EEA FP refused: Moscow

[a.s.b.o]

Now.

we received a response from the judge. Eurosceptics should be proud of their destructive work in placid brains of immigration judges. We got refused.

Refusal grounds are stupidly simple. The judge accepted

1. dependency out of choice, not necessity is within EEA 2006 remits
2. living under the same roof condition imposed by the UKBA is not within EEA 2006 remits
3. EEA citizen exercises his rights and therefore is a qualified person

HOWE-VA

1. EEA national put his mother on the title for HIS property in Russia.
2. Judge decides that she can potentially sell her 50% of the property and therefore, not dependent on the EEA national
3. evidence of consistent support to meet basic living conditions of the EEA FP applicant (mother) were not considered and not addressed.

I have an issue with this refusal. If I present evidence when the applicant is dependent on the EEA national since 2006, what the title got to do with MEETING ESSENTIAL LIVING CONDITION? And secondly, is judge allowed to examine hypothetical decisions, therefore discarding historic data of essential support?

Please commit to this thread with your comments. I really need some support right now. Thank you

[a.s.b.o]

ANYONE?

[a.s.b.o]

refusal wording

1. I am not persuaded by Mr xxxx claim that he is the exclusive beneficial owner of the two properties in xxxxx. The title documents before me show in unequivocal terms that Mrs xxxxx (non EEA parent) has a 50% interest in these properties which he himself valued at £xxxx.He did not dispute that she had a half interest. In assessing any dependency claim, the Appellants cannot disregard capital assets of this order. They must be taken to be in a position to dispose of them and to make use of the proceeds for their essential needs until the monies are exhausted. xxxx (EEA national) may well claim that in the event of a sale his mother will be obliged to make over her half of the proceeds to him, but that claim is not sustainable in light of the fact that she is on the title.

2. Mr xxx (EEA national) is correct in stating that because his parents are in the ascending line he does not have to show a dependency of necessity. If he chooses to make them his dependants and they do not wish to support themselves, even though they are well within working age, that is a matter between him and them.

3. I also accept Mr xxx (EEA national) submission that the fact that his parents are to live at a different address in UK from him does not have any bearing on whether they are his dependants.

4. Mrs xxxxx (non EEA parent) has spent some years working in UK and has evidently found life here congenial. This family have apparently made some astute property investments in xxxx. They cannot in those circumstances credibly make the claim that as a couple they are dependent on their son for their essential needs in light of those jointly owned properties. That conclusion is sustainable on Mrs xxxxx (non EEA parent) assets before one even looks at Mr xxxxx (non EEA parent) property in xxxx.

5. I find the Appellants have not proved on a balance of probabilities that they are their son's dependants.


WTF??????

I purchased all the properties. I paid with my money. I provided all the evidence of that. Can this fool speculate and whether this is legal at all???

thanks

[Amber]

refusal wording

1. I am not persuaded by Mr xxxx claim that he is the exclusive beneficial owner of the two properties in xxxxx. The title documents before me show in unequivocal terms that Mrs xxxxx (non EEA parent) has a 50% interest in these properties which he himself valued at £xxxx.He did not dispute that she had a half interest. In assessing any dependency claim, the Appellants cannot disregard capital assets of this order. They must be taken to be in a position to dispose of them and to make use of the proceeds for their essential needs until the monies are exhausted. xxxx (EEA national) may well claim that in the event of a sale his mother will be obliged to make over her half of the proceeds to him, but that claim is not sustainable in light of the fact that she is on the title.

2. Mr xxx (EEA national) is correct in stating that because his parents are in the ascending line he does not have to show a dependency of necessity. If he chooses to make them his dependants and they do not wish to support themselves, even though they are well within working age, that is a matter between him and them.

3. I also accept Mr xxx (EEA national) submission that the fact that his parents are to live at a different address in UK from him does not have any bearing on whether they are his dependants.

4. Mrs xxxxx (non EEA parent) has spent some years working in UK and has evidently found life here congenial. This family have apparently made some astute property investments in xxxx. They cannot in those circumstances credibly make the claim that as a couple they are dependent on their son for their essential needs in light of those jointly owned properties. That conclusion is sustainable on Mrs xxxxx (non EEA parent) assets before one even looks at Mr xxxxx (non EEA parent) property in xxxx.

5. I find the Appellants have not proved on a balance of probabilities that they are their son's dependants.


WTF??????

I purchased all the properties. I paid with my money. I provided all the evidence of that. Can this fool speculate and whether this is legal at all???

thanks

If you think the judge erred in law you can appeal to an upper tribunal.

[a.s.b.o]

Thank you.

i see speculations and failure to address the dependency test (in the spirit of dependency being a question of fact, not degree or the choice - RK (OFM – membership of household – dependency) India [2010] UKUT 421 (IAC) or Jia C-1/05 at para 43 and Lebon).

How do i frame my claims that appeal addressed none of the test but simply regurgitated UKBA conclusions (a regurgitation of shit is still shit)?

thank you

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

You might want to consider finding a solicitor with experience in this type of area.

[a.s.b.o]

You might want to consider finding a solicitor with experience in this type of area.

anything that strikes in this judgement at the outset?

[Mirabell]

You might want to consider finding a solicitor with experience in this type of area.

anything that strikes in this judgement at the outset?

ASBO I was reading the whole thread. Shocked. So sorry for you.

I'm about to start my saga.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

You might want to consider finding a solicitor with experience in this type of area.

anything that strikes in this judgement at the outset?

I find the laws being argued very complicated. I suspect that if you want to win, you will need somebody who can knows the case law very well and can untangle the arguments which that UKBA is making.

[a.s.b.o]

You might want to consider finding a solicitor with experience in this type of area.

anything that strikes in this judgement at the outset?

ASBO I was reading the whole thread. Shocked. So sorry for you.

I'm about to start my saga.

I am in academia and I am well used to see good and mediocre. I was shocked by the simplicity and lack of ability for complex analysis among the judiciary and immigration (up to this stage). it is scary that the world is full of ppl that do not contribute in any meaningful way, but simply eat, procreate and sh@t. and fill the positions they are hardly fit to fill. eugenics might have an appeal when you deal with stupidity.

on the other note, i do need advice from more experiences members on this forum regarding the

LATEST JUDGEMENTS ON DEPENDENCY OF EEA FP OR OFM. Thanks

[Obie]

If the judge failed to consider your mother under the provision in Regulation 8(2), then that is a material error of law.

If the judge state that your mum could sell her 50% share to pay for her need, that too is an error of law. That is as good as saying one can work, rather than depend on a family member, which brings into question whether he was assessing dependancy out of need or necessity.

if he fail to look at you mothers position comprehensively, and having considered the whole evidence and circumstance, determine with the fact of you mothers case, indicates that she cannot provide her basic need without the support she receives from you, then that is an error of law.

[a.s.b.o]

Thank you Obie

Would someone have a draft appeal document referring to a similar matter to be used as an example?

And secondly,

can someone speculate as to the apparent bluntness and consistent failure to assess EEA FP applications and instead, applying tests of dependency applicable to UKBA/UK legislation? Is this eurosceptics in action or is this a deliberate 'spanners in the works' approach adopted by the UK tribunals relating to the EEA cases? Something of the similar nature,

"The Home Secretary maintains there is no absolute right to family life in the UK and she will ask MPs to back her today by passing a parliamentary motion, pressuring judges to consider economic and public order before rights to family life - a right guaranteed under the European convention on human rights. In the interests of the economy or controlling migration or public order, those sorts of issues, the state has a right to qualify the right to a family life," Ms May told BBC's Andrew Marr on Sunday. If judges don't comply, the government will consider legislating changes."

http://www.channel4.com/news/immigratio ... ving-to-uk

[a.s.b.o]

I also consider complaining to the UN human rights committee of which UK is a signatory. I have exhausted complaints procedures with UKBA and the first tier of the tribunal. Delay is unduly and the application for EEA FP has been lodged last summer, a nearly a year ago. Can I rely on this in order to lodge the complaint without waiting for the leave to appeal which may take further few months?

thank you

[a.s.b.o]

Hi guys

we have been refused at the first-tier tribunal and were refused the permission to appeal to the uPPER tribunal. I very much doubt that anyone in that system sees any merit in the European law and judgement is politically, rather than legally-motivated.

in essence, have I exhausted uk-based avenues and if so, how can i take the matter to the European courts. If not, what other courts are in between uk-version of EEA legislation and its true nature (as applied by European courts)?

many thanks

[ukforever]

i think u better contact the europeen commission and lodge an official complaint,u will be looking at a long road ahead of hardship and stress...if u go that road,it could take up to 2 years or more for the court to decide..are you willing to have that fight now..??
i've been reading your story from a quite long time now and i've seen that u have been struggling to get the outcome u desired,but it's worth considering that it wouldn't be an easy task and i respect the fact that u are fighting for your right as an eu citizen and your right to bring your parents to the uk , nevertheless,in the eyes of the uk,its irrelevant and i wish that the europeen court will side in your favor if u get the chance to get your case to the ECJ.
i wish u good luck.

[ukforever]

you may consider and seek legal advice from an immigration solicitor/adviser who has experience in that field before doing anything,i could save you time and or going through hardship,or it might give you an insight to what to expect in the future about your case.

[vinny]

Hi guys

I am currently re-applying for the EEA FP. my parents are dependent on me and we have used to apply under direct dependent family members. we were refused. Now I am thinking if extended family members, based on their financial dependency, is easier to apply under. Can you share your perspective on this, if you got one?

many thanks, much appreciated

[Obie]

It is difficult to see how someone could fail in regards to dependancy for the purpose of Regulation 7, and succeed for the purpose of Regulation 8, when the test for dependency in Regulation 8 seems more stringent than regulation 8.

[obormot]

I understand you are in academia, and you hold EU (but not UK) citizenship? Did you think about the following way:
- Ask your parents to give you back their property rights for 50% of the apartment (say, by a gift)
- Take a leave and go for a sabbatical visit for at least a semester (better a year) to some EU (not UK) university
- Apply for your parents to join you there (not necessarily residence, might be just one-year visa)
- Bring them there to stay with you for a few months, and document well that they stay with you and that you maintain them
- Apply for EEA family permit for them to return with you to UK, and once they are there apply for EEA2 for them

[a.s.b.o]

Thank you all.

We have re-applied for the second time and got refusal again. The fun continues.

Firstly, my parents re-assigned me both properties by a deed of a gift. Now I own both properties, which I purchased with my own money. My parents live in one of them, paying me no rent. The second one generates rental income, which is a fully my income, comes into my account and is used to support my parents. I also live with my parents, in the same household, since August (full 3 months).

Secondly, the refusal. ECO accepts the transfer of ownerships and accept that they both live in the property fully owned by the EEA national. They do question, why the EEA national does not sell them. New requirements?! Secondly, they bring the error from last year - where I provided evidence of USD account and my funds which I made available to be used by them. They did not use it, I subsequently withdrew and took these USD assets to UK. They claim that these are the money the applicants (my parents) have and hide, giving them reasons to doubt whether our submitted documents are full and accurate. Thirdly, they highlight another fact from the last year application - the fact that my stepdad is a co-tenant in the social tenancy agreement in an apartment which the relatives of his late-wife own. They claim it to be an asset. Fourthly and lastly, they claim that 'there is no evidence that they are dependent on the EEA national out of necessity, and not of choice'. The last revelation just killed me and buried my belief in any improvement in UKBA associated with HO transfer. Same old, irrelevant shite.

Suggestions are highly sought. I am puzzled. Have some ideas and equally, concerns

1. My last encounter of first tier in Belfast made me doubt immigration judge's competencies. How can I take it to another jurisdiction?

2. what would better - a new application with a simple "CHOICE, NOT NECESSITY" or appeal?

Thank you

[Obie]

It may well be the case that you will have to depend on the FTT.

I can't honestly see an Entry Clearance willingly issuing a visa to your parent.

You have to resort to the tribunal, and if you are serious about getting them to join you, you may want to hire a competent legal barrister, to present and argue your case robustly.

[a.s.b.o]

Hi guys

thanks. I am prepared to fight till the end and in this vein, has re-applied, has been re-refused and am now in a position of getting a solicitor. Northern Ireland is a small pot and I meet one tomorrow to discuss the case. fingers crossed. Now, I have a question relating to fees.

What is the preferred/going approach to setting / discussing / formalising fees? Do we discuss set fees? Do we discuss hour sly rate or do we discuss dispersion sums - worst/best case scenario? And how do I document that to make sure not to hit an inflated bill at the end? AND WHAT IS THE GOING RATE (HIGH-LOW) FOR EEA FP APPLICATIONS IN UK? Thanks lads

[dalebutt]

Legal aid is still being offered in NI, you may wish to discuss with solicitor if he or she accepts legal aid.

[rosebead]

I don't know if it helps but earlier this year the CJEU further clarified what 'dependency' means through Case C-423/12 Flora May Reyes v. Migrationsverket - see here

[a.s.b.o]

I don't know if it helps but earlier this year the CJEU further clarified what 'dependency' means through Case C-423/12 Flora May Reyes v. Migrationsverket - see here

Thank you! a very sharp thinking and you have foreseen my question - whether there are any relevant changes in the field of EEA FP based on proving dependence. Does this enable me to say that EEA FP has been streamlined and made easier since this clarification? Is there evidence of that, or anything else can be useful in directing me?

Thanks a lot