree its not very comprehensive!

I am not sure how I would word a complaint correctly. I will ask the Lawyer today to help me write a complaint to the email address.

Yes I did make notes of the points you made. Yes I definitely agree its ridiculous! bureaucracy (or possibly incompetence ) at its finest I think !

Thanks everyone for the advice so far. I will update this thread once I speak to the lawyer today.

Wish me good luck

Londonguy.

[vinny]

The lack of joint bank accounts shouldn't be an issue, as the EEA national may rely on the resources of family members (4(2), 4(3), 4(4)).

However, it's more complicated.

Unfortunately, the non-EAA family members cannot work before the EEA national is a qualified person (71).

Put another way, the right of residence of the family member is premised upon the Union citizen being able, separately, to satisfy the requirement of self-sufficiency.

So, in the case of self-sufficiency, you may initially work if you had sufficient resources without working!

See also EU right of residence where a marriage ends plus source of self sufficiency > Kuldip Singh C‑218/14

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Except in the first 3 months when there is no requirement for the EU citizen to be a qualified person.

[million111]

Please give me the email address for HO. My application is more than 6mths. Thanks

[wiggsy]

Hi,
Thanks very much for the replies!

If I appeal and keep my passport and go on holiday the only think I am not sure of is how do I get back into the UK?

They will ask how I am living here. My old tier one has expired. I cant exactly tell them to let me in as a tourist...


Londonguy

It would be a personal decision as to whether you chose to travel or not. Some might be inclined to wait unit the appeal is resolved. I would certainly recommend waiting if you were a visa national.

At arrival at the border, you would simply state that your wife is exercising treaty rights and evidence that there and then if required.

Correct me if i am wrong here... but: when his wife leaves the country, she is allowed to reenter for up to three months with her entire family? or is there a waiting period before the three months restarts?

[this is without being SS, or employed / student etc..

[Londonguy79]

Hi Everyone,
Can I apply for ILR instead of the EEA? I would easily get the ILR now because I did apply for it last year however on the old rules where you couldnt be out of the UK for more then 6 months over the five years however now you can be out for 6 months for every year.

Or can I not apply now because technically I have not had a visa from 30th April 2013 (when my Tier One expired) until now (When my EEA was refused) when I applied for the EEA however my Tier one was valid??

I have passed the life in the UK test and have been in the UK since 2005. I really wish I had applied for ILR instead of this EEA !!!!

Is there any grace period?? Or am I now an overstayer and can not apply for ILR?

Thank you,

Londonguy.

[jutt_don]

im disturbing you agian for my EEA2 application im in a bit of trouble with the documents im thinking to send.

my EU wife is working and im here in UK since 5th march 2013 on a 6 month FP. i just started work and didn't got any payslips yet but i got bank statements from 2 months at a same address as my wife. and we are sharing that property so we don't even have any bills on our names and no tenancy agreement.
so im gona send
1 my passport
2 my EU wife passport or ID
3 her pay slips and bank statements
4 my bank statement
5 mine and her national insurance number
6 our original marriage certificate and pictures fo marriage
is it enough or we must need bills or tenancy agreement
thanks in advance

[vinny]

im disturbing you agian for my EEA2 application im in a bit of trouble with the documents im thinking to send.

my EU wife is working and im here in UK since 5th march 2013 on a 6 month FP. i just started work and didn't got any payslips yet but i got bank statements from 2 months at a same address as my wife. and we are sharing that property so we don't even have any bills on our names and no tenancy agreement.
so im gona send
1 my passport
2 my EU wife passport or ID
3 her pay slips and bank statements
4 my bank statement
5 mine and her national insurance number
6 our original marriage certificate and pictures fo marriage
is it enough or we must need bills or tenancy agreement
thanks in advance

Please continue in previous thread.

[vinny]

Hi Everyone,
Can I apply for ILR instead of the EEA? I would easily get the ILR now because I did apply for it last year however on the old rules where you couldnt be out of the UK for more then 6 months over the five years however now you can be out for 6 months for every year.

Or can I not apply now because technically I have not had a visa from 30th April 2013 (when my Tier One expired) until now (When my EEA was refused) when I applied for the EEA however my Tier one was valid??

I have passed the life in the UK test and have been in the UK since 2005. I really wish I had applied for ILR instead of this EEA !!!!

Is there any grace period?? Or am I now an overstayer and can not apply for ILR?

Thank you,

Londonguy.

Tricky. If your EEA 2 was/is confirmed, then you are not an overstayer.

Unfortunately, Section 3C was not applicable and 245CD(i).

[Asikk]

The lack of joint bank accounts shouldn't be an issue, as the EEA national may rely on the resources of family members (4(2), 4(3), 4(4)).

However, it's more complicated.

Unfortunately, the non-EAA family members cannot work before the EEA national is a qualified person (71).

Put another way, the right of residence of the family member is premised upon the Union citizen being able, separately, to satisfy the requirement of self-sufficiency.

So, in the case of self-sufficiency, you may initially work if you had sufficient resources without working!

Vinny, I may not understand it, but how come non-EU spouse cannot work before EU-souse is a qualified person? We are moving to the UK with my non-EU spouse in 3 weeks from now (we got the EEA1 3 weeks before) and I was hoping my husband will start working first, meanwhile I will be searching for a job and hopefully after I find it we will apply for EEA2.

[vinny]

Click on the given links for more info.

It should be okay for you.

If you are a jobseeker, then you are a qualified person. Then your husband may work.

[vinny]

And anyone thinking of applying under Self-sufficient route where the non EEA person is the one working make sure you have joint bank accounts!!

It may be simplest to give them want they want (joint bank accounts) and reapply?

[augustine70]

hi londonguy,
Do you have any fund transferred from your account to your wife's account,
over 8 years period I had about 4/5 transactions transferred between our accounts I looked for this specific transactions and sent them along with a cover letter that we don't hold joint account but we share our financial obligations together and bla bla. Maybe you can say this in your appeal.
Going for holiday and coming back....well they will give you hard time, good luck with that but I would recommend not to. However if you decide to go for holiday just like EUsmileWEallsmile mentioned you better arm yourself with as many proofs needed.

[Londonguy79]

The lack of joint bank accounts shouldn't be an issue, as the EEA national may rely on the resources of family members (4(2), 4(3), 4(4)).

However, it's more complicated.

Unfortunately, the non-EAA family members cannot work before the EEA national is a qualified person (71).

Put another way, the right of residence of the family member is premised upon the Union citizen being able, separately, to satisfy the requirement of self-sufficiency.

So, in the case of self-sufficiency, you may initially work if you had sufficient resources without working!

Hey Vinny I dont know what you mean? I was working on a Tier One then I decided to swap to EEA.

The UKBA said it was refused only because we didnt have a joint bank account. Shouldnt the appeal be as simple as here we now have joint bank accounts please approve the RC?


Cheers,

Londonguy.

[pennylessinindia]

The lack of joint bank accounts shouldn't be an issue, as the EEA national may rely on the resources of family members (4(2), 4(3), 4(4)).

However, it's more complicated.

Unfortunately, the non-EAA family members cannot work before the EEA national is a qualified person (71).

Put another way, the right of residence of the family member is premised upon the Union citizen being able, separately, to satisfy the requirement of self-sufficiency.

So, in the case of self-sufficiency, you may initially work if you had sufficient resources without working!

Hey Vinny I dont know what you mean? I was working on a Tier One then I decided to swap to EEA.

The UKBA said it was refused only because we didnt have a joint bank account. Shouldnt the appeal be as simple as here we now have joint bank accounts please approve the RC?


Cheers,

Londonguy.

Joint bank accounts are not required this is a spurious reason to refuse. If it were a reason to refuse then opening one after the event is not the correct way as appeals are based on the situation that was at the time of the application. If a joint account was a real reason then you would reapply with a joint account and that should be it.

why not email M Clark thanking for speedy reply and say you believe that there has been an error and that the only reason for not granting the application was that you did not submit a joint bank account . As this is not shown in any of the documents you are at a loss as to why this was given as a reason. You could ask him/her to carry out a review and explain to you where in the guidance does it show that you need joint bank accounts

[Obie]

You are not required to have a joint account, but you are required to show that the resources you have, is accessible to the EU citizen. It is worth noting that it is the EU citizen that needs to show she is self sufficient.

It is arguable that prima facia, this is established if a person is living in a common household.

Self sufficient does not mean someone has access to a money, but whether there are is a regular source of income to cover rent, council tax, food and other utilities.

If this is established, by virtue of being in the same household, there is no need for there to be a joint account.

[Londonguy79]

Hi,
I tried emailing M Clarke she has an out of office on that she is on holidays and you shouldn't email her direct.

Yes I know it is not written in the guidance notes anywhere so it is very annoying. But this is the reason they have given so it doesnt leave me with much choice except to appeal and reapply at the same time.

Lawyers I have spoken to say its only on points based systems (Tier one etc) where the appeal can only use evidence that was submitted with the application. I have been told you can submit new evidence on an appeal for EEA.

I am planning on also reapplying at the same time as my appeal is open like Babs did and she had success.

I am just waiting another week before reapplying in case the reconsideration letter I sent to Liverpool comes good (I highly doubt it..)

Cheers,

Londonguy.

[vinny]

Lawyers I have spoken to say its only on points based systems (Tier one etc) where the appeal can only use evidence that was submitted with the application. I have been told you can submit new evidence on an appeal for EEA.

They are correct.

[Asikk]

(...)

Unfortunately, the non-EAA family members cannot work before the EEA national is a qualified person (71).

Vinny, where does it say that a non-EU cannot work before EEA NAtional is a qualified person?
Let's take an example, I (as a EU citizen) will start searching for a job in the very first days of the arrival in UK, and only then my husband (non-EU) can start his employment (if any) ?? So, in other words he cannot start employment when I am not doing anything (3 initial months), but if I choose to start exercising Treaty Rights from the very beginning, he can work, can't he?

[vinny]

Click on given links for more details.

A jobseeker is a qualified person.

[wiggsy]

Click on given links for more details.

A jobseeker is a qualified person.

@Asikk- They are also qualified during the first three months of residence. So the EEA's self sufficiency could be established via the spouse during this time (the CSI for the EEA can be covered by a non UK EHIC card (up until the point they decide to "remain in the UK").

[Asikk]

Click on given links for more details.

A jobseeker is a qualified person.

@Asikk- They are also qualified during the first three months of residence. So the EEA's self sufficiency could be established via the spouse during this time (the CSI for the EEA can be covered by a non UK EHIC card (up until the point they decide to "remain in the UK").

So, lets take an example that after landing with my husband in the UK, during those first three months I will travel to my country and back to UK, and still I am a qualified person even though I am not doing anything? My husband can work during those 3 months then, right? After that we will apply - let's say - me being self-sufficient or a jobseeker, so if my husband starts employment during those first 3 months, how will it influence our application for RC? UKBA is not checking him but me.

By the way what is CSI and UK EHIC Card?

[wiggsy]

Click on given links for more details.

A jobseeker is a qualified person.

@Asikk- They are also qualified during the first three months of residence. So the EEA's self sufficiency could be established via the spouse during this time (the CSI for the EEA can be covered by a non UK EHIC card (up until the point they decide to "remain in the UK").

So, lets take an example that after landing with my husband in the UK, during those first three months I will travel to my country and back to UK, and still I am a qualified person even though I am not doing anything? My husband can work during those 3 months then, right? After that we will apply - let's say - me being self-sufficient or a jobseeker, so if my husband starts employment during those first 3 months, how will it influence our application for RC? UKBA is not checking him but me.

Not quite... because until you establish that your qualified, your qualification will end when you leave.

(if you leave before establishing self sufficiency in the country etc - IE setting up home, and so on).

Dropping off non-EEA family members is mentioned in the ECI guidance.

See 2.18

but bear in mind: if he is legal in the country (which being married to an eea national its "hard" to prove against) as an exit from the UK doesnt necessarily end the residence for up to six months.

it really depends on how the home office sees the situation etc.

might well be worth lodging the eea2 BEFORE you leave the country though

[Asikk]

Not quite... because until you establish that your qualified, your qualification will end when you leave.

(if you leave before establishing self sufficiency in the country etc - IE setting up home, and so on).

How can I establish that I am qualified? For example, I will start seeking a job straight away by registering with the Job Centre and e-mailing employers (which I ve been doing since march, though). What about other requirements? What do we have to establish? Do we need to have a rental agreement or it is enough to have some proofs of address, like bank statements, or bills (e.g mobile)...?What else?[/b]

[wiggsy]

Not quite... because until you establish that your qualified, your qualification will end when you leave.

(if you leave before establishing self sufficiency in the country etc - IE setting up home, and so on).

How can I establish that I am qualified? For example, I will start seeking a job straight away by registering with the Job Centre and e-mailing employers (which I ve been doing since march, though). What about other requirements? What do we have to establish? Do we need to have a rental agreement or it is enough to have some proofs of address, like bank statements, or bills (e.g mobile)...?What else?[/b]

your registered as a job seeker...

get proof of address together ETC. I know lots of EEA's who live in hotels in stratford (because its cheaper than renting a flat ETC).

One of them has got his Russian G/F living with him and the fact its a hotel address had no impact on it.