GETTING DIVORCED FROM A BULGARIAN AND EEA4

[currahee]

Hi everyone,

First of all, I would like to thank you all for all your help.

I am Turkish and married to a Bulgarian lady who has a yellow card. She is employed here and we have been married for 2 years and 3 months and I have my residence card for only 1 month. Because she did not exercise the treaty rights here, my visa application was rejected and we applied for yellow card for her, it took ages for us to get it, then I applied for my visa and I only received it one month ago. Now we are having some serious problems, and she is thinking about leaving the UK. During my visa process I could not work because of not having a visa, she had break down, she studied and worked and she wants to be with her family in Bulgaria. I just got my visa, I am happy here and I have been in the UK for more than 6 years and I do not want to leave. She knows that I will lose my visa if we get divorce, or she stops exercising treaty rights and she doesn't want it. It is not like we are fighting or hate each other. She is just not happy here anymore. So she kind of ready to help me retain my visa. The question is how???

We have been living together since September 2010,when we applied for Certificate of Approval, then we got married May 2011. She got her yellow card November 2012 and I got my visa July 2013.

I read on some immigration solicitor websites that if you are a non-eea citizen married to eea citizen for 3 years and both partners work in the uk for at least 12 months, you can apply for EEA4.

1) Is my current visa EEA2 or BR5, because I remember my solicitor had applied for BR5 8 months ago. Or are these only the application form and either way you get the same visa?

2) Can I be eligible to apply for EEA4 because I am married to a Bulgarian who are not like the other EU citizens.

3) Does the marriage before visa count? Other word, we have been married for 2 years 3 months and I have just started working full-time. If I work for 12 month, am I going to be eligible for applying for EEA4.

4) For 12 moths, do we have to work for the same place or can we work for one place for 4 moths and stop working 1 month and work again 8 months to complete 12 months.

5)I have checked EEA4 form and there is a page for those who get divorced. If I get divorced before applying EEA4, will not I be illegal here and my visa be cancelled?

6)Will I need to prove that my wife worked here and exercised the treaty rights or need her passport after the divorce. Because in some cases partners would not help each other and give anything.

I know it is a long one but your help would be much appreciated.

Thank you all again.

Regards,

[Obie]

You do not qualify for PR, and will not be until at least 2016.

At this moment, you will be unable to retain right of residence, as you marriage has not lasted for 3 years.

It is therefore pointless for me to deal with the other matters.

[currahee]

Hi Obie,

Thank you for your reply.

Is that because my marriage before my visa doesn't count? Would you be able to explain how it work?

Thank you.

[askmeplz82]

Hi everyone,

First of all, I would like to thank you all for all your help.

I am Turkish and married to a Bulgarian lady who has a yellow card. She is employed here and we have been married for 2 years and 3 months and I have my residence card for only 1 month. Because she did not exercise the treaty rights here, my visa application was rejected and we applied for yellow card for her, it took ages for us to get it, then I applied for my visa and I only received it one month ago. Now we are having some serious problems, and she is thinking about leaving the UK. During my visa process I could not work because of not having a visa, she had break down, she studied and worked and she wants to be with her family in Bulgaria. I just got my visa, I am happy here and I have been in the UK for more than 6 years and I do not want to leave. She knows that I will lose my visa if we get divorce, or she stops exercising treaty rights and she doesn't want it. It is not like we are fighting or hate each other. She is just not happy here anymore. So she kind of ready to help me retain my visa. The question is how???

We have been living together since September 2010,when we applied for Certificate of Approval, then we got married May 2011. She got her yellow card November 2012 and I got my visa July 2013.

I read on some immigration solicitor websites that if you are a non-eea citizen married to eea citizen for 3 years and both partners work in the uk for at least 12 months, you can apply for EEA4.

1) Is my current visa EEA2 or BR5, because I remember my solicitor had applied for BR5 8 months ago. Or are these only the application form and either way you get the same visa?

2) Can I be eligible to apply for EEA4 because I am married to a Bulgarian who are not like the other EU citizens.

3) Does the marriage before visa count? Other word, we have been married for 2 years 3 months and I have just started working full-time. If I work for 12 month, am I going to be eligible for applying for EEA4.

4) For 12 moths, do we have to work for the same place or can we work for one place for 4 moths and stop working 1 month and work again 8 months to complete 12 months.

5)I have checked EEA4 form and there is a page for those who get divorced. If I get divorced before applying EEA4, will not I be illegal here and my visa be cancelled?

6)Will I need to prove that my wife worked here and exercised the treaty rights or need her passport after the divorce. Because in some cases partners would not help each other and give anything.

I know it is a long one but your help would be much appreciated.

Thank you all again.

Regards,

2, 5, If the European national leaves the UK, or the relationship breaks down, the family member will generally need to leave the UK.

In certain circumstances it may be possible for a family member to ‘retain’ a right of residence in the UK where the European national leaves the UK, or if the relationship breaks down.

the marriage or partnership lasted for at least three years before the break down;

and

the parties to the marriage had resided in the UK for at least one year during the duration of the marriage

so MAY 2014 it will be 3 yrs for you

1. UKBA requires family members of Romanian / Bulgarian nationals to submit an application using BR5 not EEA2 .

6 : 3 years minimum after marriage if you want to apply for ROR. Continuity of residence is not affected temporary absences from UK not exceeding a total of six months a year

it will be 1 year exercising treaty right in nov 2013 according to UKBA because she got her Yellow card in NOV 2012

so is she leave UK lets say after nov 2013 and you stay here. Can she exercise treaty right in another EU country until Nov 2014 ( time required to retain right of residence ) ? GURU can you answer this question.




I read in different forum a NON-EU national retained his right of residence although his spouse was living in the UK for 2 years 3 months.

How he retained right of residence?

- 2 years 3 months EU national working in the UK

- for next 9 month he showed Comprehensive health insurance and evidence then they were self sufficient by opening a Join Bank account and also also transferring some funds every month to the EU national Bank account

- NON-EU national was still getting letters, bank statement for EU national in the UK address ( although EU national left UK after 2 yrs 3 months )

When you apply for ROR after 3 years marriage still need all the documents and EU national Passport or ID card

[currahee]

Hi askmeplz82,

thank you so much for sparing your and replying me.

Yes, I will be married for 3 years in May 2014. So marriage before visa does count for this case.

Did you mean Nov 2013 for Yellow Card. Because she got her yellow card in Nov 2012, not 2013. Why Nov 2014?

1) So do I have the same visa as the other non-EEA national family members
of EEA nationals have, BR5 and EEA2 are just forms?

Will I have to be divorced before I apply for ROR? After the divorce, what happens if the spouse does not wanna give her passport and ID?

Thank you again, you know thing kind of things are very delicate and I am trying to get all the information I can get just to make sure.

Regards,

[askmeplz82]

Hi askmeplz82,

thank you so much for sparing your and replying me.

Yes, I will be married for 3 years in May 2014. So marriage before visa does count for this case.

Did you mean Nov 2013 for Yellow Card. Because she got her yellow card in Nov 2012, not 2013. Why Nov 2014?

1) So do I have the same visa as the other non-EEA national family members
of EEA nationals have, BR5 and EEA2 are just forms?

Will I have to be divorced before I apply for ROR? After the divorce, what happens if the spouse does not wanna give her passport and ID?

Thank you again, you know thing kind of things are very delicate and I am trying to get all the information I can get just to make sure.

Regards,

sorry it was NOV 2012 ( yellow card )

yes it's the same EEA2 or BR5 is your sticker like this? http://www.swedenabroad.com/SelectImage ... nceEEA.jpg


for ROR you need to show DEGREE ABSOLUTE or proof they have left the UK

[currahee]

yes, I have the same sticker.

So, what I need to do is at this point,

- My wife needs to continue working until the end of Nov 2013 to exercise treaty rights for 1 year. What happens if she stops working?

- Do I have to work for 1 year as well? In some web site, they say both partners have to be active. If so, do i need to stay married until I complete 1 year of working?

Sorry, I don't know what you mean by DEGREE ABSOLUTE?

Thanks

[askmeplz82]

yes, I have the same sticker.

So, what I need to do is at this point,

- My wife needs to continue working until the end of Nov 2013 to exercise treaty rights for 1 year. What happens if she stops working?

- Do I have to work for 1 year as well? In some web site, they say both partners have to be active. If so, do i need to stay married until I complete 1 year of working?

Sorry, I don't know what you mean by DEGREE ABSOLUTE?

Thanks

Is she stop working or lost her job then exercising treaty right by self sufficient or evidence that she is looking for work

if self sufficient ( need comprehensive insurance for both and evidence then you have sufficient fund in your or her account , I suggest joint bank account in this case )

Now it doesn't matter if you working or not But after 3 yrs marriage you need to be exercising treaty right if applying for ROR

check SECTION 4

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... /eea21.pdf

Degree absolute: https://www.gov.uk/divorce/apply-for-a-decree-absolute

[currahee]

In section 4. it asks

Have you been married for at least 3 years and lived in the UK for at least one of the three years?

Yes, I have, It is good for me. It doesn't say 'have you been married for 3 years after the visa?'


So if I work and if we have enough money (even only in my bank account, I do not wanna have a joint account with someone whom I am gonna get divorced), she does not have to work, she just needs an comprehensive health insurance, if i work, do i still need health insurance for myself? Because I will be surely working.

Thanks

[askmeplz82]

In section 4. it asks

Have you been married for at least 3 years and lived in the UK for at least one of the three years?

Yes, I have, It is good for me. It doesn't say 'have you been married for 3 years after the visa?'


So if I work and if we have enough money (even only in my bank account, I do not wanna have a joint account with someone whom I am gonna get divorced), she does not have to work, she just needs an comprehensive health insurance, if i work, do i still need health insurance for myself? Because I will be surely working.

Thanks

because There is no legal requirement for non-EEA direct family members of EEA who are exercising Treaty rights in the UK to obtain a residence card to confirm their right of residence in the UK. Any such non-EEA national applying for a residence card does so on an entirely voluntary basis.


YES for both ( comprehensive insurance )

You need to supply evidence of funds sufficient to maintain yourself and any family members included in your application during the time you intend to reside on this basis. These funds can come from the employment or self-employment of any of your family members legally working and residing in the UK with you. Documentary evidence of their employment or funds should be supplied.


4. (2)
For the purposes of paragraph (1)(c), where family members of the person concerned reside in the United Kingdom and their right to reside is dependent upon their being family members of that person—

(a) the requirement for that person to have sufficient resources not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the United Kingdom during his period of residence shall only be satisfied if his resources and those of the family members are sufficient to avoid him and the family members becoming such a burden;

(b) the requirement for that person to have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the United Kingdom shall only be satisfied if he and his family members have such cover


An EEA national can become self sufficient on the resources of any of its family members and even if she/he not working then any of its saving/bank balance can serve this purpose. For becoming self sufficient job income is not necessary. And there is no fixed amount as well

---------------------

HOME office rejected somebody application ; That guy applied for EEA2 through his wife with her exercising treaty rights as self sufficient.

this is what HOME office wrote to him

" Unfortunately in your application you have provided evidence that you are employed in the UK. Whilst providing bank statements to prove your own financial position, this does not accommodate the financial position of your EEA nation sponsor. For future applications this may be demonstrated by providing evidence that your EEA national spouse has full access to these funds and can therefore be considered self sufficent. This for example may be a joint bank account between yourself and the EEA National."



read more here

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... prehensive

[currahee]

Why can I not use NHS if work. We can be self sufficient and I still can work, so I pay NI contribution, my wife does not work, so she needs a comprehensive health insurance.

Please correct me if I am wrong somewhere.

I will remain married until the end of May 2013 when I will be married for 3 years.

Until then if my wife stops working, we will have to get health insurance for both of us, even if I work and will have to prove that we are self sufficient.

In June 2013 I can get divorced, and she may leave the UK. So I can apply for EEA4 (or EEA2, I dont know the difference). Will I apply for that after the divorce?

Here comes my main problem. If she leaves the country, how am I going to get her passport, ID, etc.

Thanks.

[askmeplz82]

Why can I not use NHS if work. We can be self sufficient and I still can work, so I pay NI contribution, my wife does not work, so she needs a comprehensive health insurance.

Please correct me if I am wrong somewhere.

I will remain married until the end of May 2013 when I will be married for 3 years.

Until then if my wife stops working, we will have to get health insurance for both of us, even if I work and will have to prove that we are self sufficient.

In June 2013 I can get divorced, and she may leave the UK. So I can apply for EEA4 (or EEA2, I dont know the difference). Will I apply for that after the divorce?

Here comes my main problem. If she leaves the country, how am I going to get her passport, ID, etc.

Thanks.

well that's the rule. UKBA require EU/NON_EU family members to have insurance

Without EU national ID or Passport it's not straightforward case. Home office may refuse you 99% but then again there is 70% chance if you have a lawyer he/she can argue that in the tribunal later.

Without ID or Passport it's better to send application through a solicitor

check here

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/IAC ... maica.html

[currahee]

Tribunal would be really difficult. I was checking EEA4 form and in section 4 there are the reasons why applicant wants to retain the visa and one of them is EEA National Has Left the Country, what happens in this case, there is no way I could get passport or ID, even if my wife wanted to leave it with me, it is not even logical.

[currahee]

I am really confused, I should get a good solicitor.

What do you say askmeplz82, do I have any chance of getting PR?

[currahee]

Hi everyone,

If you read the previous posts, you will understand my situation. My wife has been living in another country (non-EU) for a month now and I am wondering that how it is going to affect me here. Is there a time limit for her to stay abroad so in that time limit I will be fine, or will there be a problem when I travel and enter the UK.
She does not want divorce for now but I do not know what is gonna happen. Could anyone help me with this? Thank you all.

[askmeplz82]

Continuity of EU-law residence is not broken in EU law by absence of less than 6 months "per year"

when she left and coming back ? well because it's difficult to prove. Home office may even don't know that she left UK so you will be fine when coming back from holiday.

[currahee]

She left on the 3rd February and I do not know when/if she is coming back, that is the problem. Do you think UKBA can find out that she has left the country, connection between me and her on their system.

[askmeplz82]

She left on the 3rd February and I do not know when/if she is coming back, that is the problem. Do you think UKBA can find out that she has left the country, connection between me and her on their system.

unless you or she tell UKBA. They won't find out that she is not even in the UK. They don't have system in place yet. Only the immigration officer will ask you questions like " where is your EEA family member now " , "what is she doing in the UK" , "are you still together "

You can tell like yes she is still in the UK but now outside UK for work and will come back asap. I've things to do so i am back early. It's all depend on how you answer their question. If you are nervous and struggle to answer they will be suspicious and ask you more question . But in all case they won't revoke your residency if she is outside less then 6 months. They will let you in

You may want to read operation manual:

read 5.1 , 5.4 and 6.5

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ndents.pdf

[currahee]

Thank you so much for your answers, I hope it is all as you say, and there will not be problem. Regards.