Surinder Singh entry clearance

[Graham Weifang]

Our situation currently as follows.


I am British citizen, my wife is Chinese citizen.
She got a German visa, to enter Germany, as part of our wider plan to enter UK at a later stage.
I am therefore exercising my treaty rights as a worker to return to UK together as husband and wife.
We are currently in Germany living together.
We are both registered (Einwohnermeldeamt) at our local German registration offices (town hall 'Rathaus') at our German rented address.
I am registered in the German tax system, and pay tax on my earnings every month.
We have a joint German current bank account, which is registered to our German address.
I have been working for 2 months and a week already, with payslips, and showing tax deducted

My wife should qualify as she has been living with me in Germany, while I have been working there.
I believe we must approach the UK Embassy for this EEA family permit, and It should be issued free of charge.

Q1. How long generally does it take from the time we attend the UK Embassy, and produce our history and documents? to the time we receive her EEA family permit?


If we decided not to apply for the EEA family permit for her passport and alternatively we were to arrive at UKBA offices in the Port of Calais, and then were able to produce all those documents, to the IO, (That same documents that we would have produced to UK Embassy) I understand she would be admitted, but after some hours' delay.

So, when we eventually have >3 months evidence that I have been working in Germany and that she has been living with me here, is it as strait forward as I believe it to be for my wife to get, what I believe is the CODE 1A STAMP in her passport, and this is her entry clearance?

Thanks all.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

If you are close to an embassy, just apply for the EEA Family Permit. Should be issued easily and without trouble. Then you can fly if you want.

I doubt they will refuse it. Should be issued the same day, but likely will take a week or so.

[Graham Weifang]

Thank you Directive/2004/38/EC,

If the EEA FP is issued in a time scale of about a week, then fine we could certainly plan that into our time scale.
I had heard one or two other stories, where it was a few months, which kind of put us off the EEA FP application

I am sure you are more right than "other stories"

I should have also mentioned that we have our car here, so to be fair, we still need to exit via Calais, or Dunkirk, but thanks for the suggestion.

GW

[Jambo]

According to UKBA visa processing times, the three visa centres in Germany normally (over 95%) issue the EEA FP within 2 weeks. If the visa centre is close to you, it would be easier to get the EEA FP befrore departing. You don't want to show up in Calais and finding out you are missing a document.

[Graham Weifang]

According to UKBA visa processing times, the three visa centres in Germany normally (over 95%) issue the EEA FP within 2 weeks. If the visa centre is close to you, it would be easier to get the EEA FP befrore departing. You don't want to show up in Calais and finding out you are missing a document.

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Hello Jambo,


Many thanks for identifying the UKBA webpage that indicates the UK Embassy's in Germany.
We are in Northern Germany, not far from Hamburg.

There are visa application centres in Düsseldorf, Berlin or München.
Düsseldorf, is the closest at 200 miles away (310 km)

I will think about it, but a 400 mile round trip is a bit off-putting.

GW.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

You could even try doing a test trip to the UK. Same day return tickets on the ferry/train are/were very cheap.

[Graham Weifang]

You could even try doing a test trip to the UK. Same day return tickets on the ferry/train are/were very cheap.

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Thanks Directive,

Yet another great idea, return tickets can be quite cheap "Walk-on" passengers at the P&O ferry at Calais.

Stay in Dover for a few hours, then "Walk-on" passengers at the P&O ferry back to Calais.

Certainly give one the feel for things.

Assuming the "Test trip" works and her is admitted to UK with the "Code 1A code stamp" , would there be any issues further returning to UK a day or so later with our car on the ferry?

GW

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The same law that requires them to issue Code 1A (see http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/) applies for any entry.

The only thing thing that should be different is you will know where is the best place to sit, and which coffee shop to avoid on board.

My personal advise is you should aim to depart from Calais in the morning. That way you are well rested. I would also suggest you print out the relevant parts of UK law (implementing both MRAX and Singh)

Note that you must carry evidence that you have been working in a host member state. Contract + payslips + work id card would be good. What evidence do you have?

[Graham Weifang]

Note that you must carry evidence that you have been working in a host member state. Contract + payslips + work id card would be good. What evidence do you have?

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Hi Directive,
1/ We have joint our registration at the burgerhuise, (townhall) for our rented address.
2/ We have our joint rental accommodation agreement.
3/ I have a work contract for 4 months, starting from 24th June 2013
4/ I have my job card ID.
5/ I have my tax reference numbers for paying German tax.
6/ We have joint German High Street bank account at our rental accommodation address, with bank cards.
7/ I have weekly signed time sheets, of 10 hours per week at €10.00 per hour.
8/ We have our original and certified notorized copied of our marriage documents, these required to be legalized by the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, before the German embassy in Beijing would issue my wife a visa, (married to an EU citizen visa) which was free, no cost. but the legalization process did cost us £66.00 and about £50 travel costs for that process.
9/ We have kept our day to day till receipts from the food etc, that we have been buying here.

We have two marriage books, one for the marriage day, and one for the ensuing photograph with all the fancy suites and dresses.
We have thousands of photos, in year books, and "event books" where we holiday's together in Cape Town, or Crete, or UK, or Vietnam.
Also many showing with both her family, and my family, going back over the 4 years together.
We lived together for 3 years in China, and married a year ago in China.
She has been to UK on tourist visit visa
Several Shengen visa's
USA visa
South Africa visa
2 Vietnam visa's

Probably about 30 hotel receipts over the years, showing both our names on the receipts.
Multi flight bookings etc, for our holidays.
We do appear to have comprehensive history, of our relationship and marriage.


I and my wife intend write short statements each, to the fact that we desire to enter UK under the Surinder Singh route, quoting the Economic Treaty rights, and I think it is section 9& 11 & 12 of 2006 Immigration legislation
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006 ... on/12/made
Also perhaps print out of Damien Greens letter of 19 June 2012. ( do you know of web-link) I have a copy, but not where I got it from.
Also a print out of the section in the UKBA documentation, where there statement refers to the fact that " it makes no difference if the only reason the UK citizen went to work in another EU country, with the sole reason to return to UK with his non EU wife"
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... /#header14

I was also considering printing out the article which appeared in the BBC News
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23029195
The Britons leaving the UK to get their relatives in

Can you please suggest any more?

If you can please do so.

GW

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

You do not need to print out so much. And I would not initially volunteer so much documentation. Organize it into primary and secondary. Remember that all you need for marriage evidence (PRIMARY) is a marriage certificate. And you need (PRIMARY) evidence that you were working in another EU member state and that you were both there living together.

Do not provide multiple (PRIMARY) items of evidence to prove any given point.

It is fine to have all sorts of (SECONDARY) backup evidence. I would keep that initially hidden and refer to it only if needed.

[Graham Weifang]

Dear Directive,

Thank you once again for the good advice.

I can see now that giving a whole big initial bundle would confuse possibly the situation.

So as you correctly suggest, start the bundle with the basic "must have's"

Then if any further questioning requires answering, then we can bring out bundle number two as reference for further evidence.

Thank you again.

GW

[ukforever]

Also a print out of the section in the UKBA documentation, where there statement refers to the fact that " it makes no difference if the only reason the UK citizen went to work in another EU country, with the sole reason to return to UK with his non EU wife"
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... /#header14

the statement you are talking about above is no more,go click on the link you provided and u will see,the ukba erased it completely.

the link u asked about(damien green letter):

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/278 ... reeEEA.pdf

good luck.

[Natgeb]

[quote="ukforever"][quote="Graham Weifang"]

Also a print out of the section in the UKBA documentation, where there statement refers to the fact that " it makes no difference if the only reason the UK citizen went to work in another EU country, with the sole reason to return to UK with his non EU wife"
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... /#header14[/quote

This is interesting. The UKBA must have just removed this as it was on there yesterday. I wonder why?

[Natgeb]

Does anyone have another copy or link of what it once stated?

[Graham Weifang]

Reference
EUN2.14 Can family members of British citizens qualify for an EEA family permit? ('Surinder Singh' cases)

Near the bottom,,,,,


New wording

Because EEA nationals have an initial three months right of residence in the UK, there is no requirement for the British national to be a qualified person on arrival. Therefore, an EEA family permit can be issued to the non-EEA national family member of a British national even if they are only visiting the UK with the British national before returning to the Member State where they are resident.

The ECO should seek advice from ECCCAT where unsure about the decision to be taken in applying the Surinder Singh judgment.


Old wording
Because EEA nationals have an initial three months right of residence in the UK, there is no requirement for the British national to be a qualified person on arrival. Therefore, an EEA family permit can be issued to the non-EEA national family member of a British national even if they are only visiting the UK with the British national before returning to the Member State where they are resident.
It does not matter if the only reason the British national went to another Member State was to exercise an economic Treaty right was so that he / she could come back to the UK with his / her family members under EC law.
The ECO should seek advice from ECCCAT where unsure about the decision to be taken in applying the Surinder Singh judgment.

Saved on my PC. on 02 June 2013.

Why would they want to deleted them few lines?

GW.

[Graham Weifang]

Also a print out of the section in the UKBA documentation, where there statement refers to the fact that " it makes no difference if the only reason the UK citizen went to work in another EU country, with the sole reason to return to UK with his non EU wife"
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... /#header14

the statement you are talking about above is no more,go click on the link you provided and u will see,the ukba erased it completely.

the link u asked about(damien green letter):

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/278 ... reeEEA.pdf

good luck.

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Hi ukforever,

I guess the fact that they have simply removed 2 lines from a previous webpage, can't make any difference at all to EU legislation.
So why remove the 2 lines.

Are they (UKBA) which is now a new government body, just playing silly mind games, and trying not to publicize this EU fact.?

As long as Directive 2004/EC38 remains as such.
.
Who is covered by Directive 2004/38/EC?

Citizens of an EU or EEA member state who visit, live, study or work in a different member state
The EU citizen’s direct family members, including their non-EU spouse and the spouse’s direct family members (such as children)
Other family members who are “beneficiaries”, including common law partners, same sex partners, and dependent family members, members of the household, and sick family members
Family members (as outlined above), where the EU citizen has worked in another member state and now wishes to return to their “home” country to work [Singh]

https://eumovement.wordpress.com/directive-200438ec/
GW

[ukforever]

hi graham,
i agree with u totally,but keep in mind that recently most peoples in the family settlement process are struggling to get a spouse visa to get their spouses/childrens/parents to the uk,so i guess now thousands of couples are doing/looking to do the surrinder singh route and my guess is,the ukba noticed just that(they noticed a drop in spouse visa applications vs a rise in EEA2 applications in country applying for residence card),so my understanding of the situation is that if u already new about this section and later u noticed that its gone,it will make u think twice about what is going on..!!i don't know really why they removed it but again my guess is they are trying to scare peoples off this route,just trying to put as much mystery on the subject as possible..i can't see how they can do that,specially now with internet and forums,peoples are more aware of ways on how to get round what the ukba are trying to do..i'm not implying that couples getting round the rules illegally,but most getting round the illegal ways of the ukba and its definitely legal to do the singh route no matter what the ukba would try to do in the future to try and stop people using this route..
i wish good luck to everybody doing the SS and specially for u GW.

[Graham Weifang]

hi graham,

i wish good luck to everybody doing the SS and specially for u GW.

.
Thanks ukforever,

Appreciation to you.

GW

[chaoclive]

Graham

Just a quick question if you have time. When you applied for the entry permit for your wife, did you do so in Beijing? Did you have any issues with the German Embassy there?

They have asked me if I want to stay in German permanently (of course I said that I am exercising EUTR by looking for a job in Germany) and were a bit cagey about giving details of the permit.

Just wondering...

谢谢
Chaoclive

[Graham Weifang]

Graham

Just a quick question if you have time. When you applied for the entry permit for your wife, did you do so in Beijing? Did you have any issues with the German Embassy there?

They have asked me if I want to stay in German permanently (of course I said that I am exercising EUTR by looking for a job in Germany) and were a bit cagey about giving details of the permit.

Just wondering...

谢谢
Chaoclive

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Hi Clive,

Yes in Beijing, to TLS, no visa fee, but a process fee of 60 quai, which was returned.
You need to make the payment, but they tell you that it will be refunded to you, which it was a few days later.

We had 1 issue which we did not know about prior to application for her visa.
That was the requirement that one of our 2 translated notarised copies of our marriage certificate, was needed to be legalised by the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, in Beijing.

This took about 10 days to do, and cost about 700 quai, I seem to remember. Nice big shiny holographic sticker on the inside of the back page.
Apart from that, it was all strait forward.
It was a visit visa, for the spouse of an EU citizen.
We were not asked any time we wanted to be in Germany.
The duration doesn't really matter, as when you arrive in Germany, you both must register your residential address at the Rathuis.

GW.

[chaoclive]

Thanks Graham! Glad things went smoothly for you.

My marriage certificate is from the UK, so hopefully it wouldn't need to be translated/notarized. I'll ask just in case!

Thanks for your help. All the best with your plans!

Take care
C

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

What is a "process fee of 60 quai, which was returned"?

[chaoclive]

Many of the Embassies in Beijing (due to high volumes) use an outside processing company (in this case TLS).

These providers charge a fee and will not (generally) accept applications without this fee. In this case 60 kuai (the informal name for 'yuan' or 'RMB', the Chinese currency) was charged.

But it was returned to Graham later.

This also happens with the Norwegian Embassy in Beijing.

At the end of the day, these Embassies still provide a free service...

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Many of the Embassies in Beijing (due to high volumes) use an outside processing company (in this case TLS).

These providers charge a fee and will not (generally) accept applications without this fee. In this case 60 kuai (the informal name for 'yuan' or 'RMB', the Chinese currency) was charged.

But it was returned to Graham later.

This also happens with the Norwegian Embassy in Beijing.

At the end of the day, these Embassies still provide a free service...

Technically they should not be charging any fee. You could imagine that charging a $1000 fee (and then refunding it) would make it harder to access the visa, or force you to have a credit card to pay the fee.

So in all cases the fee is fully refunded by the time the visa is issued?

[euroguys]

Have you graham or any one else got a capture file of this earlier UKBA page rather than just a copy paste please

"
New wording

Because EEA nationals have an initial three months right of residence in the UK, there is no requirement for the British national to be a qualified person on arrival. Therefore, an EEA family permit can be issued to the non-EEA national family member of a British national even if they are only visiting the UK with the British national before returning to the Member State where they are resident.

The ECO should seek advice from ECCCAT where unsure about the decision to be taken in applying the Surinder Singh judgment.


Old wording
Because EEA nationals have an initial three months right of residence in the UK, there is no requirement for the British national to be a qualified person on arrival. Therefore, an EEA family permit can be issued to the non-EEA national family member of a British national even if they are only visiting the UK with the British national before returning to the Member State where they are resident.
It does not matter if the only reason the British national went to another Member State was to exercise an economic Treaty right was so that he / she could come back to the UK with his / her family members under EC law.
The ECO should seek advice from ECCCAT where unsure about the decision to be taken in applying the Surinder Singh judgment.

Saved on my PC. on 02 June 2013."

Im getting all my evidence prepared for Singh application