EEA Case - Am I now to apply for British Citizenship?

[teekay125]

Hi, This forum is absolutely great. Thanks to all the contributers!

I have query about when I can apply for British Citizenship and will have to put in few dates, so please bear with.

April 2007 - I (non-EEA national) arrived in UK on work-permit
May 2007 - my A8 EU national wife joined me in UK
Nov 2007 - my wife started working and applied for WRS / I got FMRS
Nov 2008 - my wife applied on EEA1 / I applied on EEA2 application
Nov 2012 - my wife applied on EEA3 / I applied on EEA4 application
May 2013 - We have received the PR approvals / stamped

Question 1 - I understand 5 year Treaty Right Excercising automatically confers Permanent Residence for my A8 EU National Wife. When is this 5 year taken from - the date she came to UK (May2007) or date she registered under Workers Registration scheme(WRS - Nov2007)?
Question 2 - I understand after my wife's 5 years of excercising Treaty Rights + 1 year of holding PR (which is granted automatically?), I am eligible to start British Citizenship process. Most important question for me is - WHEN CAN I APPLY FOR MY BRITISH CITIZENSHIP? May 2013, Nov 2013, May 2014?

I appreciate you taking time to read this and many thanks in advance your help.

Tony

[Amber]

Hi, This forum is absolutely great. Thanks to all the contributers!

I have query about when I can apply for British Citizenship and will have to put in few dates, so please bear with.

April 2007 - I (non-EEA national) arrived in UK on work-permit
May 2007 - my A8 EU national wife joined me in UK
Nov 2007 - my wife started working and applied for WRS / I got FMRS
Nov 2008 - my wife applied on EEA1 / I applied on EEA2 application
Nov 2012 - my wife applied on EEA3 / I applied on EEA4 application
May 2013 - We have received the PR approvals / stamped

Question 1 - I understand 5 year Treaty Right Excercising automatically confers Permanent Residence for my A8 EU National Wife. When is this 5 year taken from - the date she came to UK (May2007) or date she registered under Workers Registration scheme(WRS - Nov2007)?
Question 2 - I understand after my wife's 5 years of excercising Treaty Rights + 1 year of holding PR (which is granted automatically?), I am eligible to start British Citizenship process. Most important question for me is - WHEN CAN I APPLY FOR MY BRITISH CITIZENSHIP? May 2013, Nov 2013, May 2014?

I appreciate you taking time to read this and many thanks in advance your help.

Tony

Technically after 1 year of pr which would be November 2013 if you've got the paperwork to submit then that's fine. However, if not you could wait till one year after your pr card date. The fives year period for pr would be after 5 years of exercising treaty rights, you had to register for wrs within a one month period of starting up work if that was done you could use the earlier date. If she started exercising treaty rights in November then that is when it would start, providing she registered for wrs.

You also must have pr/be settled for 12 months though as your spouse will be a British citizen there is discretion to waive this requirement providing you've been resident in the uk 3 years.

[Jambo]

This question is better suited in the British citizenship section of the board.

See Q1, Q5 & Q6 in Citizenship FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting.

[teekay125]

Hi, This forum is absolutely great. Thanks to all the contributers!

Technically after 1 year of pr which would be November 2013 if you've got the paperwork to submit then that's fine. However, if not you could wait till one year after your pr card date. The fives year period for pr would be after 5 years of exercising treaty rights, you had to register for wrs within a one month period of starting up work if that was done you could use the earlier date. If she started exercising treaty rights in November then that is when it would start, providing she registered for wrs.

You also must have pr/be settled for 12 months though as your spouse will be a British citizen there is discretion to waive this requirement providing you've been resident in the uk 3 years.

Thanks Amber for your reply. I was hoping that my wife's Excercise of Treaty Rights would have started from the time she arrived here but if it is from WRS, it is fine too. She started working and registered during the same month, so no scope there to bring the date back as you suggested.

I wanted to add that my wife will NOT be applying for British Citizenship, it is only me. In which case, can I apply for my BC in Nov 2013? If I have to apply one year after my PR card, then it will be May 2014, as Home Office have only stamped it from now while issuing it and not from the date when we applied for it! (seems bit unfair).

[Amber]

Hi, This forum is absolutely great. Thanks to all the contributers!

Technically after 1 year of pr which would be November 2013 if you've got the paperwork to submit then that's fine. However, if not you could wait till one year after your pr card date. The fives year period for pr would be after 5 years of exercising treaty rights, you had to register for wrs within a one month period of starting up work if that was done you could use the earlier date. If she started exercising treaty rights in November then that is when it would start, providing she registered for wrs.

You also must have pr/be settled for 12 months though as your spouse will be a British citizen there is discretion to waive this requirement providing you've been resident in the uk 3 years.

Thanks Amber for your reply. I was hoping that my wife's Excercise of Treaty Rights would have started from the time she arrived here but if it is from WRS, it is fine too. She started working and registered during the same month, so no scope there to bring the date back as you suggested.

I wanted to add that my wife will NOT be applying for British Citizenship, it is only me. In which case, can I apply for my BC in Nov 2013? If I have to apply one year after my PR card, then it will be May 2014, as Home Office have only stamped it from now while issuing it and not from the date when we applied for it! (seems bit unfair).

If you can prove that you attained your permanent residency (prior to the date on the pr card) then you can apply 12 months after having pr presumably November 2013. Sorry I didn't realise your wife did not want to naturalise, I shouldn't have concluded that, not everyone wishes to or can.

[Amber]

Hi, Could someone please help with this?

If an EEA A8 national
- arrived in UK on - 5 May 2007
- started working on - 10 Nov 2007
- Applied Worker Registration - 11 Nov 2007
- WRS certificate issued on .......... - 25 Nov 2007

For applying for citizenship, they need to have exercised their treaty right for 5 year + 1 year of PR (which is automatic).

Question 1: Please help to clarify if the start date of exercising of the Treaty Rights will be from -
........5 May 2007,
..........10 Nov 2007
............11 Nov 2007 or
................25 Nov 2007?

Question 2: Can the non-EEA national family member alone apply for citizenship, while the EEA national family member keeps their existing nationality?

I've tried reading many articles but can't seem to find clear answer to above. So posting this question. Many thanks for reading and your answers.

[Amber]

Did you read what was wrote before?

[teekay125]

Did you read what was wrote before?

Apologies if it seems like a repeat of the question. I was not sure that my comment to previous question may be lost unnoticed, so posted a new question. This is actually in addition to what was stated before i.e.

- Nov 2007 - my wife started working and applied for WRS / I got FMRS. This event is now split into three stages i.e.

- started working on - 10 Nov 2007
- Applied Worker Registration - 11 Nov 2007
- WRS certificate issued on .......... - 25 Nov 2007

We are not sure which date it is and if we choose wrong date, could we end up loosing the naturalisation fee and time?

I understand if a non-EEA national family member can apply for BC alone, the answer is yes? (by providing all the requisite documents to show that treaty rights are being exercised for 12 months after 5 years.

[Jambo]

Did you read what was wrote before?

Apologies if it seems like a repeat of the question. I was not sure that my comment to previous question may be lost unnoticed, so posted a new question. This is actually in addition to what was stated before i.e.

- Nov 2007 - my wife started working and applied for WRS / I got FMRS. This event is now split into three stages i.e.

- started working on - 10 Nov 2007
- Applied Worker Registration - 11 Nov 2007
- WRS certificate issued on .......... - 25 Nov 2007

We are not sure which date it is and if we choose wrong date, could we end up loosing the naturalisation fee and time?

If you have proof she worked in November, then her start date is fine.

I understand if a non-EEA national family member can apply for BC alone, the answer is yes? (by providing all the requisite documents to show that treaty rights are being exercised for 12 months after 5 years.

Not sure what you meant here.
Your wife doesn't need to apply but you will need to provide proof of your wife exercising treaty rights (Nov 2007-2012) and include her passport, WRS certificate.
You will need to prove you have been married during the period and that you lived in the UK during that time.

[askmeplz82]

Did you read what was wrote before?

Apologies if it seems like a repeat of the question. I was not sure that my comment to previous question may be lost unnoticed, so posted a new question. This is actually in addition to what was stated before i.e.

- Nov 2007 - my wife started working and applied for WRS / I got FMRS. This event is now split into three stages i.e.

- started working on - 10 Nov 2007
- Applied Worker Registration - 11 Nov 2007
- WRS certificate issued on .......... - 25 Nov 2007

We are not sure which date it is and if we choose wrong date, could we end up loosing the naturalisation fee and time?

I understand if a non-EEA national family member can apply for BC alone, the answer is yes? (by providing all the requisite documents to show that treaty rights are being exercised for 12 months after 5 years.

you both don't need to exercise treaty right after PR


don't make a BC application complicated ; you don't need to submit 5 yrs exercise treaty right if you submit in may 2014

but if you submit in nov 2013 then yes exercise treaty right ( nov 2007 - nov 2012 ) + 1 year residence in the UK to qualify

so basically i believe exercise treaty right after nov 2012 in not important

[teekay125]

Apologies if it seems like a repeat of the question. I was not sure that my comment to previous question may be lost unnoticed, so posted a new question. This is actually in addition to what was stated before i.e.

- Nov 2007 - my wife started working and applied for WRS / I got FMRS. This event is now split into three stages i.e.

- started working on - 10 Nov 2007
- Applied Worker Registration - 11 Nov 2007
- WRS certificate issued on .......... - 25 Nov 2007

We are not sure which date it is and if we choose wrong date, could we end up loosing the naturalisation fee and time?

If you have proof she worked in November, then her start date is fine.

I understand if a non-EEA national family member can apply for BC alone, the answer is yes? (by providing all the requisite documents to show that treaty rights are being exercised for 12 months after 5 years.

Not sure what you meant here.
Your wife doesn't need to apply but you will need to provide proof of your wife exercising treaty rights (Nov 2007-2012) and include her passport, WRS certificate.
You will need to prove you have been married during the period and that you lived in the UK during that time.

So as I understand I can apply for BC from the 'Start Date' 10 Nov of my wife's working, even though the WRS was issued few weeks later but states the back date of starting to work.

And I am ready with all the required documents like her passport, WRS certificate, employments - self employment details, marriage certificate, bank statements etc, almost like we did when applying for PR.

Sincere thanks Jambo for the clarifications, this is great help!

[teekay125]

- Nov 2007 - my wife started working and applied for WRS / I got FMRS. This event is now split into three stages i.e.

- started working on - 10 Nov 2007
- Applied Worker Registration - 11 Nov 2007
- WRS certificate issued on .......... - 25 Nov 2007

We are not sure which date it is and if we choose wrong date, could we end up loosing the naturalisation fee and time?

I understand if a non-EEA national family member can apply for BC alone, the answer is yes? (by providing all the requisite documents to show that treaty rights are being exercised for 12 months after 5 years.

you both don't need to exercise treaty right after PR

don't make a BC application complicated ; you don't need to submit 5 yrs exercise treaty right if you submit in may 2014

but if you submit in nov 2013 then yes exercise treaty right ( nov 2007 - nov 2012 ) + 1 year residence in the UK to qualify

so basically i believe exercise treaty right after nov 2012 in not important

Many thanks askmeplz82 for your comments. I need to get BC sooner due to work reasons (BC must for specific role). So I will submit it in Nov, the confusion I had was about the exact date applicable (start working or apply WRS vs, getting WRS?) and if I can apply alone.

[Jambo]

So as I understand I can apply for BC from the 'Start Date' 10 Nov of my wife's working, even though the WRS was issued few weeks later but states the back date of starting to work.

And I am ready with all the required documents like her passport, WRS certificate, employments - self employment details, marriage certificate, bank statements etc, almost like we did when applying for PR.

Sincere thanks Jambo for the clarifications, this is great help!

Please note that you will also need to meet the new language requirement (you might have met that for your initial visa in 2007). You also need to pass Life in the UK test.

[teekay125]

So as I understand I can apply for BC from the 'Start Date' 10 Nov of my wife's working, even though the WRS was issued few weeks later but states the back date of starting to work.

And I am ready with all the required documents like her passport, WRS certificate, employments - self employment details, marriage certificate, bank statements etc, almost like we did when applying for PR.

Sincere thanks Jambo for the clarifications, this is great help!

Please note that you will also need to meet the new language requirement (you might have met that for your initial visa in 2007). You also need to pass Life in the UK test.

Thanks Jambo once again, I am very glad that you bring this up because I wanted to ask something and you are probably the best person.

Reading from below link, from 28/Oct/2013, there are language qualifications required BUT if your qualification was in English and acceptable as per UK NARIC, you will NOT be required pass any additional language exam.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... hip/kol-uk

The following qualifications will be accepted for settlement and naturalisation purposes

Degrees taught in English
Those who have obtained a degree taught in English will not be required to show a formal speaking and listening qualification. Those with an academic qualification (not a professional or vocational qualification) who
provide appropriate evidence that the qualification was taught or researched in English are considered automatically to meet the English language component of the KoLL requirement and will not be
required to show a formal speaking and listening qualification. The qualification must be deemed by UK NARIC to meet the recognised standard of a Bachelor’s or Master’s degree or PhD in the
UK. However, they will still be required to pass the Life in the UK test to demonstrate their knowledge of life in the UK

So I understand on this basis, I will not need language certification? Answer to this might benefit many.

I think in 2007, for work-permit, I might have used same logic, and I already have a LIUK test booked.

[Jambo]

I think in 2007, for work-permit, I might have used same logic, and I already have a LIUK test booked.

"I think" and "might" is probably not enough. I suggest you confirm this.

[teekay125]

I think in 2007, for work-permit, I might have used same logic, and I already have a LIUK test booked.

"I think" and "might" is probably not enough. I suggest you confirm this.

I've been searching for WP documents from 2007 and all I could find was was printout of online application that I made. There is no mention of language requirements in it. May be intra-company transfers within EU were different in terms of requirements. I will update here as soon as I find more documents from 2007 WP application.

But the main point I was trying to raise is that the link http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... hip/kol-uk states Those who have obtained a degree taught in English will not be required to show a formal speaking and listening qualification I would like to have your expert opinion on this matter. It may sound one thing to me but could have some fine print or matter of practice, that I may not be aware of.

[Jambo]

I've been searching for WP documents from 2007 and all I could find was was printout of online application that I made. There is no mention of language requirements in it. May be intra-company transfers within EU were different in terms of requirements. I will update here as soon as I find more documents from 2007 WP application.

But the main point I was trying to raise is that the link http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... hip/kol-uk states Those who have obtained a degree taught in English will not be required to show a formal speaking and listening qualification I would like to have your expert opinion on this matter. It may sound one thing to me but could have some fine print or matter of practice, that I may not be aware of.

Have you got a university degree taught in English? It is as simple as that.

[teekay125]

But the main point I was trying to raise is that the link http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... hip/kol-uk states Those who have obtained a degree taught in English will not be required to show a formal speaking and listening qualification I would like to have your expert opinion on this matter. It may sound one thing to me but could have some fine print or matter of practice, that I may not be aware of.

Have you got a university degree taught in English? It is as simple as that.[/quote]

that settles my doubts. My degree was taught in English and the university is on NARIC list (one of the posts touched on this). To be sure, I'll try to find and double check the list. Might even post here for others benefit. Thanks a lot again Jambo.

[JASON451]

My apologies if i am interrupting

just wanted to enquire a bit more on this

my case is quite similar to Tony,except for me and my wife are divorced now

1.Came in UK as a studen in 2005 Feb
2.Got married to an EEA national in Dec 2007,my ex registered for WRS after a month and have been in continous employment ever since
3.Got one year FRP and after her WRS 12 months completed got 5 years Visa
4.In April 2013 i was Granted PR
5.My wife divorced me in Sep 2013 (Decree Absolute granted in Sep 2013)

my question is am i eligible to apply in DEC 2013 for BC (as permanent residence is automatically attained on DEC 2012,5 years of continous stay)
although the PR i applied late in feb 2012 but i heard its just a confirmation if you want on ur Passport.

so if i am eligible to apply for BC in Dec 2013 what documents i might need,given that i am divorced now,
apologies again if i am interrupting but Tony's story seemed familiar so i thought i might ask as well
regards
jason

[Jambo]

My apologies if i am interrupting

just wanted to enquire a bit more on this

my case is quite similar to Tony,except for me and my wife are divorced now

1.Came in UK as a studen in 2005 Feb
2.Got married to an EEA national in Dec 2007,my ex registered for WRS after a month and have been in continous employment ever since
3.Got one year FRP and after her WRS 12 months completed got 5 years Visa
4.In April 2013 i was Granted PR
5.My wife divorced me in Sep 2013 (Decree Absolute granted in Sep 2013)

my question is am i eligible to apply in DEC 2013 for BC (as permanent residence is automatically attained on DEC 2012,5 years of continous stay)
although the PR i applied late in feb 2012 but i heard its just a confirmation if you want on ur Passport.

so if i am eligible to apply for BC in Dec 2013 what documents i might need,given that i am divorced now,
apologies again if i am interrupting but Tony's story seemed familiar so i thought i might ask as well
regards
jason

Are you in good terms with your ex? If applying in December 2013, you will need all the evidence from her (including passport) to support the application. This is because the PR stamp only has an issue date and it doesn't state when the Pr was actually obtained. If you wait until April you don't need the evidence from your ex.

[JASON451]

thank you for the reply Jambo

yes absolutely on good terms with my ex-
still very good friends with her

her passports and bank statements wouldnt be a problem at all as well as the WRS document certificate

might not have all the payslips though as she hardly keeps them safe

i know you would say what about oneswhen we applied for the Permanent Residence application,but im pretty sure she must have discarded them, i will still be able to figure out a few but not a lot

will bank statements,her passport and WRS be enough?
also she is my ex now,divorced... why would home office still require her documents?

also have a copy of decree absolute stating marriage solemenised on Dec 2007 and irretivately broken down in 2013 sep so decree absolute granted in 2013 sep

i think i can get everything except for her payslips

i appreciate your reply mate
regards
jason

[Jambo]

thank you for the reply Jambo

yes absolutely on good terms with my ex-
still very good friends with her

her passports and bank statements wouldnt be a problem at all as well as the WRS document certificate

might not have all the payslips though as she hardly keeps them safe

i know you would say what about oneswhen we applied for the Permanent Residence application,but im pretty sure she must have discarded them, i will still be able to figure out a few but not a lot

will bank statements,her passport and WRS be enough?
also she is my ex now,divorced... why would home office still require her documents?

also have a copy of decree absolute stating marriage solemenised on Dec 2007 and irretivately broken down in 2013 sep so decree absolute granted in 2013 sep

i think i can get everything except for her payslips

i appreciate your reply mate
regards
jason

Well proof of employment is a critical element of your claim for PR. maybe she kept the P60s or she can ask HMRC to send her employment record.

The reason you need her documents is that unless you wait until April, the PR Confirmation you have is not useful for naturalisation (you need to show you have PR for 12 months). As your PR is based on your wife (at the time) activities, proof of her activities is required. It doesn't matter that you are divorced now.

[JASON451]

thanks again Jambo

so if i can get her to ring tax office to send her statement of earnings from 2007 onwards (i have checked with HMRC they dont issue duplicate p60's)
they refer you to your local tax office for a statement of earnings
i know this as i have already asked for mine from 2007,as i was missing a few p60's


so in terms of document checklist

1.Passports her and mine
2.Bank statements covering 2007 Dec to 2012 Dec ?or 2013 Dec ?
3.Statement of earnings from Tax office from 2007-2012 or 2013? both hers and mine
4.Decree absolute copy(do i need to send it?)
will these be enough for supporting documents?
sorry for troubling you mate
i really wanna get this right

regards
jason

[JASON451]

hi guys
any comments on the above ?

thanks
jason

[JASON451]

@Guru
any comments on that please?

thank you

regards
jason