French embassy in jakarta refusing schengen - what to do???

[Kader]

Dear all,

I'm pulling my hair out abou this and I'm not sure how to move forward!

I wrote a previous email on this forum regarding using the surinder Singh route (I've been reading! Haha) to get my wife from Indonesia to France. She has a bad immigration history in the uk. We have been married since 2006. I have visited her in jakarta atleast once a year.

So last month I moved from Britain (I'm a British national) to Paris to find a job.

A friend of my brother in law knew someone starting a pizza business and he agreed to employ me as a Spam hand, due to my poor french language.

He wrote me a letter of offer of employment confirming my salary, minimum wage (we can't be choosers in this situation). To be honest the letter was basic without proper embossed headed paper etc but it was a genuine letter non the less.

I had around 3,500 savings in my bank account.

My wife attended the French embassy (with my English speaking sister and her french husband).

Together they submitted:

My wife's marriage certificate and passport
My photo page copy passport
My tenancy agreement
My bank statement
My letter of offer of employment
Travel insurance for my wife
A flight booked for the 16 October (as advised by the first trip to the embassy 3 weeks ago).

On the day of submission, they saw a different person to the original visit. She decided that other documents were also needed. She asked for:

A return plane ticket (!!!!)
A pay slip from me
Proof that my wife and I are in a genuine relationship
An explanation of why we are not living together

I'm angry because there is NO list documents provided on their website stating what they need

Every time they go to the embassy a different person rrequests different documents

I called the organisation at Europe eu, who state that the only possible documents the embassy can request for a short term visa are the marriage certificate the passport and my passport.

They have now referred us to solvit, a European advice service that can take ten weeks to respond.

So my question is, what to I do??? I am about to apply for an electricity bill for my new home so that, in turn I can get a bank account in France.

I will also send evidence that I have been visiting my wife regularly and sending her money via money gram regularly.

What the HELL ELSE do they want from me. I'm giving them more than they are legally allowed to but, for one reason or another they appear hell bent on finding fault with all documents.

My brother in law is a lawyer paralegal but I think that him turning up and spouting eu law at them (he hasn't yet) will just make things worse.

So what do I do. On the embassy advice I booked my wife's ticket to France on the 16 October. Obviously we will lose that money now.

What do I do? I haven't started my job get as the company is still getting the premises ready. So should I go to Indonesia and see the embassy directly?

Should I sit and wait?

Really, my question is, how do you get an embassy to comply with the law??

[dalebutt]

Get solvit involved, I don't find them particularly effective, but some people have, so you should get in touch as well as keeping at the French via email reminding them of your rights.

[Kader]

Thanks for that dale but!

I wrote to solvit yesterday and I will wait for a reply!! But what until then!! Apparently solvit cannot force the embassy hand, only advise but these guys at the embassy look stubborn indeed!

Three weeks ago, the head embassy guy simply said "marriage certificate, passport and proof you are British...that's all I need and your visa will be ready in three days."

U
Suddenly three weeks later, nothing is good enough.

Is solvit the only channel??

[dalebutt]

Thanks for that dale but!

I wrote to solvit yesterday and I will wait for a reply!! But what until then!! Apparently solvit cannot force the embassy hand, only advise but these guys at the embassy look stubborn indeed!

Three weeks ago, the head embassy guy simply said "marriage certificate, passport and proof you are British...that's all I need and your visa will be ready in three days."

U
Suddenly three weeks later, nothing is good enough.

Is solvit the only channel??

Copy the extract from the directive about the required documentation, backed with the email from the head of consul that you have received ealier, send it to them standing your ground, letting them know you won't be prepared to give them anymore than is required, you need to come across as firm and gentle don't be aggressive, I also think you should call the lady at solvit to speed her up

[dalebutt]

Unfortunately solvit is the only recourse at this stage, you just need to keep at the firmly and be persistent, they will shift ground hopefully.

[Kader]

Thanks dalebutt

We have finally realised what the problem appears to be. My wife and I married in 2006. I think they are suspicious of why we have not lived together since that time ( my other post explains several botched UkBA applications including some false info meant that this was our fate) . In support of our application to prove we are a real couple we have money gram slips from 2006 and my passport stamps showing I visit her every 6 or 8 months.

Are they even allowed to ask for this?

They have asked to see my wife on Monday morning.

She will obviously have to tell the truth if she is asked, but that can't be used to say we are in a sham marriage can it??

[dalebutt]

Thanks dalebutt

We have finally realised what the problem appears to be. My wife and I married in 2006. I think they are suspicious of why we have not lived together since that time ( my other post explains several botched UkBA applications including some false info meant that this was our fate) . In support of our application to prove we are a real couple we have money gram slips from 2006 and my passport stamps showing I visit her every 6 or 8 months.

Are they even allowed to ask for this?

They have asked to see my wife on Monday morning.

She will obviously have to tell the truth if she is asked, but that can't be used to say we are in a sham marriage can it??

They couldn't accuse you of being a party to a sham marriage without sufficient ground, they will have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you are a party to a marriage of convenience, if you have those evidence it is better to write a letter along with it for your wife to take with her when she visits UK refusal will have no impact on the application. Good luck

[Kader]

Thank you again for your reply.

I spent the last five hours writing a letter of support to the embassy confirming mine and my wife's history and providing excerpts from articles 1, 2, 3, 6 8 and 9 from the directive. Also quoting from the EC guideline publication about workers and spouses rights. I also found a 2009 guidance publication on the EC website about the correct way to implement the directive.

It's done as well as I can but there is a chance that it looks abit smug (without intending to be).

Would it be better to stick to a short statement about how and when we met and that I have been supporting her financially and visiting her regularly?

I am probably thinking too much about this but I feel that the embassy are kind of gate keepers of this grand kingdom of theirs and that everything I'm telling them is suspect.

Is the best course short and sweet or detailed and informed?

Regards of the best type

Kader

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Moved to correct forum section.

[euroguys]

I had similar issues with the Portuguesse embassy in Jhakarta in the end they effectively forced me to

Get a certified Health Certificate
Pay 60 euros and the carriers fee for a shengan visa
This forced me to buy a return flight to enable my Wife to leave her country of origion (not indonesia).
I finaly got a lawer to write to the embassy

Once arrived there was no problem with the internal immigration and a residence card was issued within 5 weeks cost 15 euros same as a national i.d. card

With hind sight she would have applied for a 4 week tourist visa family vacation to join me in Portugal where we would have immediatly applied for a residence card thus I could have dealt with it all from the UK rather than having moved first

[Kader]

Hey euroguys

Thanks for your reply

Yes we had suggested to the embassy that we make a visit visa application but then they asked for proof of a return ticket which would have cost us 800 euros, money that's would have to come out of our "sufficient funds" pocket. So we decided to stick to the entry visa.

Actually I found a nice site called the European immigration lawyers network which lists three french immigration lawyers supposedly well practiced in eu law.

I called two out of three of them, mainly to figure out if there was any french law implementing the eu directive. There was not luck with the later however both lawyers told me that the French consulates see the entry visa and the long stay visa as the same thing.mtherefore requesting travel insurance, payslips, work contracts, proof of accomodation and sufficient income etc are the norm.

Errrrrr, but that's is specifically prohibited by the directive!!

According to the French lawyers, apparently, that doesn't matter. If you want your visa comply with the illegal requests of the French consul.

Perhaps there is a difference in culture regarding french and English ideas of "rules" - in terms of people abiding by them. I don't know about Portugal, but it appears that when in Rome, do as the Romans.

So Monday will be an excercise of humbled compliance from our part.

See what happens!

K

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

I had similar issues with the Portuguesse embassy in Jhakarta in the end they effectively forced me to

Get a certified Health Certificate
Pay 60 euros and the carriers fee for a shengan visa
This forced me to buy a return flight to enable my Wife to leave her country of origion (not indonesia).
I finaly got a lawer to write to the embassy

Once arrived there was no problem with the internal immigration and a residence card was issued within 5 weeks cost 15 euros same as a national i.d. card

With hind sight she would have applied for a 4 week tourist visa family vacation to join me in Portugal where we would have immediatly applied for a residence card thus I could have dealt with it all from the UK rather than having moved first

Did you complain?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Hey euroguys

Thanks for your reply

Yes we had suggested to the embassy that we make a visit visa application but then they asked for proof of a return ticket which would have cost us 800 euros, money that's would have to come out of our "sufficient funds" pocket. So we decided to stick to the entry visa.

Actually I found a nice site called the European immigration lawyers network which lists three french immigration lawyers supposedly well practiced in eu law.

I called two out of three of them, mainly to figure out if there was any french law implementing the eu directive. There was not luck with the later however both lawyers told me that the French consulates see the entry visa and the long stay visa as the same thing.mtherefore requesting travel insurance, payslips, work contracts, proof of accomodation and sufficient income etc are the norm.

Errrrrr, but that's is specifically prohibited by the directive!!

According to the French lawyers, apparently, that doesn't matter. If you want your visa comply with the illegal requests of the French consul.

Perhaps there is a difference in culture regarding french and English ideas of "rules" - in terms of people abiding by them. I don't know about Portugal, but it appears that when in Rome, do as the Romans.

So Monday will be an excercise of humbled compliance from our part.

See what happens!

K

Let us know how you get on. Don't hesitate to complain.

[Kader]

Eventful but nengetive day at the embassy according to those attending.

My wife was questioned by the consult about why we were married in 2006 but haven't applied for a spouse visa to the UK.

She wa too nervous to admit that she had overstayed in the UK before we got married in Indonesia.

The consul insisted that he find out why she hadn't come to the uk earlier and has postponed his decision for a week to speak with the British embassy in jakarta.

Of course when he does this he will see that our application for a spouse visa was refused in 2006 on the basis that she had been in the uk (And overstayed) before but not put this in her application.

Where does that leave us now with the French embassy? Will it be refused on the basis that she had not disclosed information ?

She will call him on Friday for his decision...

[Kader]

Dear all

Thank you for your support.

I'm pleased to say that despite my wife's poor uk immigration history a 3 month schengen visa was granted today.

I'm so relieved!

For anyone that is considering doing the same in jakarta, the embassy does ask for more than the usual documents but for me, I decided that complying with additional requests would be better than fighting hem.

We had to submit the following:

Evidence of our relationship, cards, letters, photos, marriage certificate.
Evidence of my excercising treaty rights, employment contract, tenancy agreement, electricity bill, bank statement
Travel insurance for wife
Evidence of a plane ticket.

I hope this helps anyone in the same situation that we were in.

The next step is to get her to France and continue excercising treaty rights until we can come home to England.

Regards

Kader