EU4FAM and children

Latintraveller · Post by **Latintraveller** » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:42 pm

Hi
My wife is due to receive her EU4FAM card in five weeks time. She will use the card to visit the UK next summer.
My ten year old stepson didn't receive a temporary Stamp 4 and I believe he will not receive an EU4FAM card. I view of him probably not receiving this card will he still be able to visit the UK and other places in Europe visa-free.
Thank you.

jeupsy · Post by **jeupsy** » Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:15 am

Just a word of warning that the UK (for a change

) think they are special and don't apply EU laws about visa free entry with a stamp 4 EUFAM. She will need a UK visa or "family permit". It will be free and easy to get though.

You stepson will definitely also need a visa for the UK. For other EU countries I am not sure. Maybe it could be argued that as family member of a stamp 4 EUFAM holder directive 2004/38/EC extends to him for visa free entry; but you really should email the embassy of your country of destination first to ask and have a written confirmation.

logan1980 · Post by **logan1980** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:46 pm

jeupsy wrote:Just a word of warning that the UK (for a change ) think they are special and don't apply EU laws about visa free entry with a stamp 4 EUFAM. She will need a UK visa or "family permit". It will be free and easy to get though.

You stepson will definitely also need a visa for the UK. For other EU countries I am not sure. Maybe it could be argued that as family member of a stamp 4 EUFAM holder directive 2004/38/EC extends to him for visa free entry; but you really should email the embassy of your country of destination first to ask and have a written confirmation.

get the UK visa before travel because UK do not accept EU law , if she travel without the visa to UK and if she is stopped by immigration she will be refused entry and it will make her history bad with UK.

when she has EUFAM then she can travel to other EU countries with EU spouse without visa, but check embassy website before traveling

Latintraveller · Post by **Latintraveller** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:09 pm

I have just heard that my wife can now travel visa-free to all Schengen countries due to a change of requirements for all Peruvian citizens. It is strange though that if we decide to do some shopping in Newry she risks arrest. It is even more frustrating that these family permits have to be renewed every six month which means that we cannot visit the UK if we need to for family emergencies etc if the permit has expired.

dalebutt · Post by **dalebutt** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:21 pm

If your wife successfully obtain an EEA-FP subsequent one will be a walk in the park getting at the port of entry, it is not mandatory to always apply for one, but since you are a UK citizen it is advisable to apply and receive the first EEA-FP, there was a FOI with regards this matter and the reply was it is not mandatory to always apply for one if coming from ROI, with the exception of people who have been previously deported.

Latintraveller · Post by **Latintraveller** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:24 pm

My wife overstayed for several years in the UK. A charity funded by the Home Office assisted her return to Peru at her request. In view of her past will it be harder for her to get a EEA-FP than most people.

dalebutt · Post by **dalebutt** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:36 pm

No, previous immigration history are not taken into account, even for a previously deported person, it will only start becoming a problem if the said individual, prior to them being deported had received a custodial sentence of 2 years or more.

Latintraveller · Post by **Latintraveller** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:39 pm

Thankfully my wife was never in trouble with the law in the UK. Like many overstayers she kept her head down, worked, learned English and sent money home.

Thanks for the information and reassurance.

Latintraveller · Post by **Latintraveller** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:13 pm

I have just looked at the Family Permit application form. It is about 3 times longer than the EU1 form and asks many intrusive questions. It appears that this visa-like document is inproportionate for a weekend in London or a trip to Sainsbury's in Newry.

I notice that this has been challenged in the past but without success.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/ ... 051_en.pdf

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:24 pm

@ Latintraveller,

I've read through your thread and have a number of questions.

1. Why did your stepson not get a residence card? He is covered by the directive as well.
2. Where have you found out that Peruvians will not require Schengen visas? When will this come into force?

For the UK, the UK would like your wife to apply for a visa in advance. She could obtain entry at the border without a visa if she can demonstrate that she meets the requirements. She is unlikely to meet border control between Ireland and the UK. While in the UK, if she meets the requirements of the directive, she would not be there illegally, irrespective of the documentation held.

Latintraveller · Post by **Latintraveller** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:37 pm

Thank you for your interest.
1) I have re-read the articles regarding access by Peruvian citizens to Schengen countries and note that this MAY (not will) be enacted. Apologies for the misinformation.
http://www.andina.com.pe/Ingles/noticia ... 79263.aspx
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/n ... s-say-MEPs

2) I understand that Ireland doesn't routinely provide under 18s with Residence Cards. Maybe it will be in our interest to ask for one for my step-son.

3) Regarding the Family Permit/Visa I guess that if we sail my wife and son will be unlikely to encounter immigration control on entering Britain. If though we attempt to fly (particularly with Ryanair) it may prove more difficult.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:28 pm

I would be inclined to obtain residence card for your son if I were you.

Latintraveller · Post by **Latintraveller** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:19 pm

My wife's five year card is due shortly. I will then ask for one for my step-son.

I have read other postings about the issue of visiting the UK with a Residence Card and have come across this link.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006 ... on/11/made

According to the linked the Immigration cannot refuse entry to the UK to valid family members who have Residence Cards.

I would be interest in other people's experience with this.

Post by **EUsmileWEallsmile** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:23 pm

Basically, the issue can be summarised as follows; a person who arrives at the UK border and show entitlement to enter under the directive (regulations, etc, etc) will be admitted (MRAX), but those who do not have the correct documentation would be refused boarding by carriers.

Latintraveller · Post by **Latintraveller** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:23 am

Therefore in practice would I be right in guessing that if we attempt to travel by air to the UK without a FP (but with EU4FAM, marriage cert etc) there is a high chance of being turned away by the carrier. If though we travel by sea (probably on a rail & sail ticket) there is a much lower chance of the carrier turning us away.

dalebutt · Post by **dalebutt** » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:44 am

Latintraveller wrote:Therefore in practice would I be right in guessing that if we attempt to travel by air to the UK without a FP (but with EU4FAM, marriage cert etc) there is a high chance of being turned away by the carrier. If though we travel by sea (probably on a rail & sail ticket) there is a much lower chance of the carrier turning us away.

It is the same liabilities that apply to all carrier crossing international borders, I would not expect that rail/sail route will be less stringent in enforcing these rules. Border crossing within the CTA is much less of a hassle and you might like to know, I travelled on a bus from Oldham to Dublin, and nobody asked me for visa or the equivalent of such before boarding, on the times that I have plied this route, I have encountered immigration checks at Holyhead (UKBA).

If you met the requirements, it is nothing to worry about.

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EU4FAM and children

EU4FAM and children