EEA 2 refused

[resident001]

Our application was refused today. Unmarried partner with existing Family Permit.
They stated that we did not provide evidence that I (EEA national) am a qualified person, and that they need work contract, letter from employer or similar. The strange thing is, that I supplied a letter from my employer already with the application. However they did not mention this letter nor did they return it with the rest of the documents.

They also did mention that the application is refused as we did not supply sufficient evidence that we are in a lasting relationship. We submitted the same documents as in our family permit application.
We also supplied a letter from our landlady abroad with the application, but this original letter was also not mentioned in the refusal, nor was the letter returned to us.

We have the right to appeal.
Any advice would be very welcome.
Thanks![/img]

[Jambo]

I would write back to the caseworker who refused the application and ask for reconsideration explaining the relevant documents have been provided with the original application. You might want to attach another letter from the employer confirming he has supplied such letter before and reconfirming the employment now, just in case they lost your papers.

In parallel, you might want to appeal (there is a 10 days deadline to file the appeal).

[euroguys]

As a suggestion generaly I have taken to photographing all documents sent to almost anywhere and further shots of them entering the envelope, the post office and recorded delivery, stamps etc

I do this with till receipts from supermarkets for household Spam etc as it means i have a permanent record for warrenty plus a date stamp of the file

[Obie]

Some refusal don't give you an option to apply for reconsideration as opposed to before. They simply ask you to appeal, reapply or leave.

I hope you took copies of the document you provided.

On which basis did they refuse you. Regulation 17(1), or 17(4b)?

Did they say you did not meet the requirement of Regulation 8(5) or 17(1 a)?

[resident001]

Some refusal don't give you an option to apply for reconsideration as opposed to before. They simply ask you to appeal, reapply or leave.

I hope you took copies of the document you provided.

On which basis did they refuse you. Regulation 17(1), or 17(4b)?

Did they say you did not meet the requirement of Regulation 8(5) or 17(1 a)?

Yes, we took photocopies. They refused due to 8(5) and 17 (4) (b).

Would you know if we can apply for reconsideration? The refusal letter makes no mention of the right to apply for reconsideration.
I could also attach my work contract and the last three month of payslips (I only just started my job when we made the application).
Thank you for your help.

[resident001]

Some refusal don't give you an option to apply for reconsideration as opposed to before. They simply ask you to appeal, reapply or leave.

I hope you took copies of the document you provided.

On which basis did they refuse you. Regulation 17(1), or 17(4b)?

Did they say you did not meet the requirement of Regulation 8(5) or 17(1 a)?

Yes, we took photocopies. They refused due to 8(5) and 17 (4) (b).

Would you know if we can apply for reconsideration? The refusal letter makes no mention of the right to apply for reconsideration.
I could also attach my work contract and the last three month of payslips (I only just started my job when we made the application).
Thank you for your help.

They also mention "Therefore, it has been decided to refuse to issue the confirmation that you seek with reference to Regulation 6..."

[OLUMUYIWA]

Our application was refused today. Unmarried partner with existing Family Permit.
They stated that we did not provide evidence that I (EEA national) am a qualified person, and that they need work contract, letter from employer or similar. The strange thing is, that I supplied a letter from my employer already with the application. However they did not mention this letter nor did they return it with the rest of the documents.

They also did mention that the application is refused as we did not supply sufficient evidence that we are in a lasting relationship. We submitted the same documents as in our family permit application.
We also supplied a letter from our landlady abroad with the application, but this original letter was also not mentioned in the refusal, nor was the letter returned to us.

We have the right to appeal.
Any advice would be very welcome.
Thanks![/img]

I have been looking for a way to prevent the above from happening when i submit my application. I mean the UKBA is notorious for losing applicant's documents and pretending it was never included in the application in the first place.
Is there any authority one can take all the documents to in order to certify or notarize (if i can use that word) that this particular list of documents were actually included in the application sent . For example , does the post office offer such service , or can one take the documents to a law farm to certify that they are included in the package before beign sent off ?? I hope i made sense .

[askmeplz82]

I have been looking for a way to prevent the above from happening when i submit my application. I mean the UKBA is notorious for losing applicant's documents and pretending it was never included in the application in the first place.
Is there any authority one can take all the documents to in order to certify or notarize (if i can use that word) that this particular list of documents were actually included in the application sent . For example , does the post office offer such service , or can one take the documents to a law farm to certify that they are included in the package before beign sent off ?? I hope i made sense .[/quote]

--------------------------------------

very easy, record a video ( with voice ) while putting all the required documents in the envelope, put a newspaper on side to prove the date. this way you can prove what was included in the envelope on that date you send

[OLUMUYIWA]

I have been looking for a way to prevent the above from happening when i submit my application. I mean the UKBA is notorious for losing applicant's documents and pretending it was never included in the application in the first place.
Is there any authority one can take all the documents to in order to certify or notarize (if i can use that word) that this particular list of documents were actually included in the application sent . For example , does the post office offer such service , or can one take the documents to a law farm to certify that they are included in the package before beign sent off ?? I hope i made sense .

--------------------------------------

very easy, record a video ( with voice ) while putting all the required documents in the envelope, put a newspaper on side to prove the date. this way you can prove what was included in the envelope on that date you send[/quote]

Thats not enough proof . It can be argued that you may have removed a particular document from the package after you stopped recording the video . I think it's best if an authority verify and certify for you . But which authority might do it for me is what i am clueless about .

[Imshzd]

Scan all documents before submitting to HO.

[OLUMUYIWA]

Scan all documents before submitting to HO.

We know you can scan the documents , but you have to remember that when your application is refused, and you need to re-submit all your documents again for reconsideration or an appeal, you can not submit the scanned copy in lieu of the original document lost by UKBA , as it is not acceptable . I know you want to say "..but i will tell them i have already submitted the original copy which they lost , so its not my fault". Well, my friend , in this case , its your word against theirs , how do you prove that you actually submitted the original document . That you scanned it for your own keeps doesn't prove it , neither does the fact you video recorded yourself putting them in an envelope.
So what is the best approach to prevent this? I need someone in the house who has experience in legal matters to give me an idea please.

[euroguys]

My personal view is that if you photo the supporting documents and keep scan copy ,you will almost certainly win on appeal when ther only grounds are refusal on evidence you have in fact demostrably included

Unless we are suggesting something more sinister beyond "policy" and incompatence

[Imshzd]

Scan all documents before submitting to HO.

We know you can scan the documents , but you have to remember that when your application is refused, and you need to re-submit all your documents again for reconsideration or an appeal, you can not submit the scanned copy in lieu of the original document lost by UKBA , as it is not acceptable . I know you want to say "..but i will tell them i have already submitted the original copy which they lost , so its not my fault". Well, my friend , in this case , its your word against theirs , how do you prove that you actually submitted the original document . That you scanned it for your own keeps doesn't prove it , neither does the fact you video recorded yourself putting them in an envelope.
So what is the best approach to prevent this? I need someone in the house who has experience in legal matters to give me an idea please.

Read this link that you are not alone in this boat.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... 026904.pdf

And I believe

In court you can prove it that HO lost your documents,if you mentioned those missed documents in your application form.

[OLUMUYIWA]

Scan all documents before submitting to HO.

We know you can scan the documents , but you have to remember that when your application is refused, and you need to re-submit all your documents again for reconsideration or an appeal, you can not submit the scanned copy in lieu of the original document lost by UKBA , as it is not acceptable . I know you want to say "..but i will tell them i have already submitted the original copy which they lost , so its not my fault". Well, my friend , in this case , its your word against theirs , how do you prove that you actually submitted the original document . That you scanned it for your own keeps doesn't prove it , neither does the fact you video recorded yourself putting them in an envelope.
So what is the best approach to prevent this? I need someone in the house who has experience in legal matters to give me an idea please.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... 026904.pdf


In court you can prove it that HO lost your documents,if you mentioned those missed documents in your application form.

I read and re-read the document in the link you provided, but i am unable to find where it points out that In court you can prove it that HO lost your documents,if you mentioned those missed documents in your application form, or is it just me beign blonde ?

[Imshzd]

May be this link cover your case.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 65145bcab3


Best thing you could do,Complaint,Complaint if ukba lost your documents.

I am sure they never bin the documents just it was misplaced,
And if you make a complain then they will trace and sent it back to you.

But HO has the powers to retain the documents if they feel or believe that these documents are fake.

[Imshzd]

Scan all documents before submitting to HO.

We know you can scan the documents , but you have to remember that when your application is refused, and you need to re-submit all your documents again for reconsideration or an appeal, you can not submit the scanned copy in lieu of the original document lost by UKBA , as it is not acceptable . I know you want to say "..but i will tell them i have already submitted the original copy which they lost , so its not my fault". Well, my friend , in this case , its your word against theirs , how do you prove that you actually submitted the original document . That you scanned it for your own keeps doesn't prove it , neither does the fact you video recorded yourself putting them in an envelope.
So what is the best approach to prevent this? I need someone in the house who has experience in legal matters to give me an idea please.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... 026904.pdf


In court you can prove it that HO lost your documents,if you mentioned those missed documents in your application form.

I read and re-read the document in the link you provided, but i am unable to find where it points out that In court you can prove it that HO lost your documents,if you mentioned those missed documents in your application form, or is it just me beign blonde ?

The link just for sharing the HO information.


What I said that you can prove in the court if you have the scan copies that you submitted the originals to HO but HO lost it or retained it.


And I edited with the explanations.

[dalebutt]

Only a few applicants experience missing documents during a family permit application, preparing for such an uncommon mistake is like setting it in stone for your application.

I don't see any reason to be unnecessarily paranoid, when applying for an family permit, all supporting documents will be noted, you will be asked to crosscheck them, if you are happy with it, you sign it, and they sign to confirm the documents you have presented, you will be given a copy listing all the documents you have provided and they will also retain a copy, what's there to be worried about then?

[Imshzd]

Most common compliant that HO lost my xyz documents.


Yes it could be possible but I am 100% sure HO never bin any peace of paper.
Just misplaced or over looked at the time of dispatch.

[askmeplz82]

I have been looking for a way to prevent the above from happening when i submit my application. I mean the UKBA is notorious for losing applicant's documents and pretending it was never included in the application in the first place.
Is there any authority one can take all the documents to in order to certify or notarize (if i can use that word) that this particular list of documents were actually included in the application sent . For example , does the post office offer such service , or can one take the documents to a law farm to certify that they are included in the package before beign sent off ?? I hope i made sense .

--------------------------------------

very easy, record a video ( with voice ) while putting all the required documents in the envelope, put a newspaper on side to prove the date. this way you can prove what was included in the envelope on that date you send

Thats not enough proof . It can be argued that you may have removed a particular document from the package after you stopped recording the video . I think it's best if an authority verify and certify for you . But which authority might do it for me is what i am clueless about .[/quote]

well if you even record the tracking number ( u need to purchased SD envelope before ) and seal it. There is no way you can open that package without damaging the packet completely.

[OLUMUYIWA]

Only a few applicants experience missing documents during a family permit application, preparing for such an uncommon mistake is like setting it in stone for your application.

I don't see any reason to be unnecessarily paranoid, when applying for an family permit, all supporting documents will be noted, you will be asked to crosscheck them, if you are happy with it, you sign it, and they sign to confirm the documents you have presented, you will be given a copy listing all the documents you have provided and they will also retain a copy, what's there to be worried about then?

We are talking about EEA2 Application here , not EEA Family permit.

[OLUMUYIWA]

What i am hoping someone will confirm for me , if its possible, is whether a public Notary office or an OSIC Registered solicitor offer such verification/certification service, where they compare an already drafted list of documents with the actual contents of the application package, and then append their official stamp as well as signature on the drafted list itself after they are satisfied that it matches the supporting documents included in the application . This stamped and signed list is then photocopied in triplicates , the Notary office keeps a copy , one copy is kept by the applicant , and the third copy is attached with a cover letter on the letter-headed paper of the notary office/solicitor , stating that the list herewith confirms that the documents mentioned therein have been included in the said application. This is then posted to HO with the whole application.
Therefore , when there is any dispute regarding missing documents in the future, the Notary office/solicitor can back you up and attest to the fact that they personally verified and certified the contents of the application before it was sent off.

Well, this is just my own imagination, whether or not there is any such service by any dignified authority remains to be seen .

Is there anyone in the house whose main area is in Legal/Notary field , who can shed more light on the above for us ?

[Obie]

Yes, we took photocopies. They refused due to 8(5) and 17 (4) (b).

Would you know if we can apply for reconsideration? The refusal letter makes no mention of the right to apply for reconsideration.
I could also attach my work contract and the last three month of payslips (I only just started my job when we made the application).
Thank you for your help.

If you took copies, that is fine.

No need to really ask for reconsideration if that option was not given, although you could still do it, and draw to their attention the fact that the originals of these documents were sent to them.

I will strongly suggest that you file the appeal.

I beleive the refusal was made on the wrong legal basis. given the fact that an EEA family permit had already been issued, the question of an Extensive examination had already been undertaken. She falls under regulation 7(3). The issue of residence card is therefore not under Regulation 17(4) (5) but under 17(1), as she is a family member.

A relatively short employment should have been sufficient.

[resident001]

Yes, we took photocopies. They refused due to 8(5) and 17 (4) (b).

Would you know if we can apply for reconsideration? The refusal letter makes no mention of the right to apply for reconsideration.
I could also attach my work contract and the last three month of payslips (I only just started my job when we made the application).
Thank you for your help.

If you took copies, that is fine.

No need to really ask for reconsideration if that option was not given, although you could still do it, and draw to their attention the fact that the originals of these documents were sent to them.

I will strongly suggest that you file the appeal.

I beleive the refusal was made on the wrong legal basis. given the fact that an EEA family permit had already been issued, the question of an Extensive examination had already been undertaken. She falls under regulation 7(3). The issue of residence card is therefore not under Regulation 17(4) (5) but under 17(1), as she is a family member.

A relatively short employment should have been sufficient.

Thank you for your advice.
I would have some more questions and would appreciate your input :
1.) As the family permit of my partner valid date is now expired (while it was with UKBA), does that still mean that Section 7 (3) is still applicable as long as I am exercising treaty rights and we are still in a durable relationship?

2.)If we appeal, can we include any new evidence e.g. payslips, work contract, bank statements, which would help our claim, and which were not available at the date of application?

3.)If we reapply, would the fact, that my partners family permit is now out of date negatively affect our application e.g. no COA with right to work or Section 7(3) - her being treated as a family member in a new application?

Your help is very much appreciated.

[Obie]

I will answer the first 2 questions in the affirmative and the last one in the negative.

[resident001]

I will answer the first 2 questions in the affirmative and the last one in the negative.

Thank you for your confirmation.
We plan to send a reconsideration request in parallel with an appeal.
I drafted a reconsideration letter and would welcome your input(sorry, its a long read, but maybe other members can benefit from it in the future):

REQUEST FOR RECONSIDERATION: REFUSAL OF RESIDENCE CARD FOR FAMILY MEMBER OF EEA NATIONAL

Home office reference: xxxxxxx

Dear Ms xxxxx,
A refusal letter received by us from UKBA indicates the refusal of an EEA family member residence card for (Applicant) on the basis that (Sponsor) is not a qualified person under Regulation 6 of the Immigration (EEA) regulations 2006. The letter also indicates that the residence card was rejected referring to Regulation 8 (5) and Regulation 17 4 (b) for the applicant did not prove to be in a durable relationship with (Sponsor).

We believe that this decision has been made in error, as evidence documents were not considered and that the wrong Regulations were used in the decision making.

Firstly, to prove that (Sponsor) is a qualified person under Regulation 6 (b) a letter of employment was included in the residence card application. This letter confirms full time employment of (Sponsor) with (Company). This letter was not listed in the Notice of Immigration Decision as a document being considered. Details of employment, including contact details of the employer were also listed in Section 6 “Your EEA National Family Member (Employment)” of the application form. It was also indicated in Section 6 of the application form, that a letter of employment is included in the application. For your convenience we included a photocopy of an employment letter, as the original has not been returned to us yet.
We also included a photocopy of (Sponsor) employment contract, amendment of the employment contract and copies of the last three month payslips (this was not submitted in the original application, as those documents were not available at that time, and serve only the purpose of an informed decision making).

Secondly, we believe that the wrong regulations regarding the issuance of the residence card have been applied, as (Applicant) was issued with a EEA Family Permit before coming to the UK. The issuance of a Family Permit for an extended family member already encompasses a thoroughly investigation of personal circumstances, as outlined in Regulation 12 (2). Upon issuance of a Family Permit to an extended family member, the family permit holder is considered a recognised family member and must be treated as family member under UK law. Therefore UKBA should have applied Regulation 17 (1) in the issuance of the residence card. The holder of a Family Permit draws rights under EU law.

17.—(1) The Secretary of State must issue a residence card to a person who is not an EEA national and is the family member of a qualified person or of an EEA national with a permanent right of residence under regulation 15 on application and production of—

(a)a valid passport; and

(b)proof that the applicant is such a family member.

We believe that we satisfied Regulation 17 (a) by submitting the original valid (Applicant' country) passport of (Applicant) to UKBA, and 17 (b) by submitting the valid EEA Family Permit of (Applicant). In addition to those required documents we also submitted evidence of continuing cohabitation in a marriage like relationship covering the years 2008 – 2013. All those documents were available to UKBA at the time of decision. Extensive documentation has also already been provided in the course of the Family Permit application and should be on record with UKBA.

Lastly, as (Sponsor) proved to be a worker under Regulation 4 (a) he is therefore a qualified person under Regulation 6 (b) and (Applicant) is a family member under Regulation 7(3), a Residence Card must be issued. A refusal of the issuance of a residence card would violate the right of free movement of (Sponsor) under EU law.

I would appreciate a prompt reconsideration of the decision in light of this error, in the hopes that further appeal or judicial review will not be necessary.