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thank you, I'd considered that course, but I then read at http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... 4/#header2simmo wrote:If she is overly worried about being refused entry ("bounced") she can apply for a visit visa beforehand.
See http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas ... a-holders/Johngriff wrote:thank you, I'd considered that course, but I then read at http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... 4/#header2simmo wrote:If she is overly worried about being refused entry ("bounced") she can apply for a visit visa beforehand.
that a visa application from a non visa national would be automatically accepted. If so, surely it would still not guarantee that she would not be 'bounced' at the border, since possession of a visa still doesn't guarantee entry?
After hours of reading and searching, it seems incredibly difficult to find out exactly whether a non visa national in her position will be admitted or not - I think somebody who has to apply for a visa is in a much clearer position? If Im being overly pessimistic it I'd love to know, but considering length of the journey she'd undertake to get here, we need to be certain.
Thank you, that's helpful, reading the information at the link it's certainly encouraging, and I hadn't seen this. Still it seems a contradiction that if a visa will be automatically granted to a non visa national who 'insists on applying' (as the guidance says), in what sense is the person actually establishing their bona fides? If anybody can clarify or add to this helpful response I'd be very grateful.[/quote]Johngriff wrote:See http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas ... a-holders/
Others may clarify, but my own personal understanding is that having a visitor's visa greatly reduces the chances of being bounced. The difference is that when applying for a visa the applicant establishes their bona fides, whereas a traveller without a visa has to do this at the border, which is where they risk coming a cropper...
I read at http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... 4/#header2Johngriff wrote:Where have you seen that it will "automatically be granted"?!
You're getting mixed up. What this means is that if a non visa national chooses to apply for a visit visa (even though, strictly speaking, they do not need one) the *application* should be accepted. That is to say, they will not refused the chance to apply given that strictly speaking it is not necessary to do so.simmo wrote:I read at http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... 4/#header2Johngriff wrote:Where have you seen that it will "automatically be granted"?!
that "Where a non-visa national insists on applying (even if an entry clearance is not required), the application should be accepted."
Thanks so much for that very useful advice, I can see that it would really be too much of a risk given that, as you say, she would be facing an uphill task to satisfy an IO/BFO that she has evidence showing that she will return. It would be very traumatic for her to be turned back of course, and we have decided instead now to spend some time together in a third country (Turkey) where we believe she will be able to enter and take a holiday with me with more certainty of entry. The help from people on this board has been invaluable and helped us to see take an informed decision about how to proceed based on the level of risk we're willing to take.INSIDER wrote:I am an IO or BFO to give us our new title.
Station agent is pretty much spot on. I have granted entry to lots of people on the face of it who really stood to be refused. However, speaking to them and any sponsor allows me in some cases to give the benefit of the doubt which an ECO will not give.
In your case, a lot will depend on your own personal circumstances as well.
Do you work, if so how much do you earn? Do you own your own accommodation? These questions go to show your ability to support and accommodate your girlfriend.
Ultimately however, we have to be satisfied that the passenger intends to return home at the end of the visit. It is her responsibility to fully satisfy the immigration officer that this is the case, but with no real ties and incentive it will be a bit of an uphill task I am afraid.
Thanks for this, I can see the logic of that, and I'm sure you're right. Given though that the consequences of being turned back would be a great deal of distress, expense and inconvenience, and the info from the IO/BFO who replied to the post, we decided to spend time in a third country instead.The Station Agent wrote:In my experience a visa application tends to be treated more harshly than someone standing in front of an officer at the port. This is partly because the visa application is totally impersonal and based on paperwork handled by an officer who can use the letter of the law to back up any refusal. Their general standpoint is to refuse any application they can refuse.
If you look at the case of your girlfriend from a purely detached standpoint (an officer who won't see her, and needs to handle dozens of applications per day) could they refuse it? If so, my advice would be do not apply for the visa. Yes, having the visa would give her greater certainty of getting in, but what if the visa is refused? (Which is far more likely than a refusal at the border in my view).
If you watch UK Border Force or whatever you will see multiple cases of people being allowed in if the officer feels their case is genuine, while if their case had been decided without chatting face-to-face it would more likely have been refused. This is just my personal opinion. The visa application is generally to be avoided where possible..............