Need help for EEA Family permit as a USA citizen

[minervae2007]

Hi everyone, I am a US citizen married to a Irish/British,a and we live in USA. He has both Irish and English passports. Also, I was born in Romania but I no longer have a active Romanian Passport since I left Romania 30 years ago.

We want to move back to London but we dont know what is the right way of getting the family permit.
My husband has worked full time in Ireland back in 2003 but we were not married at that time, and he also worked this summer as self-employed for 9 weeks in Ireland, but I did not live with him the entire time since I commuted to USA for my job,does this satisfy the requirement or I must be in Ireland with him the whole time when he is working.

I visit Ireland every 2-3 months for 2 weeks or more since I work in the airline business, and does this matter? I will appreciate any help since we dont know if what we have done so far qualify us for the family permit. Thank you so much.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Are you a Romanian citizen? Not having a passport does not mean that you are not a citizen. If so, this would be perhaps the simplest means of living in Europe.

[John]

I agree, get a Romanian passport!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I also also think the Romanian passport is the most straight forward thing to get. I am pretty sure you have not lost your old citizenship even if you have not had a passport for a long time.

Also, with either a Romanian passport or with a US passport, there is no need to get an EEA Family Permit before moving with your husband to the UK (or joining him there if he is already there).

What passport was your husband using in Ireland when he was working there? Where is he now?

[minervae2007]

Hi everyone and thank you very much for the answers.

First, I can't get a Romanian passport unless I go to Romania for at least a month and wait there for it and get my marriage approved by the Romanian government, this is all because I changed my family name and I took my husbands name and my US passport is in that name.
Second, I did try getting a Passport here but the Romanian embassy told me that since I only have a notarized birth certificate and not an original(the rules have changed few years ago, I never got one before leaving Romania, at that time they did not give you an original being communist state) I will have to go to Romania and try to get an original birth certificate and then apply for a Romanian Passport there. I don't have any family left in Romanian that can do this for me.

My husband is here in the states with me and and was using a Irish passport when working in Ireland.

What should I do since I can't really leave my job here in US and go to Romania for a month? How can I show that I still have a Romanian citizenship even though I don't have a Romanian passport at this time?

I know that you guys said that I don't need a Romanian passport to live in UK, but I will like to live there permanently with my husband and have the right to work.
Should I apply for a spousal visa, family permit or something else?

I'm still very confused on what my options are in order to exercise the treaty right as the spouse of EU national since I am not an EU national without a valid European passport, you have to be with your employed spouse in EU for a period of time and not on a visitor visa, if applying for family permit , is that right?. Thanks again for all the info.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

minervae2007, you are a Romanian citizen. You are a citizen of the Union. I would concentrate on getting the passport. Holding a US passport will facilitate your entry to European countries.

Have you tried getting a passport in your maiden name? You would not have to do this in the US, you could do so in Europe. I would have thought it should be possible to solicit a copy of your birth certificate in your place of birth.

[minervae2007]

Hi EUsmileWEallsmile,

Thanks so much for your post. I was told by the Romanian Embassy that I have to go to my place of birth and ask for an original birth certificate. Also, have them approve my marriage to my UK citizen husband and then apply for a Romanian passport. The problem is that I dont have anyone in Romania that can let me use their address for the passport to be sent to and then send it to me, so my only option is to go to Ireland with my husband and live with my in-laws and then somehow go to Romania and apply for a Passport.
What do you guys think?
Do you guys have any suggestions, maybe I can apply in Dublin at the Romanian Embassy or something?
I know that I am still have my Romanian citizenship but last time I asked the UK Border agency, I was told that I must show proof of my Romanian citizenship and not having a valid passport is kind f hard to do that.

[minervae2007]

Hi everyone,

Can you please tell me how it works with the 4EUFAM or the EU1 stamp or something, I never got one and I have traveled to Dublin many times with my husband and I always got a stamp on my US passport as a non-EU citizen for a 90day visit, was I suppose to get a residence stamp as the spouse of Irish/UK citizen the first time I went there with my husband?[/b] I will for sure need one when I go there this year to work out my Romanian passport situation. Thanks you guys.[/b]

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Your husband is Irish and has worked there using his Irish passport. He has a right to enter the UK and work, and you have a right to be with him no matter what your citizenship.

Your husband is also British. I am pretty sure that as a Romanian citizen you can live in the UK with him and can immediately apply for a Residence Card.

So two possible approaches to your documentation.

Do you need to work in the first month you are in the UK? Will your husband be working immediately on arrival?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

4EUFAM or the EU1 stamp are Irish specific names. Since you are going to the UK, these names do not apply.

An EEA Family Permit is a UK name for the Eu free movement visa. Not required, but if you do have it you can work as soon as you arrive.

Once your husband is working, you can immediately apply for a Residence Card.

[minervae2007]

Hi Guru,

I was only asking about the 4EUFAM or the EU1 stamp because I was thinking about going to Ireland in the next few months with my husband and get these papers for me with my American passport and then go get the Romanian passport in Bucharest if possible.

My husband is here in the US with me and he wants to get a job in Ireland if it will help our move to London next year but he does not know if he needs to go to Ireland alone and I will join him there once he has a job. He had a job in Ireland but I was not married to him back in 2003 and this year he was self employed for few months and I dont think it counts as a "real job" also I was commuting to US that whole time and I think I was suppose to stay with him the entire time, right ?also every time I went to Ireland I was on a 90 day visitor visa which I dont think was the right one as the spouse of a EU citizen exercising the treaty rights? I have read posts where people have gone to Ireland on the 90 day visitor visa to join his/her spouse and got denied by the UKBA when applying for Family Permit because of the visitor visa and not staying in Ireland the whole time when the spouse was working.

We want to move to the Republic of Ireland for few months and then my husband as a British born citizen gets to exercise his Treaty Right in another Member State (Surinder Singh case) in case some how I cant get the Romanian passport if what we have done so far does not count as exercising the Treaty Right of free movement.
I just dont understand why is so hard for the UKBA to understand that I am a EU citizen, it is written on my American Passport that I was born in Romania.

Can I go with my husband to Dublin and once in the airport ask for the 4EUFAM/EU1 stamp or something on my passport or do I have to apply in advance before leaving the states? and which one do I get or ask at the airport?

I am asking so many questions because of what I got from the UKBA when I asked about my Romanian citizenship status without a valid Romanian Passport so I can live with my husband in UK and get the right to work without getting a spousal visa or a family permit:

""""Dear xxxx,

Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately, we would require either an original Romanian ID card or passport stating your nationality as Romanian to satisfy the supporting evidence requirements of the BR forms. Without this mandatory documentation, a caseworker would not be able to approve your application:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... /applying/

If your nationality is Romanian, you could fall under the Bulgarian-Romanian accession rules, such as exemption from worker authorisation if falling under one of the categories in the following list:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... iveworkuk/

Unfortunately, it would be difficult to prove to an employer without the relevant documentation.
Kind regards"""""


Thanks so much Guru for all the information you and everyone else has given me, its really great that you guys do this.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Hi EUsmileWEallsmile,

Thanks so much for your post. I was told by the Romanian Embassy that I have to go to my place of birth and ask for an original birth certificate. Also, have them approve my marriage to my UK citizen husband and then apply for a Romanian passport. The problem is that I dont have anyone in Romania that can let me use their address for the passport to be sent to and then send it to me, so my only option is to go to Ireland with my husband and live with my in-laws and then somehow go to Romania and apply for a Passport.
What do you guys think?
Do you guys have any suggestions, maybe I can apply in Dublin at the Romanian Embassy or something?
I know that I am still have my Romanian citizenship but last time I asked the UK Border agency, I was told that I must show proof of my Romanian citizenship and not having a valid passport is kind f hard to do that.

Personally, I feel you are approaching this with the wrong frame of mind. You are a Romanian citizen, you are a European citizen, you are not a third country national.

The documentation you appear to seek is for third country national family members of EU citizens.

Do you have evidence that you held Romanian citizenship (eg expired passport)? You mention your birth certificate.

While you may find it difficult to secure employment without a current passport, neither the UK nor Ireland makes it mandatory for EU citizens to apply for residence documentation.

Sort your passport out, it may be easier to do once in Europe. Try some local Romanian agencies for advice. Don't simply rely on information from one source.

[minervae2007]

Hi EUsmileWEallsmile,

I understand exactly what you are talking about, but, like I said on the previous postings, I do not have a valid Romanian passport or an original birth certificate. In order for me to show that I am STILL ROMANIAN citizen, I need to have them 2 documents which I don't have and the Romanian Government will not issue new documents until I go in person to Romania and spend many days applying and asking them to issue new documents so I may get a Passport after showing that my marriage to my husband is valid. I can not get a Romanian passport in my maiden name because of my new family name.

My expired Romanian passport it BLUE since is for Romanians with domicile in USA not in EUROPE. I don't know if they will give me a red/maroon color one just like all the other Europeans. Rules were different 30 years ago when my parents left Romania.
So, my next best choice is to go about using my marriage to my British husband and try to get admittance in the UK but not on a Visitor Visa like in the past but get a 1A stamp at the airport in London or the equivalent in Ireland if when i go to Dublin with my husband.

I know GURU said:

"Also, with either a Romanian passport or with a US passport, there is no need to get an EEA Family Permit before moving with your husband to the UK (or joining him there if he is already there)"

but I need to be part of the society and that means permanent and legal in the country with rights to work and everything else like any other European since I'm an American.

If there is anyone out there who was or is in the same situation as me, meaning dual citizen but no documents showing you are European and married to a EU citizen (read my story above)please email me or post your story here. Thanks.

[Jambo]

I'm sure you can find that for a fee, people would do the leg work for you in Romania without you actually setting foot there.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

minervae2007

I think you are making this far more complicated than it needs to be.

Your husband has used is Irish passport earlier for working in Ireland.

Has he ever used his British passport, and if so for what?

Your expired Romanian passport is very good evidence that you are still Romanian. Does not matter what colour it is, or when it was issued.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

@ minervae2007,

I doubt that you would get someone here with a similar story to yours. We've been over this a couple of times. I believe your best bet is to come to Europe and sort your passport out. It may be difficult to do that from the States.

Your expired passport is good evidence that you were a Romanian citizen when it was issued. I'm not going to look up Romanian citizenship rules for you as I presume you know them. The expired passport would demonstrate that you are a European citizen.

I have also said that getting a residence certificate in Ireland or the UK is not mandatory. You would not be doing anything wrong by not applying for one.

The main reason I'd refrained from commenting on using your non-EU nationality is that your husband is dual UK / Irish national. That means that getting residence documentation as a spouse of such a person in either the UK or Ireland could be potentially complicated. An application could take up to six months.

Frankly, you'd have your Romanian passport in a faster timeframe. Concentrate on that.

[obormot]

While getting Romanian passport can be a painful and time-consuming experience, getting first EEA family permit, and then EEA residence card, using your American passport, could very well be even more painful and time-consuming. On top of it, once you get Romanian passport, your problems in EU will be solved forever, while using the route of "US citizen married to EU citizen" will mean more and more paperwork to do and problems to solve further along the road.
I do not know much about Romania, but I know of Russian, Ukrainian, Latvian, Polish, Serbian, etc. people in similar situations - expired passport, married in USA, changed names (nerve understood while women would willingly go into all the mess which comes from changing their name, but that is your problem..).
First, it is a pain to get official recognition of the fact that you got married in USA and changed your name. They always want you to do it in your home country. Solution is not to bother with recognition of marriage and get passport on your maiden name. Works for tons of people, they have two passports on two different names and use them both with no problems (Russian embassy even used to put a stamp in Russian passport "also known as.." in such situations; do not know if they do it now).
Second, if there are some documents (like original birth certificate) which you need to get from Romania, you could try to find a lawyer in Romania who will do it for you for some fee. I guess you will need to write an authorization for him/her to extract those documents from authorities on your behalf. Romanian embassy should help you to produce such a document. If not, write the text on both English and Romanian, get it signed by public notary, and put an apostille by the secretary of state office on it.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

obormot: You make a good point. It might be that it is simpler to get the passport in the same name as the previous passport.

I still do not understand why you are considering going to Ireland? Why not go directly to the UK?

[minervae2007]

Hi,

I took some time and calculated the costs to travel and all the necessary paperwork that needs to be done and maybe I will go to Romania as soon as I can and get my passport since like you guys said if I get the family permit and then stay in Ireland with my husband for few months, it will be more expensive and in 3 years I have to come up with more money to renew my residence, right? I am very confused about how it works if you are non-EU citizen. The only problem is that, my USA passport has my married name and all my other documents are the same way. I need the Romanian authority to approve my marriage first and then see about my passport. When I get the Romanian passport do I need a permit to work because I will like to keep my job in the airline and just get a transfer to London? Ho long does it take to get it? Thanks

[vinny]

When I get the Romanian passport do I need a permit to work because I will like to keep my job in the airline and just get a transfer to London? Ho long does it take to get it? Thanks

See also EEA1 confusion.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I took some time and calculated the costs to travel and all the necessary paperwork that needs to be done and maybe I will go to Romania as soon as I can and get my passport since like you guys said if I get the family permit and then stay in Ireland with my husband for few months, it will be more expensive and in 3 years I have to come up with more money to renew my residence, right? I am very confused about how it works if you are non-EU citizen. The only problem is that, my USA passport has my married name and all my other documents are the same way. I need the Romanian authority to approve my marriage first and then see about my passport. When I get the Romanian passport do I need a permit to work because I will like to keep my job in the airline and just get a transfer to London? Ho long does it take to get it? Thanks

It is very very easy if you want to move to the UK with your Irish husband. No problem at all. It will cost you £55 initially and that will give you the ability to work.

You then have the time to sort out the Romanian passport or ID card if you wish (you do not need both).