URGENT-Need Advice from Americans on Past Earnings Format

[apeterso925]

I am about to submit my application to the HO (going through a solicitor, but would greatly appreciate advice from folks here too).

I am using the period March06-March07. My solicitor already has all of my documents and for past earnings, I am submitting:

1) W2 that will cover March-December 06
2) Online wage slips (signed, stamped, dated) for the entire period
3) Letter from my employer that verifies the amounts on all the wage slips
4) Bank statements for the entire period

I have been going under the assumption that my "past earnings" are my total salaried earnings for the period claimed, before tax. However, a fellow forum member interpreted past earnings as the total amount that is taxed.

For Americans, does that mean we can only include our income after paying for things like health insurance (which are deducted before tax)? What are other Americans submitting? Your total taxable earnings or only the earnings that were actually taxed?

My wage slips show both amounts, but of course my W2 will match the smaller taxed amount.

[EdgeHillMole]

I have been going under the assumption that my "past earnings" are my total salaried earnings for the period claimed, before tax. However, a fellow forum member interpreted past earnings as the total amount that is taxed.

For Americans, does that mean we can only include our income after paying for things like health insurance (which are deducted before tax)? What are other Americans submitting? Your total taxable earnings or only the earnings that were actually taxed?

My wage slips show both amounts, but of course my W2 will match the smaller taxed amount.

I submitted total salaried earnings for the period claimed, as they asked for gross earnings/earned income. Earned income means the amount a person has earned. Although we pay some of our salary into health and 401Ks pre-tax, we still worked to earn that money. So it should be counted.

Unearned income is a different matter entirely. If you also receive any unearned income directly from the company (Dividends, shares, stocks, allowances), you will want to carefully read page 23 of the HSMP guidance notes, since these are a bit trickier.

[apeterso925]

Thank you! That answers my question perfectly and that's what I thought as well. Have you gotten approval yet or still waiting?

My income is all straight forward...just regular wages and 2 bonuses, so no weird dividends or anything.

I'm just confused about the requirement of the W2 because of course, that only shows my income minus my pre-tax deductions.

I have been going under the assumption that my "past earnings" are my total salaried earnings for the period claimed, before tax. However, a fellow forum member interpreted past earnings as the total amount that is taxed.

For Americans, does that mean we can only include our income after paying for things like health insurance (which are deducted before tax)? What are other Americans submitting? Your total taxable earnings or only the earnings that were actually taxed?

My wage slips show both amounts, but of course my W2 will match the smaller taxed amount.

I submitted total salaried earnings for the period claimed, as they asked for gross earnings/earned income. Earned income means the amount a person has earned. Although we pay some of our salary into health and 401Ks pre-tax, we still worked to earn that money. So it should be counted.

Unearned income is a different matter entirely. If you also receive any unearned income directly from the company (Dividends, shares, stocks, allowances), you will want to carefully read page 23 of the HSMP guidance notes, since these are a bit trickier.

[EdgeHillMole]

Have you gotten approval yet or still waiting?

Approved and already living in the UK.

[hnbird]

[quote="EdgeHillMole"][quote="apeterso925"]I have been going under the assumption that my "past earnings" are my total salaried earnings for the period claimed, before tax. However, a fellow forum member interpreted past earnings as the total amount that is taxed.

For Americans, does that mean we can only include our income after paying for things like health insurance (which are deducted before tax)? What are other Americans submitting? Your total taxable earnings or only the earnings that were actually taxed?

My wage slips show both amounts, but of course my W2 will match the smaller taxed amount.[/quote]

I submitted total salaried earnings for the period claimed, as they asked for gross earnings/earned income. Earned income means the amount a person has earned. Although we pay some of our salary into health and 401Ks pre-tax, we still worked to earn that money. So it should be counted.

Unearned income is a different matter entirely. If you also receive any unearned income directly from the company (Dividends, shares, stocks, allowances), you will want to carefully read page 23 of the HSMP guidance notes, since these are a bit trickier.[/quote]

Dear EdgeHillMole,
I can't get a straight answer from the HSMP office on a few things as well, maybe you might be of help. I asked these questions on another string, but I don't know if belonged there.

First off, if I apply for a 'full reconsideration of my application with new supporting evidence' does that mean that I can use the same 12 months of earnings even though it is past the 15 month window now? (Jan06 to Jan 07)

The total gross earnings. I understand from the other posts that they should consider our total gross earnings amount even though some of the earnings are not 'reported to the tax authorities'. I have 401(k), medical insurance, cafeteria plan, and parking expenses deducted pre-tax. So the amount on my W-2 is about $20K less than my wage slips. They mention that the docs should 'be consistent with and corroborate' each other. Of course they won't. I submitted a letter from my employer, payslips from my co. accounting system, and a detailed explanation from my accountant. They refused because the pay slips weren't stamped and signed. Fair enough, my mistake. I misread the statement about 'on-line payslips' thinking that they meant those internet based server systems with private access, their printouts look generic to prevent identity theft.

I'm sure your W-2 won't match your wage slips, how did you explain the discrepancy? Do you think that I should submit statements from my 401k plan, cafeteria plan, med insurance, and so forth? My accountant suggested including information about the legality of paying for those items pre-tax. ?
Also, because I work on commission, I get 3 paychecks per month. 2 of them are guaranteed salary, the third is my month's commission. My commissision check is always a different amount, and I receive it between the 1st and the 5th each month. If I'm lucky. So, I'm squeaking by as it is with the dollar being so weak. I'm wondering if they'll accept to/from dates like May 5, 2006 to May 5, 2007? (that way I might have a better chance of getting the May 06 comm check and May 07 comm check within the 12 month period)
What do you think?

Thanks in advance--sorry for the length--Heather

[ball1333]

Hi folks,

Week before last I got refused because my W-2 didn't match the gross of my wage slips. I claimed in my application only the W-2 amount. I am about to fax my request for review. It's a long story, as apeterso925 knows from our PM correspondence.

When I explained to the caseworker who refused my HSMP application *why* I claimed several thousand less in income vs. the gross of my wage slips (pre-tax deductions!!), he encouraged me to apply for a review. However, the caseworker who reviews my file again might say the decision stands. The worst that can happen is I'll have to pay another GBP 400 and submit more and different proofs of my income.

The caseworker who refused my application said that he thought it might have helped him if I had explained in my cover letter why my W-2 and wage slips differ, and suggested that I explain this thoroughly in my review request letter. But he didn't have anything meaningful to say about whether I had done the right thing in claiming only my W-2 amount! In my review request letter I make the point that, depending upon how one defines gross and/or declared income, perhaps I may be entited to claim as earned income *all* the money that appears as "gross" pay on my wage slips. But to be on the safe side I stated in my HSMP application only the amount of my total income corroborated by my Form W-2.

Let me tell you, this process is HARD compared to getting admitted to Oxford (which I did *twice*!).

[gordon]

I made an earlier application; it appeared that the caseworker looked first at payslips for gross earnings, and then sought corroboration of the earnings on the tax return or bank statements. In my case, I explained how to get from the gross amount to the FICA or taxable amounts shown on the W2 forms (ie identifying the pre-tax deductions), and also pointed to the net amounts paid into my bank account (the net amounts corresponding on the bank account statements and the payslips). They granted points for the gross amount (which only showed up on the payslips).

And Ball1333 - of course getting into Oxford (Balliol?) was easier - they, at least, had a clear-cut idea of what they expected to find in the applications and how to evaluate the evidence. Unfortunately, I am not entirely confident that the same can always be said in this process.

[ball1333]

And Ball1333 - of course getting into Oxford (Balliol?) was easier - they, at least, had a clear-cut idea of what they expected to find in the applications and how to evaluate the evidence. Unfortunately, I am not entirely confident that the same can always be said in this process.

Yes, Balliol '01...my old e-mail ID obviously still comes in handy. Were you up?

Thanks for sharing what worked in your case. If my review is unsuccessful I will do just what you did. I suppose the upside of having to reapply completely would be claiming 5 more points for Previous Earnings (whatever an additional 5 points may be worth).

[gordon]

I was up at Oxford (St Antony's 95).

A caveat: I should just reiterate that the details I gave were for an application that, on account of insufficient contract work evidence, ultimately failed (I made inferences based on the letter provided). While I did not want to overwhelm the caseworker with supporting evidence, it was clear that explicit explanations were needed to affirm that the evidence were, in fact, consistent with each other.

What was odd was that, in the application, I gave the FICA amount in the W2, but the letter referred to credit given for the gross earnings amount on the payslips (prior to any deductions). I suspect that there might be some variance between the caseworkers, but I wonder whether all US applications are handled by a sub-set of caseworkers.

[ball1333]

I was up at Oxford (St Antony's 95).

A caveat: I should just reiterate that the details I gave were for an application that, on account of insufficient contract work evidence, ultimately failed (I made inferences based on the letter provided). While I did not want to overwhelm the caseworker with supporting evidence, it was clear that explicit explanations were needed to affirm that the evidence were, in fact, consistent with each other.

What was odd was that, in the application, I gave the FICA amount in the W2, but the letter referred to credit given for the gross earnings amount on the payslips (prior to any deductions). I suspect that there might be some variance between the caseworkers, but I wonder whether all US applications are handled by a sub-set of caseworkers.

Ah, so you are a spy, then? (inside joke)

What is your status now? Did you eventually get the HSMP visa or have you entered the UK by another route? Or are you in the process of applying for an HSMP visa again?

When I spoke with my caseworker he said he has seen very few American applications. He said that what I said about gross and W-2 sounded vaguely familiar. From our conversation I gathered that there isn't much national specialization among the caseworkers.

[hnbird]

Great. Now my idea of the worst case scenario--ignorant and condescending caseworkers--is rearing its ugly head.
Well, yesterday I emailed the HSMP office with detailed questions about this and other evidence required in the guidance notes, explaining the problem this poses for US applicants. And if I end up the blackballed martyr for this group, I'll be expecting favors from all of you if and when I do finally get to the UK, HSMP or not!! :wink:
Obviously, I'll let you know if and how they respond.

However, in the meantime, I think that I'm going to compile these items:
1. the W-2
2. wageslips with stamps and signatures on letterhead from emp.
3. legend or diagram of wageslip (giving them a "map" for the various amounts listed on wageslips with explanations)
4. statement from accountant with reconciliation of W-2 vs. wage slips
5. letter from employer
6. statements from med insurance, cafeteria plan, 401k, etc. showing amounts contributed within 12 month period.
7. law code statement from accountant (showing legality of certain pre-tax deductions)

I know this sounds like overkill, but we aren't reinventing the wheel here. Lots of people have gone before us that needed to offer explanation of their past earnings and tax history. Lets just hope that the B team passes the US cases on to the A team from now on.

[EdgeHillMole]

hnbird,

I think you are on the right track. Submit as much documentation and explanation as possible. Assume the caseworker knows nothing about the US, US tax law, 401Ks, W-2s, etc. Start from the beginning and spell it out very clearly for them.

[ball1333]

For what it's worth, the first sentence of my review request letter, after my quotation of the reasons for refusal from my refusal letter, is:
"Based on a phone conversation with an HSMP helpline representative, I believed prior to submitting my application that HSMP caseworkers were familiar with American wage slips and Form W-2 tax returns. However, in light of the rationale for refusal of my application, it appears that certain aspects of the United States’ income tax system relevant to my stated income warrant clarification. This letter seeks to clarify that my stated income of $$$$$ is corroborated by evidence that I provided."

[gordon]

Hnbird

While I don't want to encourage unwarranted concern, I would agree with ball1333 that your explanations should be explicit in the extreme as to what numbers they should be looking for in your documentation. I have gotten the sense that, in fact, they have not seen a tremendous number of US applications (certainly relative, say, to the number of South Asian ones).

Presumably your CY 2006 tax return (W2) will not cover the period of earnings claimed, so you may want also to include the your bank statements showing the net amounts deposited. That will mean that gross earnings will be confirmed by your payslips as well as your employer's letter, and the net amounts will be confirmed by those same payslips as well as your bank statements (assuming that payments were direct deposited). Your solicitor and others on this board may disagree, but my impression would be that the inclusion of statements from health insurance, canteen, retirement, etc. might confuse matters more than they would help. It seems to me that a summary explanation about them from the accountant would suffice.

While I do not expect that the caseworkers are 'ignorant and condescending,' my understanding is that they are well and truly overwhelmed and therefore inclined to reject applications that do not present supporting evidence in the most explicit and obvious terms. You are not (for better or worse) the only one who has contacted them with a series of very particular questions, but unless I miss my guess, you will be in very sparse company if you actually receive a satisfactory reply by email.

Ball1333

I'm not a spy (haha, I'd forgotten about all that!). My earlier application was declined because I erroneously presented my independent contract work as salaried employment; my resubmitted application (pending since 2 April) is now in some strange holding pattern (the poicy department), most likely on account of the income claimed from and evidence provided for that same contract work. So they either reject it because the contract work is conflated with salaried employment, or they put it on hold because they can't decide what they want to see as evidence for contract work. I am deeply frustrated about this, as you might imagine, because I've sent them everything as requested.

I think tomorrow that I am going to try to contact the caseworker.

[hnbird]

I finally received a reply back from the HSMP team.
There are a few things that were unclear (at least to me) about past earnings, degree verification, and a few other items that are specific to applicants from the US. (I realize the last question about birth certificates is tedious, but I wanted clarification.)
Below I'm just copying my questions and the answers I received.

FROM HN BIRD

To whom it may concern,

I have a few questions about supporting evidence for my HSMP
application. I have applied and was refused a few weeks ago and before I submit another application for reconsideration, can you help me with clarifying the guidance notes?

1. Reconsideration of application:
I want to submit a 'full reconsideration of my application with new
additional information'. I understand that I have to submit another fee,
application, etc. Can I still use the same 12 months of earnings (January 2006 to January 2007)?

2. Qualifications:
I received 30 points for my degree because I sent my original
certificate, my transcripts, and a letter from institution proving
English as the instruction language. I hope that this is sufficient the
second time. However, I've heard rumors that I need to have documentation from NARIC proving my Bachelors is the UK equivalent. Is this necessary?

3. Previous earnings:
I have 12 months of earnings from January 13, 2006 to January 12, 2007.
365 days. Is this what you consider 12 months or do you require whole
months (Feb 06 to Jan 07)?

Which 'total gross income' number do you use?
The gross income from employer or the income reported on the tax return
(W-2)? The total gross income on my wage slips will be much higher than those on my tax return because in the US we pay our medical insurance,
retirement savings, parking, etc. before tax. (this takes $10K-20K off
of my earnings usually)
However, I EARNED the total gross income and chose to distribute the
money before tax, and I can explain the distribution of the earnings
(before tax) and the legality of it. Will this suffice?

4. Age assessment:
I have a question about the guidance for age assessment, specifically
for US citizens.

Birth certificate--
In the US, all original birth certificates are stored with the
government health authorities and citizens do not have access to them.
The certificates that we are issued are called 'certified original' with
raised seal and so forth. This is what is used when applying for driving
licenses and passports.
I realize the need for originals wholeheartedly. However, I was refused
based on my birth certificate not being 'original' and was surprised
because I have used this 'certified original' for all other
identification purposes.
So, the original driving license is the second option. This poses a
problem because it is illegal to drive without the drivers license in
your possession, so I can't send it to you because I must drive to work
every day.
Due to these circumstances, I am willing to send notarized copies of the
BC and Dl. In addition, is it okay that I send notarized copies of my
passport--even though I haven't been a victim of war or natural
disaster?

I hope to hear from you soon. Thank you in advance for your help.

My best,
HN Bird


FROM HSMP TEAM:

Dear Applicant

Thankyou for your email.
Applicants can use any consecutive 12 month period they wish to use in
past 15 months prior to submitting your HSMP application.
The guidance notes state that applicant should provide evidence from
Naric stating the equivelance of the degree obtained. However this is
not not esential as we check these ourselves.
As you are aware you must choose a 12 month period, as long as you have 12 months worth of evidence and you meet the income band claimed then you will score the points claimed. We use the Gross income before any deductions taken.
If unable to submit the required evidence due certain circumstances then
applicants must claim under exceptional consideration. You must state
the full reasons and evidence supporting the reason. In your case I
would suggest providing eveidence such as a letter from the government
of health, who you state hold these birth certificates confirming that
you are unable to be in possesion of this.

Kind Regards
HSMP Team[/i]

[gordon]

How fun, you received a reply. Will you submit a new application with new evidence, or will you apply for a review with an explanation ?

You will definitely have to explain that the certification of vital record (certificate of live birth) that you are likely to have received is a government-certified copy of the original (even your mother would not have the physical original). I'd just like to make sure, at this point, that you in fact have a 'certified copy' rather than a 'certified informational copy' - this latter is not valid for establishing identity in the US, and presumably would not serve for the purpose you have in mind here, either. But whom are you meant to contact to obtain such a letter explaining that only certified copies are issued ? The Secretary for Health and Human Services ? This is borderline ridiculous.

I wonder whether you could send the certified copy of the birth certificate, with the explanatory letter, as well as a notarised copy of the passport. Frankly, I am surprised that an expired passport is not given as an option.

G

[hnbird]

gordon,

Well, I am going to send a full new application because by the time I received the refusal letter, I had all of, um, 3 days to write a review request and get it back to them before the 28 day timeframe...oh well.
Now the problem is the 'reconsideration of the application' is actually a misnomer. Its just a new application all together, and I have to resend everything, new 12/15 month earnings timeframe, etc. So now I don't know if I still qualify because my earnings are commission based and the 12/15 month window that I have to use now is less $$, moving my points down to 70 pts. If only the dollar would get a little stronger, because I don't have time to finish my Masters now!? But I'll figure that out.

After a long conversation with the Health Department director yesterday, I learned a lot about birth records and that every state has different policies and so forth. (did you know that NJ supposedly has someone in one of their health departments 'selling' birth certifcates to individuals so that instead of identity theft, its identity creation. weird huh)He is going to send me a letter along with another certified copy (like what i sent them) explaining the policy of not issuing actual records, why, and stating the validity of the 'certified original copy' or something to that effect. I should get it Monday or Tuesday, and I'll scan in a copy for you to read if you like.
Along with the HD letter, my drivers license, and notarised passport copies--all pages of passport is what i've heard suggested--I think they should believe me that I am who I say I am.
But, I guess I need to figure out the other part first. Bye--will check back later--hnbird

[ball1333]

OMG hnbird, how awful!! I submitted my Virginia birth certificate, issued in 1988 and stating my DOB in 1981. I had NO problem with my age points. Maybe VA birth certificates look more "official" than NJ ones?! I didn't even think that they would question a birth certificate the way yours got questioned. Best of luck wih round 2.

No news yet regarding my review request.

[gordon]

hnbird

Best wishes reconfiguring the application points. Between the oddities of birth certificate creationism and the adverse effects of floating exchange rates (don't get me started on the Bush Administration's so-called 'strong dollar' policy), you will have your work cut out for you. I begin to think that all this prep-work is the 'highly skilled' part of the managed migration programme.

Of course, it was only in approaching this application process that I began to care that, while I may be 'highly skilled', I am not highly paid.

G

[apeterso925]

Just a follow-up on this, I expressed my concerns about the tax discrepancy to my solicitor, but he didn't see it as an issue.

He submitted my application with my original set of documents and the HO debited my credit card either yesterday or today (I can see the debit, but not the date yet), so time will tell I guess.

Hopefully soon I'll be on the lucky and happy side of this roller coaster!

[hnbird]

apeterso925--

I'm glad that the solicitor isn't concerned, and I hope that you've received confirmation of your payment and so forth! I bet you'll find out something by the end of the month.
With his confidence and your middle-of-the-band earnings, I think you should do fine. All that I ask is that you pass on your wisdom and good juju to the rest of us when you twinkle on to entry clearance land!
For the rest of you concerned about the birth certificate, I did receive a tidy letter from my state health department, explaining the policy for keeping vital records in the US. I'm thinking this sort of letter is important to have in the future anyway just in case I run into this problem again. A friend of mine in Madrid (she immigrated to Spain from US 10 years ago), swears by always getting 2 or 3 copies of everything b/c she's had gov't officials lose her originals far too many times.
Any word from anyone else on their status?

[hastinkv]

Hi all, Just thought I'd say hello and officially introduce myself on this forum. I've been talking to Amy and Melissa on other groups so thought I'd say hello on this one as well. I'm applying for HSMP in October and thought I may be jumping the gun on assembling paperwork - but now I'm thinking not so much!
V. useful info re: the birth certificate - I was born in CA so I may check on that now...