EEA4 and naturalisation.

[oleg555506]

Dear All,

I am new to this forum and would like to share my timeline and ask a question.
I am Ukrainian and got married to Polish in Aug 2007. In September 2007 got 6 month entry clearance and In Oct 2007 first came to UK. In Apr 2008 I got my RC valid for 5 years. My Polish wife have received here PR via EEA3 in Apr 2008 together with my EEA2 RC. Since then she has been studying and working without gaps.

In January 2013 we have split up and in Feb 2013 went for divorce.
21 June 2013 Received Decree absolute.

I have applied for my PR in Apr 2013, please see timeline bellow:

EEA4 application sent - 12.04.2013
HO received - 13.04.2013
COA Received - 19.04.2013
Request for ex-wife National ID card back - 17.07.2013
Phone them up after 20 working days - they just apologies and suggested to submit another request.
19.08.2013 - Submit another request with ex-wife letter that she require her ID card for frequent work travel.
PR - Still waiting.

My question is following. In October 2013 will be 6 years since I become resident in UK, can I apply for naturalisation by supplying all documents covering 5 + 1 year. Or I have to wait for 1 year after my PR?
According to HO website, it is not necessary to apply for PR, so theoretically by supplying all documents that my ex EEA partner has been exercising treaty rights in the UK for the last 6 years (supplying same proof as for EEA4) I can apply for naturalisation in Oct 2013.

I would be grateful for any help and comments.

Oleg

[Jambo]

See Q1 & Q5 in Citizenship FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting.

[oleg555506]

See Q1 & Q5 in Citizenship FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting.

Thank you Jumbo! I think option one is very helpful for me.

[SouthWest1]

I believe you don't qualify for option 1 as you no longer a family member.
I am in a similar situation like you but i have my PR issued few months back and already got divorced.
when I checked with my lawyer and another immigration advisor, both said that i can only qualify based on option 2 and only after 12 months of the PR issue date i can apply.

in all cases,Ii thought i would wait for 2 reasons:
1- i no longer have my ex wife's Passport/ID.
2- Do not want to lose nearly £900 if application declined.

[Jambo]

If you qualify for option (2), you can qualify for option (1). The only difference between the two is spliting the journey into two stages with a 12 months gap.
However, as PR is obtained automatically under EEA Regulations, then the 12 month wait (in option 2) is legally not required and is mainly useful in order to save you paperwork for naturalisation (or to reduce risk of losing the fee).

The OP was resident in the UK for more than 5 years before getting divorced so he qualified as a family member. Even if not, then he could have retained his rights of residence even without applying for PR.

[SouthWest1]

Thanks Jambo.

But how about divorce here? i thought one needs to be still in a relationship with the EU national ( not divorced) to qualify for option 1?

[oleg555506]

Thanks Jambo.

But how about divorce here? i thought one needs to be still in a relationship with the EU national ( not divorced) to qualify for option 1?

I am agree with Jambo, I got divorce after 5 years being resident and married to EU national. So I obtain my PR status in Oct 2012 automatically still being EU family member.

Once I receive, hopefully by Oct, my PR card I will have to take a risk and apply for naturalisation, as my future life looks all over the world due to work travel. And I am sure I will be absent from UK for more than 90 days.

Jambo, once I have sent my application for naturalisation, can I go abroad or I have to be in UK?

SouthWest1, can you please share some of your timeline, when did you get married, divorced, and how long did you have to wait for PR card.

Many Thanks for your help!

[oleg555506]

Thanks Jambo.

But how about divorce here? i thought one needs to be still in a relationship with the EU national ( not divorced) to qualify for option 1?

I am agree with Jambo, I got divorce after 5 years being resident and married to EU national. So I obtain my PR status in Oct 2012 automatically still being EU family member.

Once I receive, hopefully by Oct, my PR card I will have to take a risk and apply for naturalisation, as my future life looks all over the world due to work travel. And I am sure I will be absent from UK for more than 90 days.

Jambo, once I have sent my application for naturalisation, can I go abroad or I have to be in UK?

SouthWest1, can you please share some of your timeline, when did you get married, divorced, and how long did you have to wait for PR card.

Many Thanks for your help!

And forget to mentioned that my ex-wife still cooperative with me. So if I need her passport for naturalisation, I don't think it would be an issue.

Regards

[spirou1]

Hi everyone
Please I' m hoping to get a clear answer

What if the EEA national applied for naturalisation and become British ?

I am a family member of an eea resident

Sept 2008 Came to the uk on a EEA 2
Aug 2009 got 5 years residence

Aug 2013 wife became British after she applied for naturalisation

Question : can I skip EEA4 + 1 year of waiting time + several months of application process waiting time

Can I apply for naturalisation in October 2013 ? Which means I will be in the uk for 5 years.

[vinny]

Yes, if the EEA national retains the EEA citizenship after acquiring British Citizenship. Else, it may be complicated.

[spirou1]

Yes my wife retains her EEA citizenship so she has both.

So Can I simply apply for naturalisation as a spouse of a British citizen regardless when she became a British citizen ?

Do I have to wait until she get a British passport or the certificate would be enough ??

Apart from her EEA passport and ID Are there any additional documents I need to prove she is still EEA national ?

[Plum70]

Yes my wife retains her EEA citizenship so she has both.

So Can I simply apply for naturalisation as a spouse of a British citizen regardless when she became a British citizen ?

Do I have to wait until she get a British passport or the certificate would be enough ??

Apart from her EEA passport and ID Are there any additional documents I need to prove she is still EEA national ?

Come Oct. 2013, you may apply as the spouse of a British national using your wife's naturalisation certificate. Other supporting docs are clearly outlined in the AN application pack which can be found on the UKBA website.

It is a very easy process to follow but you may also wish to use your local NCS (Nationality Checking Service) who will check check that your completed application and supporting docs are in order before sending them off to the UKBA on your behalf. This comes at a relatively small fee in addition to the AN fee.

[SouthWest1]

Thanks Jambo.

But how about divorce here? i thought one needs to be still in a relationship with the EU national ( not divorced) to qualify for option 1?

I am agree with Jambo, I got divorce after 5 years being resident and married to EU national. So I obtain my PR status in Oct 2012 automatically still being EU family member.

Once I receive, hopefully by Oct, my PR card I will have to take a risk and apply for naturalisation, as my future life looks all over the world due to work travel. And I am sure I will be absent from UK for more than 90 days.

Jambo, once I have sent my application for naturalisation, can I go abroad or I have to be in UK?

SouthWest1, can you please share some of your timeline, when did you get married, divorced, and how long did you have to wait for PR card.

Many Thanks for your help!

hi,
married: August 2007
PR obtained : April 2013 ( waited for about 5 months since app. logged via a solicitor)
divorced: July 2013

[spirou1]

So to answer the question 1.3 of the AN form can I put the 14th of September as a date I was given indefinite leave to remain if I entered the uk 13th sept 2008?? .. ( acknowledging that I don't have a physical ILR or PR document)

Do the NCS advise you on any of these tricky matters ?

Many thanks for your help guys .. A lot appreciated

[Plum70]

So to answer the question 1.3 of the AN form can I put the 14th of September as a date I was given indefinite leave to remain if I entered the uk 13th sept 2008?? .. ( acknowledging that I don't have a physical ILR or PR document)

Do the NCS advise you on any of these tricky matters ?

Many thanks for your help guys .. A lot appreciated

Provided that the 13th September is the day you physically entered the UK as the spouse of a EU national, then yes, 14th September 2013 will be the date that you automatically attained PR under EU law as the spouse of a qualified EU national.

The NCS will offer advice where necessary and check direct with the UKBA case workers if in doubt.

[oleg555506]

Thanks Jambo.

But how about divorce here? i thought one needs to be still in a relationship with the EU national ( not divorced) to qualify for option 1?

I am agree with Jambo, I got divorce after 5 years being resident and married to EU national. So I obtain my PR status in Oct 2012 automatically still being EU family member.

Once I receive, hopefully by Oct, my PR card I will have to take a risk and apply for naturalisation, as my future life looks all over the world due to work travel. And I am sure I will be absent from UK for more than 90 days.

Jambo, once I have sent my application for naturalisation, can I go abroad or I have to be in UK?

SouthWest1, can you please share some of your timeline, when did you get married, divorced, and how long did you have to wait for PR card.

Many Thanks for your help!

Just would like to update on my story. I have received my ex wife ID back today with second class post. With application I have sent return special delivery envelope. Just wondering what's happening to my application? Does anyone have similar story. I thought after 3 month if you request any documents back they should review an application.
Is any chance my application is got to someone's hands finally?
Please share your experience.
Many Thanks

[Jambo]

Just wondering what's happening to my application?

It is impossible to say.

I thought after 3 month if you request any documents back they should review an application.

That's the policy but with such a big backlog, I'm not sure they follow it. It could be they just dug the ID out from the bottom of a big pile

[good-life]

UKBA should return urgent documents immediately , you can go to this link and sing on to help your self and every one in your position.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/37916

[oleg555506]

Just wondering what's happening to my application?

It is impossible to say.

I thought after 3 month if you request any documents back they should review an application.

That's the policy but with such a big backlog, I'm not sure they follow it. It could be they just dug the ID out from the bottom of a big pile

Hi Jambo,
Need little bit of help. Have received my papers back and it was refused with rights to appeal. The refusal is following:
1. They need to see that my former spouse was exercising at the time of divorce. - I do not understand this, the divorce has been after 5 years my residence in the UK.
2. I haven't send my Decree absolute to them. - Which I haven't, I didn't knew it I have to.
3. Evidence that my EEA ex spouse is been in employment since Oct 2012 which is a 5 years of residency.
My question is should I get immigration solicitor to do so or doing appeal by myself? Also how long does it take for appeal decision and if decision is approved how long it takes to get PR?

Any help would be highly appreciated.

Many thanks

[SouthWest1]

Hi oleg555506,
Sorry to hear about the refusal. i looks like you lodged the application during your divorce and i suppose you did not mention that you were going through divorce?
so for the HO, you both still partners and to be honest you should have included all work details ( P60, Payslips...etc) up until the month you submitted the application.
HO has nothing to worry about when they decide to refuse an application so the onus should be on the applicant to provide every thing in order not to give them any reasons to refuse.
you mentioned earlier in the thread that your ex is cooperative so you might get what they ask for and ask for reconsideration.
i am not an expert but i think mentioning the divorce now might complicate it.
may be Jambo can provide more expert advice on the situation ?

[oleg555506]

Hi oleg555506,
Sorry to hear about the refusal. i looks like you lodged the application during your divorce and i suppose you did not mention that you were going through divorce?
so for the HO, you both still partners and to be honest you should have included all work details ( P60, Payslips...etc) up until the month you submitted the application.
HO has nothing to worry about when they decide to refuse an application so the onus should be on the applicant to provide every thing in order not to give them any reasons to refuse.
you mentioned earlier in the thread that your ex is cooperative so you might get what they ask for and ask for reconsideration.
i am not an expert but i think mentioning the divorce now might complicate it.
may be Jambo can provide more expert advice on the situation ?

Thanks for reply SouthWest1.
Sorry not to be clear. When I submit my application I did mentioned that divorce in the progress and by my mistake I filled in ROR section. The HO switch this application from family member to ROR. I have submitted all papers until Oct 2012 which is exactly 5 years and have applied in Apr 2013 which is half a year later. I was under the impression once I have completed 5 years I don’t have to prove ROR anymore. I have spoken with few solicitors and all confirmed I was doing right think but HO has twisted around and they right on they way too.
I am preparing reconsideration letter along with all requested by them papers which I have. Will post on Thursday and hopefully will succeed and avoid going through appeal.
What would be your recommendation on reconsideration letter? Apologising that I didn’t provide evidence and submitted application by myself and here is the requested papers or be a bit harder to them and make the point that after 5 years I am automatically get permanent residence?
Should I be sending that letter to caseworker or head of department or both?
Should I send copy to MP also?
Also, shall I get that letter done myself or solicitor and should I be sending myself or through the solicitors.
I am really appreciating all you help!
Thanks!

[SouthWest1]

To be honest a i am not an expert on what to put in the letter but i as can gather from all replies on this site, you better go through both routes in the same time (Reconsideration and Appeal).

If you think a solicitor can do it better (Providing he/she knows what they are talking about as some do not have a clue about EU laws), then go for one.

[Jambo]

Hi Jambo,
Need little bit of help. Have received my papers back and it was refused with rights to appeal. The refusal is following:
1. They need to see that my former spouse was exercising at the time of divorce. - I do not understand this, the divorce has been after 5 years my residence in the UK.
2. I haven't send my Decree absolute to them. - Which I haven't, I didn't knew it I have to.
3. Evidence that my EEA ex spouse is been in employment since Oct 2012 which is a 5 years of residency.
My question is should I get immigration solicitor to do so or doing appeal by myself? Also how long does it take for appeal decision and if decision is approved how long it takes to get PR?

Have you provided evidence of your (now EX) wife exercising treaty rights for 5 continuous years before the divorce? If you did, I would do exactly as you said - I would write back to the caseworker who refused the application and ask for reconsideration. The fact that you got divorced after obtaining the PR status (automatically) is irrelevant to the application.

As a plan B, you may also wish to start the appeal process (i.e. pay the fee) as there is a time limit on that (10 days).

[oleg555506]

Hi Jambo,
Need little bit of help. Have received my papers back and it was refused with rights to appeal. The refusal is following:
1. They need to see that my former spouse was exercising at the time of divorce. - I do not understand this, the divorce has been after 5 years my residence in the UK.
2. I haven't send my Decree absolute to them. - Which I haven't, I didn't knew it I have to.
3. Evidence that my EEA ex spouse is been in employment since Oct 2012 which is a 5 years of residency.
My question is should I get immigration solicitor to do so or doing appeal by myself? Also how long does it take for appeal decision and if decision is approved how long it takes to get PR?

Have you provided evidence of your (now EX) wife exercising treaty rights for 5 continuous years before the divorce? If you did, I would do exactly as you said - I would write back to the caseworker who refused the application and ask for reconsideration. The fact that you got divorced after obtaining the PR status (automatically) is irrelevant to the application.

As a plan B, you may also wish to start the appeal process (i.e. pay the fee) as there is a time limit on that (10 days).

Thanks for reply Jambo, I have provided till Oct 2012. They asking now for evidence from Oct 2012 till decree absolute which is June 2013 and my evidence of employment from decree absolute till present day. I have all paperwork ready to send with reconsideration letter. Do you think I have a slim chances to succeed with reconsideration letter? Of course I will file an appeal too.
I am self-employed and will send them my bank statement showing my invoices are been paid, purchase invoices, tax return 2012/13. I don’t have an accountant as I am doing tax return myself.

[Jambo]

I believe it was wrong asking you for that evidence as you have provided evidence of 5 continuous years of your wife's activities. The fact you got divorced after is not relevant to the application. The fact you filled in the RoR section in the form probably helped a bit with the confusion. Make sure you explain where you believe they have made a mistake and ask for reconsideration. I trust you will be successful.