EEA Family Permit and Surinder Singh

[amritkapoor]

Hi,

I am a bit confused about EEA family permit and Surinder Singh route. Need some help

I am a UK citizen and plan to get my spouse's parents in UK.

With EEA Family permit, after doing the research - I came to know that parents and spouse parents are direct dependents and if you show them financially dependent, it should be reasonably easy to get an EEA family permit and entry into the UK.

Caveat in my case being that I am living in UK (and a UK citizen) and have to go to EEA country , work there for at least 3 months and then classify myself as EEA citizen

My queries and confusion are as follow:

1) Will 3 months be sufficient and do i need to register anywhere or follow any process to classify myself as EEA citizen while I am in EEA country?
2) Moving to UK and then bringing back your dependents was categorised as Surinder Singh route, in which "Surinder Singh" took the spouse route. My assumption is that it can be used for all dependents as per EEA family permit rules. Please confirm
3) My spouse parents are financially dependent, as my husband send them regular monies on monthly basis via bank transfer. While filing for their EEA family permit, do they need to be located somewhere specific i.e. with me in EEA country? India (where they originally live)? or can they even be in UK travelling on a visitor visa (potentially living with my spouse) and can they file the EEA family permit from UK itself?
4) Where do I need to be located while they file for EEA family permit? Do i need to be in EEA country or can I be in UK? Also, If i need to be in EEA country, can I return to UK after the application is filed or have to be there until the final decision?
5) How long does the overall process take ? and if someone can briefly explain the process , it will be greatly appreciated

Apologies for asking multiple queries but will be really good if anyone can provide their suggestion and feedback

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Are they fully 100% dependent on you? Or do they also have other savings or payments made to them?

[amritkapoor]

Are they fully 100% dependent on you? Or do they also have other savings or payments made to them?

They are fully dependent on me and we (basically my spouse) transfer monies for all basic things on monthly basis. Although, they own 1 bedroom flat where they currently live.

Hope this answers

[amritkapoor]

Can anyone please reply/advise about my queries

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Are they fully 100% dependent on you? Or do they also have other savings or payments made to them?

They are fully dependent on me and we (basically my spouse) transfer monies for all basic things on monthly basis. Although, they own 1 bedroom flat where they currently live.

Another person (user name a.s.b.o) on the forum had a similar situation. They had bought a flat for their parents in Moscow, and the EEA FP was refused on the grounds that that made the parent not dependent. Asbo is appealing.

I would still advise you to go ahead. Do not mention the flat. Do provide proof that all money is coming from you. If refused, you may have to appeal.

If it is trivial to do, you might want to consider taking ownership of your parent's flat.

[amritkapoor]

Are they fully 100% dependent on you? Or do they also have other savings or payments made to them?

They are fully dependent on me and we (basically my spouse) transfer monies for all basic things on monthly basis. Although, they own 1 bedroom flat where they currently live.

Another person (user name a.s.b.o) on the forum had a similar situation. They had bought a flat for their parents in Moscow, and the EEA FP was refused on the grounds that that made the parent not dependent. Asbo is appealing.

I would still advise you to go ahead. Do not mention the flat. Do provide proof that all money is coming from you. If refused, you may have to appeal.

If it is trivial to do, you might want to consider taking ownership of your parent's flat.

Many Thanks for your reply.
It is really difficult to take the ownership of the flat but will explore that option as well.
Will it be possible to answer my original queries please?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

2) Moving to UK and then bringing back your dependents was categorised as Surinder Singh route, in which "Surinder Singh" took the spouse route. My assumption is that it can be used for all dependents as per EEA family permit rules. Please confirm

Suggest you read the FAQs for the other questions. This one is interesting.

Singh was indeed a spouse.

But the same thought process in Singh also applies to children, for example.

And I think you could easily argue that it applies to anyone classified as a direct family member by Directive 2004/38/EC, as a dependent parent is.

There is another active thread in this forum discussing a recent refusal of an EEA Family Permit for a parent. The people are based in Ireland. No mention in the refusal that this type of relationship does not qualify. Search for and include a link here.

[amritkapoor]

2) Moving to UK and then bringing back your dependents was categorised as Surinder Singh route, in which "Surinder Singh" took the spouse route. My assumption is that it can be used for all dependents as per EEA family permit rules. Please confirm

Suggest you read the FAQs for the other questions. This one is interesting.

Singh was indeed a spouse.

But the same thought process in Singh also applies to children, for example.

And I think you could easily argue that it applies to anyone classified as a direct family member by Directive 2004/38/EC, as a dependent parent is.

There is another active thread in this forum discussing a recent refusal of an EEA Family Permit for a parent. The people are based in Ireland. No mention in the refusal that this type of relationship does not qualify. Search for and include a link here.

Thanks i did go through a lot of forums and faq but is still confused about the the following query in particular and will appreciate if you can advise please

--- Where do I need to be located while they file for EEA family permit? Do i need to be in EEA country or can I be in UK? Also, If i need to be in EEA country, can I return to UK after the application is filed or have to be there until the final decision?

[amritkapoor]

2) Moving to UK and then bringing back your dependents was categorised as Surinder Singh route, in which "Surinder Singh" took the spouse route. My assumption is that it can be used for all dependents as per EEA family permit rules. Please confirm

Suggest you read the FAQs for the other questions. This one is interesting.

Singh was indeed a spouse.

But the same thought process in Singh also applies to children, for example.

And I think you could easily argue that it applies to anyone classified as a direct family member by Directive 2004/38/EC, as a dependent parent is.

There is another active thread in this forum discussing a recent refusal of an EEA Family Permit for a parent. The people are based in Ireland. No mention in the refusal that this type of relationship does not qualify. Search for and include a link here.

I have also read that case worker will take Surinder Singh literally and will expect the dependents (in this case parents) to live with you in EU countries. But as per EEA fp route, this does not need to be the case for dependent parents ..

How do we ensure that the case worker interpret it correctly

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

--- Where do I need to be located while they file for EEA family permit? Do i need to be in EEA country or can I be in UK? Also, If i need to be in EEA country, can I return to UK after the application is filed or have to be there until the final decision?

EEA Family Permits normally take a week or two to process. You want to leave your family member in Ireland for that time?

This makes me think I should clarify. You(EU citizen) will need to move to Ireland. And find a job there for around 3 months of work. Then the EEA FP application only takes about 2 weeks. So overall expect the process to take 6 months.

[obormot]

From what I am reading (but I am far from being a specialist), it looks like you have more chances if your parents reside with you in some country other then UK, immediately before you all want to move to UK together with them.
So the safest way might be to bring parents to the EU country where UK person is working to qualify under SS (they can come on a tourist visa), let them stay with you for a while (say, 2-3 months at least), and document that they live with you in the same household in that EU country.
Then you apply for EEA family permit from that EU country for them to come to UK (which is typically treated a bit better then applications made in India, or Russia, or..), go to UK with them, and apply for EEA2 for them once in UK.

[amritkapoor]

Thanks Everyone.

I am planning to move to Germany and plan to call my parents-in law there to apply for EEA FP as direct dependents

My query now is that as we are trying to for EEA FP in UK, there should be a similar mechanism of them staying as my EEA dependent in Germany.

Reason for asking is that although they can come on tourist visa but there will be a limit of 90 days. And also assuming if they have proven EEA dependency on myself in Germany, it should help in my application of EEA FP in UK.

Please advise.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The visa for a family member is just an entry visa. Does not matter if the visa is good for 1 day or 90 days.

[amritkapoor]

The visa for a family member is just an entry visa. Does not matter if the visa is good for 1 day or 90 days.

I am sorry; got a bit confused.
As per my plan and advise from all you knowledgeable people, have decided to move to Germany and have my parents-in law coming there and living with me before i apply for EEA FP.

My query is that on what visa will my parents-in-law come to Germany? If I apply for tourist visa, then there will be a limit on staying. As per EU directive, I should be able to call them on my dependent visa (instead of tourist visa) and hence need advise on this topic about its feasibility and overall process please.

[Jambo]

The visa for a family member is just an entry visa. Does not matter if the visa is good for 1 day or 90 days.

I am sorry; got a bit confused.
As per my plan and advise from all you knowledgeable people, have decided to move to Germany and have my parents-in law coming there and living with me before i apply for EEA FP.

My query is that on what visa will my parents-in-law come to Germany? If I apply for tourist visa, then there will be a limit on staying. As per EU directive, I should be able to call them on my dependent visa (instead of tourist visa) and hence need advise on this topic about its feasibility and overall process please.

There is no such thing as a separate dependant visa for family members. The EEA FP is a UK specific visa. For Schengen, there is just short term visa (what you call tourist visa).

[amritkapoor]

The visa for a family member is just an entry visa. Does not matter if the visa is good for 1 day or 90 days.

I am sorry; got a bit confused.
As per my plan and advise from all you knowledgeable people, have decided to move to Germany and have my parents-in law coming there and living with me before i apply for EEA FP.

My query is that on what visa will my parents-in-law come to Germany? If I apply for tourist visa, then there will be a limit on staying. As per EU directive, I should be able to call them on my dependent visa (instead of tourist visa) and hence need advise on this topic about its feasibility and overall process please.

There is no such thing as a separate dependant visa for family members. The EEA FP is a UK specific visa. For Schengen, there is just short term visa (what you call tourist visa).

Thanks for your advise.
It looks a bit strange that its an EU rule that your dependent can live and move around with you but cannot be exercised in an EU country (Germany).

I thought dependents should be allowed to travel to Germany and live there, as long as they are living in the same building and receive money. (Art 2 d) of directive 2004/38 http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 123:EN:PDF)

I am not sure which visa to apply to gain an entry in Germany.

If they apply for short term visa, they will be entitled to live in Germany for 90 days at maximum.
Can they apply for residence certificate once they are in Germany in short term visa or will that be illegal?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

If they apply for short term visa, they will be entitled to live in Germany for 90 days at maximum.
Can they apply for residence certificate once they are in Germany in short term visa or will that be illegal?

A short term visitors visa is what you want. 90 days is irrelevant. Once they are there then they are legally resident with you and the expiry time does not matter. Move on to other questions please!

[raja999]

thx for the information. I am planning to do same. call me dependent
parents and dependent sisters after either moving to Ireland or Germany or France.

1) My question is that can i call my dependent sisters as well who are living with my parents .?
They are dependent on me and i am sending money to them monthly.

2) Which country is easiest to get entry and dependent family visa and which country i should avoid.
As im in IT sector its easier for me to move out and find a job in some of EU countries.

3) can another eu state can reject entry visa for my parents and dependent sister. if they do what should i do..?

thx a lot