ILR catch-22. Is there any way through?!

[sydneylee]

I just received an email from our MP. He says that possibly when UKBA granted Discretionary Leave, they imposed certain restrictions that mean I am NOT entitled to public funds. He asked if he could call to ask them. I said yes, of course, please do.

I re-read my letter from UKBA re: DLR. Under the heading 'entitlements', it says
"You are free to take a job and do not need the permission of any Government Department before doing so. The UK Border Agency permits you to use the National Health Service, Social Services or any other services provided by local authorities: however, providers of such services may impose their own regulations regarding a person's entitlement to use them".

Nowhere on that letter does it mention any restrictions by UKBA so I can't imagine there would be any. Could there be?

Richmond Council never told me of any restrictions they imposed on me, only that I am not entitled to public funds, therefore my English husband isn't either. Could they make such a restriction themselves?

Thank you

[Amber]

You are allowed public funds, the new DLR doesn't allow public funds but yours does. Don't let the MP fob you off.

[michali]

Having read this thread, I wish I could advise but the story is one of the most distressing I have ever read on this forum. Amber, you are amazingly helpful!

[uchida]

Hi Guys,
I do apologise if this thread should've attached somewhere else.

The full gist of my enquiry is: My best friend has lived in the UK illegally for a number of years, he is an illegal entrant, and has stayed underground since he's been here since 1998. He has been known by the authorities all the while, because he hasn't committed any crime since he's been here or registered as an asylum seeker.
He is gay and unwilling to return to his country of origin because of his fear of persecution. He has been in a relationship with a British national since 2010, and they moved in together in July 2012.

He met a solicitor who advised that he applied for ILR(M). The solicitor didn't mention the fact that the applicant is an illegal migrant, but claimed that he entered legally in 1998, but has since lost his passport. The application was rejected mainly on the basis of the fact that HO believes he's an illegal migrant hence issued a removal order, and he wasn't qualified at all for ILR because he hasn't cohabited with his partner for at least 2 years. He was given right to appeal.

The appeal at the first tier was unsuccessful, but the judge believes the relationship is genuine, and the applicant should return to his country of origin and reapply through his partner. My friends' representative argued that he cannot return to his country of origin because his life will be in danger as his country of origin is a well known for being extremely homophobic.

He then made two appeal, again to the first tier and upper tier, which again was unsuccessful, because the judges believe the decision made wasn't unlawful. The upper tier believes if the applicant kept a low profile whilst he made his application from his country, he will be fine.

My mate has been victim of horrid legal advice, because the initial application was doomed for failure anyways.

My questions are: Is it a good idea to seek asylum bearing in mind he has already failed in trying to secure a leave to remain?
The judges and the home office believes he should go back and reapply to enter, but i'm concerned about the 5 year exclusion rule which the home office might enforce one he leaves this shores.
His partner earns over £35,000 a year and should meet all the criteria required to invite his partner here. The processing period will take about 9 months, is it a good idea for him to go back?

Please guys, I would appreciate any advice. He's been fleeced so far by solicitors and barristers. The last barrister who made the requests for appeal charged about £750 for them and was actually asking for an additional £100 just to speak with him on the phone for less than 10 minutes or so.

Please guy!!! i need your opinions

[Amber]

uchida Please continue in your other thread

[sydneylee]

just an update:

I will be going 'home' in a week.

I have heard from Richmond Council who deny any responsibility beyond the callous letter from one of the reps...for which they throw out a halfhearted apology.

I have requested copies of the written and telephone documentation he quotes. It is incomplete, misleading and starts some time after my husband's initial application for Benefits. They tell me I must go to Stage 2 of my complaint before I can involve the Ombudsman. I told him that in order to go to Stage 2, I must have the copies I requested and if they are not forthcoming I will involve the Ombudsman now. I also requested a meeting with the author of the letter so that I can ask her a question or two and she can offer me a sincere apology. I told him that if that was denied me, I would involve the Ombudsman and ask for monetary compensation for the distress she has caused.
(I will in all likelihood involve the Ombudsman at any rate)

Our MP wrote to DWP who denies any knowledge of my existence. I am named in my husband's Pension Credit application, my passport was requested and photocopied three times, his Pension Credit was denied at first because my pension income disqualified him and Richmond Council quotes a number of communications with them with regard to my attempts to get a NINo. Richmond Council claims to have sent them a form re: my NINo application which DWP sent back to them because is wasn't filled out properly. Yet DWP has no record of me at all!

Re: my FLR(O) application. My husband's doctor is supplying a letter regarding my husband's dependence on me (both physically and psychologically) and his depression when I am not there. We have letters from friends and family emphasizing that as well. And my husband has written a letter that overwhelms me and brings tears to my eyes. Unfortunately, UKBA's primary interest is in a person's economical value to the State. Thankfully, my husband is British and so they can't completely ignore him although he is old and of little economical value to the State.

So the battle goes.....

[sydneylee]

A wee question please.

As I was given such a runaround when I tried to get a NINo earlier, my husband inquired as to how I was to go about it when I get home. He was told I merely walk into my local Job Centre and ask for an application.

Ta-daa!!

Is it really that simple or am I going to meet with more complications?

Thanks

[Amber]

I believe that if you ring the JobCentre Plus on 0845 600 0643 they should be able to arrange an application, you may have to attend an Interview to confirm your identity. But yes, it should only take a matter of a week to sort it out.

Use the Ombudsman as much as possible when you've gone through their complaints procedure they're there to help and they will.

[Amber]

Hi sydneylee, is there any update?

[sydneylee]

Hi there,

So sorry to take so long to get back. I returned home on Friday, September 27 to a flat that looked like pigs lived here. Took four days to clean up. The carers were very happy as now they could find clean clothing and bedding.

I visited Kingston Job Centre Plus office on Tuesday, October 1 and was turned away at the welcome desk and told I couldn't apply there, that I must telephone (the same number you gave me above). When I did so, I was told that I was to send in my application for Carer's Allowance with the NINO space left blank and it would be sorted that way. I added a note that this is what I was instructed to do as I didn't have a NINO.

I have since received two letters in one envelope from the same person at Carer's Allowance dated the same day. One letter is 5 pages long and begins with a Ref. Number....... The first sentence begins: "I am writing because we need to know your National Insurance Number (which I had already informed them I didn't have)." This is followed by three pages of questions. The second letter begins with the sentence; "We need more information before we can deal with your claim for Carer's Allowance" and then asks another series of questions. At the top of the first page where the first letter referred to a Ref. Number, the same number is now called my NINO.

They also asked for my passport (the fourth time I have sent it to DWP) and any other documents I may have from the Home Office...what documents they mean, I have no idea. So I have answered the questions and sent my passport once again as well as the letter from UKBA regarding my having Discretionary Leave and one to our MP's office that says I have full access to public funds. This is how my struggle to get a NINo (that began May 31) continues. The above NINO does not fit the format for NINO's so I am guessing...because no-one bothers to tell me what's going on...that TEM means temporary.

My passport was returned to me yesterday, Thursday, October 17 from DWP, Disability and Carers Service. It came, along with a letter dated the 16th from a different person than the two previous letters. On the top where the first letter gave a reference number and the second letter gave the same number, calling it a NINO, this letter says 'your NINO'...followed by a blank space.

So it would appear I was given a reference number which changed to a NINO which has subsequently disappeared altogether.
The letter lets me know that they will issue a decision regarding the Carers Allowance claim as soon as possible. No reference to a NINO is made whatsoever.

I have been contacted by Richmond Council giving me one month to get a NINO before they cut off my husband's Benefits. A month is up in one week.

There is a glimmer of good news. We have been offered a bungalow in Minehead, Somerset. It has a walk-in shower for my husband and has a nice back garden with fruit trees. We accepted quickly! We will be moving on the 28th....I'm packing like crazy!!

Hope I get to live there for awhile.

As far as UKBA is concerned, I just need to get my photo taken and then send in my application for another three years.

That's about it for now.

Except for my husband's kids....that's another horror story.

[Amber]

Well least there is now light at the end of the tunnel. Just stay positive and ask to speak to a supervisor/manager at the job centre, say you feel discriminated against at the time taken to get a NINo.

[sydneylee]

Today I received a letter from Job Centre Plus. I have an appointment for a identity interview on Monday morning. I have our MP to thank for pestering DWP ruthlessly as they were continuing to ignore me. I also received a letter from Carers Allowance saying they have established that I am entitled and when my NINO comes through, I will start to get Carers Allowance back-dated to October 1. So things are looking up a bit.

We move to Minehead on Tuesday. I am going to get myself a little dog and maybe a couple of chickens and enjoy my back garden in the country.

It's been a tough ride so far but it's getting better. I have my FLR(O) application ready to send to UKBA and I'm not going to spend a minute fretting about the outcome.

I am going to start to sort out and prepare my case to present to the Ombudsman. I will leave it in his hands and let the chips fall where they may.

I am so grateful for the help you given me and I will keep you posted as to how things go with the Ombudsman.

Thank you so much.

[Amber]

That's much better, I'm very pleased things are starting to look up. I'm sure in no time, you'll be relaxed and able to enjoy life without all this worry and needless trouble. A dog is a fabulous pet and best friend, whose sure to keep you sane.

Do keep us posted.

[sydneylee]

Guess what I have

I have a NINo, thanks to our MP.

It should have come Special Delivery complete with a Brass Band and Twirling Batons

We have moved to the country and I am so much more relaxed.

I have a life to get on with....and a rescue dog to find.....and a bungalow to decorate and paint....and in the Spring, a garden to tend to.

We have blue tits and robins visiting all the time...and a little brook running past the bottom of our back garden.

Yesterday, I drove to the top of Exmoor and ran around in the rain, laughing and crying at the same time !!

I love it here !!

Richmond Council is ignoring it's own deadline for responding to Stage 2 of my complaint.

I am putting together my paperwork to present to the Ombudsman re: Richmond Council and DWP. I will then wash my hands of the whole sordid mess and let him do with it what he will.

I cannot express enough my gratitude for this Forum and the help and encouragement I have received here.

I will keep you posted re: the Ombudsman.

Thanks so much,

from a Canadian...and a little bit British...country bumpkin.

Sydney

[Amber]

I am glad things are now much more positive for you Sydney. Please do let us know what happens - Ombudsman and extension of DLR.

Stay safe and take care.

[kafuffle]

Hello, this is Sydney. I have since deleted the email address I used to sign in as sydneylee so am now 'kafuffle' as I am certainly in a kafuffle. I can't believe I am back here asking for help again. Amber, you helped me through so much and I dearly hope you are still here.

I did mention to a degree the difficulty I had with my husband's children but what I didn't mention to any extent was that my marriage was suffering as well. Unfortunately, my husband's sons learned well from their father as to how to treat a woman as my husband is selfish to the point of narcissism. I don't want to go into detail except to say that the move to a small town was my last hope to save my marriage.

By the time we had moved, I was exhausted to a degree I have never felt and hope never to feel again. I was entitled to 6 weeks respite per year in which the Council would pay the lion's share for my husband's care in a care home while I recuperated. He refused, saying that this was his home and if I needed respite, I must leave and find it somewhere else, that he would never leave his home. He was told by the carer's support group, his carers and my doctor that I was close to needing hospitalization. It didn't matter to him. At this time my FLR(O) application was at Home Office as was my passport. I explained to my husband that the only place for me to go for a rest other than my own home was back to Canada. And I explained many times that if I asked for my passport back, my application would be torn up. It didn't matter. I asked for my passport and in February this year I left my home and my adopted country. It broke my heart. I had worked so hard to stay. I was diagnosed with Adrenal Exhaustion and have been left with much reduced stamina and strength. I could barely walk across a room because of pain and fatigue and slowly over 7 months began to feel like I would be okay. In the meantime, my husband has had carers coming into the home four times a day and is managing fairly well although it is thought that he should be in care. A month ago he was rushed to hospital with kidney failure. He is home again but is being watched carefully as to his safety being alone. By this time, I was feeling much better although will never have the stamina I once did and need to monitor how much I try to do and how much stress I am under. I am also much wiser.

So I am back in the UK, with permission to visit for six months. I am a lodger in a beautiful big Edwardian home with a lovely landlady. I am close to my husband's bungalow but will never live with him again. I have made it very clear that my point in being here is to help to get him out and about. I have said that I will take him for short day trips and shopping and out for tea....but only when it suits my schedule and my health and only so long as he is civil to me. That is the best commitment to our marriage that I can make. He is accepting the arrangement reluctantly. Not being in control of me is very difficult for him.

But I have another reason for being here. What I learned about myself while back in Canada is that I don't belong there anymore. I belong in England. When I adopted it, it was for real and deep.

That's what I need help with. I can go back to Canada after my six months visit and apply for a UK Ancestry Visa as my grandfather was born in Lancashire and I have begun to gather the required birth certificates. I like that idea as it is not dependent on my husband. (his life expectancy is 2 more years at best and he will probably need to go into care before that). On the other hand it is a work visa. I do have my pensions and have a small....really small...online shop) but will be 70 soon and that might cause a problem with getting an Ancestry Visa. And no savings either. Is there another option for me? Can I apply for a Spouse Visa? Can I apply for FLR or ILR on compassionate grounds because of my husband's medical condition? If so, how will they look at the fact that I cannot live at the same address? My original post subject was "Is there any way through?" I guess I'm asking the question again.

I hope someone has a suggestion or two 'cause I want to stay so much.

Thanks in advance and sorry for the rambling

[vinny]

Unfortunately, the rules do not generally permit visitors to switch to a different category from inside the UK.

I think that the main reason you were previously granted discretionary leave instead of FLR(M) was because you initially entered the UK as a visitor.

As a visitor now, you will have similar/more difficulties with switching categories in the UK.

If you are seperated from your husband, then UK Ancestry visa (186-193) may be an option. Apply in Canada. There is no upper age limit, but you must be able to work and intend to take or seek employment in the United Kingdom.

[kafuffle]

Thank you Vinny. I have finally realized that it was likely because I had entered as a visitor that I was granted Discretionary Leave. I was very confused, overwhelmed, frightened and exhausted....not to mention, naive throughout all of that.

So whether I apply through the Spouse Visa channel or the UK Ancestry channel, I will have to do it from Canada, if I understand correctly. I am prepared for that. I believe Ancestry is less expensive and quicker and it gives 5 years without having to renew. I have already begun to gather the necessary birth certificates.....grandfather in the UK, father in Canada and my long-form birth certificate. I don't think I'll have any difficulty with that part. I have guaranteed income of approximately £620 per month through my pension from Canada and my UK State Pension. I can generate another £200 to £300 through my online shop and eBay selling, possibly more. Would that satisfy 'working', do you think? Also I understand that there is not a ceiling with regard to age but I will soon be 70 and that might influence a decision all the same. That worries me a bit. Will the fact that I have little or no savings be offset by the guaranteed pensions, I wonder?

The spouse visa is considerably more costly and time-consuming but are there advantages I should be considering? With this visa, if/when my husband dies....which, to be realistic, is likely to happen before 2 1/2 years have elapsed, let alone 5....where does that leave me? Would I have applied in vain?

I understand, I think, that I could just go back and forth to visit as long as my husband is alive to be of whatever help I can be to him and that I could likely do this twice in one year because of his illness and need for my help. But a trip twice a year from the UK to western Canada is harrowing (car, coach, coach, 10 hour flight, bus, ferry, bus, car and lots of waiting...26 hours on the go in total), not to mention, expensive. And my online shop would have to be closed all the time, hence no income beyond pension. Not a viable choice. And it doesn't help in my desire to live here even without him.

Any input gratefully appreciated. Thank you kindly.

[vinny]

See also UK ancestry > Employed or seeking employment in UK and Indefinite leave employment requirement.

[kafuffle]

Another thought.

Apparently jigsaw puzzles are a great help in keeping the mind active for a disabled person and can help to stave off dementia so I have tried to involve my husband in this activity but he is not interested. His business for many years was mail order followed by an online shop.

There is very little, if anything, that he would be able to do on his own because of left-side paralysis and weakening eyesight but I thought I might be able to help him open a little shop on eBay. He is keen to do this as it would make him feel more useful and in charge. And it would help with expenses as well. My worry is that it may be considered my business as I would be doing most, if not all, of the work even though the shop would be in his name and attached to his PayPal account and bank account.

I most certainly do not want to jeopardize myself. I have put my online shop on vacation mode and am not monitoring it. I would like to help open a shop on eBay for my husband but I don't want to seem to be 'working' as my visitor visa does not allow this.

Is this a good idea or might it cause problems for me. Any thoughts please.

[vinny]

If you are in the UK on a spouse visa (Appendix FM-SE, Guidance) and your husband dies, then you may apply for ILR as a Bereaved partner.

If you successfully switched from visitor to FLR(FP), then I'm not sure what will happen if your husband dies.

[kafuffle]

I have been looking at the 10-year route information. It seems to be a way to apply from within the UK and is provided, in part, for those who do not qualify otherwise. Is there EVER success switching from visitor to family visa? It is a bit confusing because although the answer seems to be 'no', the 10 year route seems to be for those who do not meet all of the requirements. I think, as a visitor, I fall into that category. Is that correct, do you think? My husband's medical condition and his need to have me here for psychological reasons (there is documentation from his physician that he falls into depression when I am not here) as well as for company and transport might be enough extenuating reason to allow me to stay.

If it is at all possible to apply through the 10 year route, I am willing to take the risk of applying but I would first like to know if it is allowed (re: visitor) and, if so, is it EVER successful. Also, I could not find information on what would happen if my husband dies within that 10 year period...as it is likely to happen.

Thank you

[kafuffle]

Still searching the web for similar situations...switching from visitor to FLR(FP) 10 year route.

I'm hoping someone can help me decide if this is possible for me.

[kafuffle]

I just finished reading the Immigration Directorate Instruction Family Migration Appendix FM, Section 1.0b, Family Life (as a partner or parent) & Private Life: 10 year Route. (my eyes will be crossed and my brain frazzled forever!) which does indeed state that Leave to Remain will not be granted to visitors. However there are exceptions.

Section EX - exceptions to certain eligibility requirements for Leave to Remain as a partner. EX 1(b) states that EX 1 applies if the applicant has a genuine and subsisting relationship with a partner who is in the UK as a British Citizen....etc.and there are insurmountable obstacles to family life with that partner continuing outside of the UK
EX 2: "Insurmountable obstacles" means the very significant difficulties which would be faced by the applicant or their partner in continuing their family life together outside the UK and which could not be overcome or would entail very serious hardship for the applicant or partner.

My husband cannot fly at the altitude or distance required to reach Canada due to Peripheral Artery Disease. There is the probability of developing Deep Vein Thrombosis which would likely kill him. He would not get the level of care in Canada nor would I receive the level of support that is available here. He would not be eligible for provincial medical insurance for 3-6 months and private medical insurance costs are prohibitive. It would be many months before we would be eligible for accommodation that would accommodate a wheelchair. Income would be dramatically reduced as there is no such thing as Attendance Allowance nor Carer's Allowance. My husband is comfortable in his own home and adjustments have been made to doors, shower, ramps, handrails etc. We would not have that for a very long time. He attends Stroke Club weekly which gives him access to others with similar disabilities and it gives him encouragement and company. In all likelihood my husband has 2 or 3 years of life left before succumbing to another massive stroke, heart disease or pneumonia. He may need to go into care before that. It is not possible for him to emigrate.

The only complication is that I do not live in the bungalow with him. I have rented a room elsewhere. Our small home is a revolving door with four carers daily. My husband cannot live in quiet for any length of time so has TV or music on at all hours....24 hours a day...and at ear-splitting volume. This obsession has worsened since the stroke and has become, to his thinking, a non-negotiable necessity. He is also controlling and demanding. This has also worsened since the stroke. Hence I get no rest, little sleep and no peace and quiet. (The bedroom is too small for his hospital bed and all his paraphernalia and a bed for me too so my bed is in a small storage room). Without a quiet place to sleep, rest and recuperate, I will crash as I have done in the past. I need to continue to rent this room. However, I do spend time with him during the day, although not every day, and I take him to appointments, shopping, out for tea and on day trips. There is no-one else to do this for him. If need be, I can stay at the bungalow a few nights a week if this is required.

I cannot imagine an application....FLR(FP)....failing but I may be wrong. Could anyone offer some encouragement please....or caution if needed.

I am in awe of those of you who study all of this complex immigration stuff and share your knowledge with others. Thank you so much

[kafuffle]

I am feeling fairly comfortable about making an FLR (FP) application but would dearly appreciate it someone could take a minute to read my recap below and give an opinion please.

I have recapped my circumstances here so that you don't have to read through all four pages of this post.

November 27, 2009 – entered the UK from Canada as a visitor. Leave to Enter for 6 months, no work or recourse to public funds.

March, 2010 – married British husband

July (?), 2010 – received letter from Home Office. Told that I had no right to be in the UK and must leave or appeal. Reason: came as a visitor and HO believed marriage was not genuine and that I did not live at my husband's address.

August (?), 2010 – Appealed in First Tier Tribunal. Acknowledged stupidity and naivete. Had assumed permission to marry, congratulations letter from HO, biometrics and payment of £495 meant everything was okay. I did not know that visitors were allowed to marry but not stay with spouse. Should have checked the rules but didn't. Not an excuse, just the truth of it.

November, 2010 Tribunal ruled in my favour. Proved it was a genuine marriage and judge said no point in making two pensioners leave to start a new life in another country. Given 3 years Discretionary Leave until November, 2013

The following has nothing directly to do with immigration but does have bearing on my position now.

April 2011 – phone call from son in Canada telling me he has cancer. Returned to Canada May for visit two weeks (son is now in remission)

October 2012 – phone call from daughter in Canada telling me that her husband of 23 years had cheated with her best friend and she was in the midst of divorce battle. Returned to Canada to visit – two weeks

January, 2013 – husband suffered a massive stroke. Hospitalized for five months. During those five months I worked tirelessly to find accommodation suitable for a wheelchair as we lived two flights up with no lift. Also found out my husband had a mountain of debt and now had only State Pension. I had my Old Age Pension from Canada. Had to sell belongings to pay rent, Council Tax, utilities and debt. Also went to hospital to visit each day – two hour bus ride each way. Was becoming exhausted and depressed, little sleep.

During this time I tried to get Pension Credit for my husband as well as help with rent and council tax. Passport taken three times by DWP and twice by Council. Also perused by Citizen's Advice. Told by all three that I was not eligible for public funds. My husband was denied Pension Credit and Council refused housing and council tax help. Said as long as I lived at the premises, he would get nothing. I fought for NINo as advised. They sent back my payment and would not give me a NINo. Council demanded proof in the form of an airline ticket that I had left the premises. Only then would my 76 year old disabled husband get help.

I sent them the proof they demanded and left the country, my home and my husband and returned to Canada end of June, 2013. Immediately he received Pension Credit, housing and council tax exemption.

While there I came to this website and asked for help. Found out from Amber, to whom I will be ever grateful, that I had been eligible for public funds all along, that my residence permit had been misread by everyone I had asked help from. I should never have been forced to leave my home. So I sold the furniture and vehicle I had just purchased and returned home.

I had been emailing the MP for our area while still in Canada and with his help I finally received my NINo.

By this time we had secured a bungalow in a small village through the Seaside and Country Homes Scheme. So when I arrived home, I had to pack up and prepare to move, end of October, 2013. Our new home had been lived in for many years by a heavy smoker and needed paint and thorough cleaning. I did this.

I also filled out my FLM (O) application and sent it along with my passport to HO.

What I haven't mentioned and will not mention in detail is that my marriage was in serious trouble and had been from almost the beginning. This got worse after the stroke. Also I was exhausted and needed respite. I wasn't allowed it. In December of 2014, I asked for my passport so I could go back to Canada to rest and get well as I had no place to go here in England. My passport was returned and my FLR (O) application was discarded. I bought a ticket back to Canada. Before time to leave, I was told I could have respite after all. So I tore up my ticket and re-applied for FLR (O). Still needed respite, falling deeper into exhaustion and depression, unable to eat or sleep. Was denied it again. Asked for passport back once again. Again my application was discarded. This time I left, February, 2014.

Diagnosed with Adrenal Exhaustion. Under doctor's care for 9 months in Canada, I have recuperated as far as I ever will.

Returned to UK October as a 6 months visitor. Living apart from my husband, renting a room nearby. See him daily, take him for drives, day trips, shopping etc. There is no-one else to do this for him. Can't live at the bungalow as I can't get enough rest and quiet.

This is where I want to live, now and after my husband's death (prognosis, 2 years). So my question is, is it likely that an application – FLR (FP) – be likely to succeed. Extraordinary Circumstances, of course, being my husband's health and impossibility to emigrate and his need for my assistance.

I hope this recap will give someone reading it enough information to help me decide for certain if I should go this route. The £601 fee is all that I have left in the bank. Living off Pensions now and can't afford to waste a penny.

Thank you so much.