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How much does being British COST??

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Branis
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How much does being British COST??

Post by Branis » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:28 pm

Current fees for the British Naturalisation are absolutely outrageous. I don't know exactly why this is so expensive? What on earth does the Home Office cashier think? If immigrants had this sort of money to spare do you think they'd come to Britain in the first place? A few months ago the fees were about £200 and even this is excessive, then it went up to £575, but now the fees are staggering £665! I am not being funny but how can administration fees amount to so much or should we call this a pure 'rip off'?

Besides, what is being bought here for this money anyway?
Can anyone enlighten me? Your views are greatly appreciated

Wanderer
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Re: How much does being British COST??

Post by Wanderer » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:42 pm

Branis wrote:Current fees for the British Naturalisation are absolutely outrageous. I don't know exactly why this is so expensive? What on earth does the Home Office cashier think? If immigrants had this sort of money to spare do you think they'd come to Britain in the first place? A few months ago the fees were about £200 and even this is excessive, then it went up to £575, but now the fees are staggering £665! I am not being funny but how can administration fees amount to so much or should we call this a pure 'rip off'?

Besides, what is being bought here for this money anyway?
Can anyone enlighten me? Your views are greatly appreciated
More dosh required than that. I reckon 2-3000 quid esp with ILR being 750 quid for the postal app.

Supply and demand dood - Her Majesty's Gov. has realised that folks will pay to migrate here and pay well and charges accordingly. Market forces.

Still, the cost keeps out the riff-raff and puts off the Mail Order Bride seekers, don'cha know Old Boy...

SYH
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Re: How much does being British COST??

Post by SYH » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:48 pm

Wanderer wrote: More dosh required than that. I reckon 2-3000 quid esp with ILR being 750 quid for the postal app.

Supply and demand dood - Her Majesty's Gov. has realised that folks will pay to migrate here and pay well and charges accordingly. Market forces.

Still, the cost keeps out the riff-raff and puts off the Mail Order Bride seekers, don'cha know Old Boy...
You think?? There are too many posts of bitter spouses who don't want to sign off on ILR for their spouse or want to know how long they have to wait before ditching the spouse they sponsored.

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Post by Branis » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:56 pm

Thank you for your reply. I agree with you and understand the operation of a market economy clearly the price mechanism co-ordinates the market but the prices are also dependent upon the way markets allocate their resources. So how can we apply this theory to immigration fees?

This must stop somewhere and it will stop only if people refuse to pay so much and campaign against the fees. In which case they face being thrown out of the country. :lol:
So much about equality.

sashank
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Fee

Post by sashank » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:13 pm

First of all we immigrants have no say on the fee set by government because ,

1. We choose this country to be for better life for ourself and for our children therefore we got to sacrifice one off payment.

2. The benefit we get after getting respective status such as ILR or Naturalised British Citizen.

If we disagree with this then there are doors open for all of us to go back to our respective countries and settle there rather than in the UK and moaning about.

I choose to be in this country so I do not have any complaints about it. I would accept all the charges until I afford to pay for it.

Its for sure that there are some reason why they are increasing fees otherwise they wouldnot because boys setting these fees are I think responsible, they know what they are doing and even they know what sort of criticism they will face should they fail to address the issue.

Wanderer
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Re: How much does being British COST??

Post by Wanderer » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:37 pm

SYH wrote:
Wanderer wrote: More dosh required than that. I reckon 2-3000 quid esp with ILR being 750 quid for the postal app.

Supply and demand dood - Her Majesty's Gov. has realised that folks will pay to migrate here and pay well and charges accordingly. Market forces.

Still, the cost keeps out the riff-raff and puts off the Mail Order Bride seekers, don'cha know Old Boy...
You think?? There are too many posts of bitter spouses who don't want to sign off on ILR for their spouse or want to know how long they have to wait before ditching the spouse they sponsored.
Yeah we have had a few lately haven't we! I think they most likely paid the spouse/fiancee fee two years ago when it was cheaper, now the ILR big fee is looming and maybe the wife/husband isn't worth it!

JAJ
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Post by JAJ » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:22 am

How much is British citizenship worth?

RobinLondon
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Post by RobinLondon » Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:43 am

JAJ wrote:How much is British citizenship worth?
JAJ, from this and other posts of yours, it appears that you are of the belief that there is no practical ceiling on what the Home Office may charge for naturalisation. I find this to be an unworkable stance, as there are strong policy arguments against that from the perspective of integration, commitment and inclusion--all of which I take extremely seriously. These arguments are in addition to those surrounding the cynical use of fees as a cash generator by whatever government is in power.

Have I understood your position correctly on this issue? For it seems that every time this subject is raised, your response tends to be a conspicuously normative one: You (the migrant) should pay whatever is asked of you.

I appreciate the time you spend providing help free of charge to those coming to the UK for varying lengths of time. I would, however, like to understand your reasoning on this particular matter a bit more clearly.

Christophe
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Post by Christophe » Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:38 am

JAJ wrote:How much is British citizenship worth?
That, no doubt, varies from person to person: to some people it is worth nothing or not a great deal, to others an inestimable amount.

However, whatever it's worth, I would submit that the amount can't really be measured in terms of money. To try to do so cheapens its worth anyway.

I realise that no one is actually saying that its worth can be measured solely in terms of money, but sometimes it comes perilously close to sounding like that. The question of whether the current fees offer value for money is probably more the question. One thing that is difficult to justify is the fact that the Home Office charges large, quasi-commercial fees but often, it seems, offers a level of service that, if offered by a commercial enterprise, would be considered wholly unacceptable.

Also to be factored in to the thinking is the point that the fees (not just naturalisation fees) have risen a great deal very suddenly after having been relatively static for some time: as with all charges, it would be much better, surely, to increase the fees a little bit each year or each second year (or whatever).

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Post by Siggi » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:09 am

This subject has been discussed over and over, yes it is outrageous!

One thing that the high fee costs do is instill in new immigrants or New Brits a feeling of bitterness towards the Government.
Bearing in mind this is a Government who wants to create a good feeling of fair play and Britishness in new immigrants.

As for immigrants having a choice to leave if they don't like the new fee structure, thats a joke.

Most people before embarking on this long journey to Britain investigated the costs.
In my case the costs in 2003 from the first visa to ILR and nationality would have been around the £900 mark.
Now since settling in the UK the fee costs and new rules have pushed this figure to +/-£2400.

So is that fair and in line with inflation?

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Post by Mini » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:56 am

Immigration is definately not being done by the HO as a trade. Hence supply/demand formula cannot be applied when setting the fees. Inflation could be one justifiable reason for increase and better service standards could be another but as pointed out above, both do not match with the current increase.

As for WORTH...that's a much broader question as the immigrants are not the only ones who gain its also the country.
Mini

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Post by r_raj » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:03 am

I think they are trying to fund the restructuring of the HO (with the creation of the Ministry of Justice, BIA etc) with money generated through visa/naturalisation fees. Also there must have been a substantial drop in their visa takings after most of Eastern Europe joined the EU so they have to make good the shortfall somewhere..

Branis
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Re: Fee

Post by Branis » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:05 am

sashank wrote:First of all we immigrants have no say on the fee set by government because ,

1. We choose this country to be for better life for ourself and for our children therefore we got to sacrifice one off payment.
Exactly so isn't that a good enough reason to question goverments fees and their actions in general. I don't understand why you continualy put yourself down. You like everyone else have the right to be on earth regardless of where the earth is.
2. The benefit we get after getting respective status such as ILR or Naturalised British Citizen.
I'm sorry what benefit is that exactly?? A sticker in your passport whihc you forget about after a week. ( Of course there are exeptional cases I'll give you that)
If I disagree with this then there are doors open for all of us to go back to our respective countries and settle there rather than in the UK and moaning about.
Mate you are far too harsh on yourself.
I choose to be in this country so I do not have any complaints about it. I would accept all the charges until I afford to pay for it.
So if someone told you to go and jump into the Thames you'd do it :roll:
Last edited by Branis on Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mini
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Post by Mini » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:16 am

I think they are trying to fund the restructuring of the HO (with the creation of the Ministry of Justice, BIA etc) with money generated through visa/naturalisation fees. Also there must have been a substantial drop in their visa takings after most of Eastern Europe joined the EU so they have to make good the shortfall somewhere..
They are also going to loose a lot of money after the smoking ban goes up and smokers get miserable and quit smoking. Maybe we can make up for that deficit as well... :D

The NHS is in a deep pit too. Maybe we can help there as wel ??? :D :shock:
Mini

Branis
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Post by Branis » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:21 am

Mini wrote:
I think they are trying to fund the restructuring of the HO (with the creation of the Ministry of Justice, BIA etc) with money generated through visa/naturalisation fees. Also there must have been a substantial drop in their visa takings after most of Eastern Europe joined the EU so they have to make good the shortfall somewhere..
They are also going to loose a lot of money after the smoking ban goes up and smokers get miserable and quit smoking. Maybe we can make up for that deficit as well... :D

The NHS is in a deep pit too. Maybe we can help there as wel ??? :D :shock:
:lol: :lol:

Mini
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Post by Mini » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:28 am

First of all we immigrants have no say on the fee set by government because ,

1. We choose this country to be for better life for ourself and for our children therefore we got to sacrifice one off payment.

2. The benefit we get after getting respective status such as ILR or Naturalised British Citizen.

If we disagree with this then there are doors open for all of us to go back to our respective countries and settle there rather than in the UK and moaning about.

I choose to be in this country so I do not have any complaints about it. I would accept all the charges until I afford to pay for it.

Its for sure that there are some reason why they are increasing fees otherwise they wouldnot because boys setting these fees are I think responsible, they know what they are doing and even they know what sort of criticism they will face should they fail to address the issue.
All countries, governments and public sector are the same. One needs to protest if one is being treated unfairly irrespective of where one is. That is what belonging is.

Sashank - you have chosen this country as your future home...high time you began to belong here and stopped tiptoeing around. They will surely ask you to jump into the Thames for the ILR if you continue to offer that ! :D
Mini

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Post by sakura » Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:19 pm

I personally think there are various factors, one notably being the EU. Since many more migrants can enter the UK market/educational system free of charge or a lot cheaper than non-EU migrants, with nowt but a passport, it means the HO is trying to at least regulate other potential migrants by increasing fees, maybe to offset the lost money or visibility of the newer EU migrants in the UK (for example, free applications for EEA permits, for one - albeit minor - thing). Think of, for example, when the 10 countries joined in 2004, a year or two later there was a whole buzz about 600,000 or so who entered (although I'm sure many were already here). So to calm public outcry, fees go up to deter slow down the non-EU applications, the same reason why rules change. I mean £600+ for ILR is a hefty cost, having to take tests, stay here one additional year, pass tests and maybe, just maybe, do some volunteer work....build the Olympics stadia!!

Or, the government thinks people should pay their way to ILR/BC, since it is a highly valued thing. For one thing, it allows you access to about 30 other national markets/jobs, allows you to fly to at least half the world without a requiring visa, allows you to apply for certain restricted jobs, and gives you more respect. So, for them, all these things should cost money, at least not TOO high for people to complain, but high enough so that you see just how important it is. I mean, they always bang on about 'being British' the value of 'Britishness', the higher number of immigrants, etc. It's like, if you pay money, you'll try harder to integrate! "I spend £350 renewing my visa, I damn well better make use of it!"

Or something like that. So it's a way to weed out the undesirables and to also force people to make an effort in understanding that BC isn't a right but an entitlement that you earn, by paying your way, and to prove you have done so, give us £2,000+! By the way, I'm writing from my opinion of what the HO thinks, not what I think. What do I think? I think the costs are extremely high and a pain, for many people have had to pay enough already. But, there is little one can do, you can't complain about this change, no one has argued it. If they increase the fees again, then one can complain, challenge, but if one wins, it would still be the current (high) costs!

I do think BC is taken for granted; some people just apply for the sake of having a better passport, but not even thinking they are British. This is a lot of murky water, I personally don't think there is a clear meaning of what 'British' means anyway. They always say 'valuing democracy, rule of law' blah blah blah. France does, too. So does Japan. So does Australia...are they all British? So I don't think any 'pledge of allegiance' for new BCs helps at all. So all their value-added is simply another way of showing to the public how tough the immigration system is, or how these people earn their right to BC. Their consultation paper notes how many organisations/institutions agreed with hiring the fees to deter wrong applicants and the like.

But - what else can they do? I think most of us support the English language requirement. But what would you guys think would help? I don't mean amnesty...please not that again! But in terms of general immigration rules/policy.

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Post by sakura » Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:20 pm

Sorry, guys, I didn't realise how long my post was :shock: !!! Break it down to me (your opinion), but don't bite me!! :?

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Post by Siggi » Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:41 pm

But - what else can they do? I think most of us support the English language requirement. But what would you guys think would help? I don't mean amnesty...please not that again! But in terms of general immigration rules/policy.

I wrote the Englishness test in 4 minutes flat and I don't beleive it is sufficient as a test for a language requirement .
New Zealand now ask's all immigrants to write a 700 word esay in English,to prove they can speak English, now thats what I call a test!

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Post by JAJ » Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:42 pm

RobinLondon wrote: JAJ, from this and other posts of yours, it appears that you are of the belief that there is no practical ceiling on what the Home Office may charge for naturalisation. I find this to be an unworkable stance, as there are strong policy arguments against that from the perspective of integration, commitment and inclusion--all of which I take extremely seriously. These arguments are in addition to those surrounding the cynical use of fees as a cash generator by whatever government is in power.
For what it's worth, I am of the view that the naturalisation fees are too high and will need to be reviewed at some stage. For precisely the reasons that you mention. In particular, long standing migrants who are elderly and on low incomes, or those admitted on humanitarian grounds, cannot be expected to afford the fees as they stand.

That said, I don't see why any "skilled" migrant (most of those on these forums) should have difficulty affording the existing fees.

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Post by jes2jes » Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:16 pm

JAJ Wrote:
That said, I don't see why any "skilled" migrant (most of those on these forums) should have difficulty affording the existing fees.
That above is true in some cases but not all. Some 'skilled' migrants until they obtain ILR would be paid almost nothing by their employers for starters due to WP sponsorship. Bear in mind that, if these migrants also have families, then the fees also become astronomical as such.

All said and done, I believe the fees are expensive but compared to what you get (Visa Free travel, Freedom from IC, EU Wide Jobs and residency, right to vote, etc it is worth it) I think it is 'OK' for now. Try applying for a US/Canadian Visa and you would have to pay almost a £100 for the service :roll:
Praise The Lord!!!!

JAJ
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Post by JAJ » Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:29 am

jes2jes wrote: That above is true in some cases but not all. Some 'skilled' migrants until they obtain ILR would be paid almost nothing by their employers for starters due to WP sponsorship.
Work permits are not supposed to be used for low-skill employment. And they are definitely not supposed to be used to undercut the wages of skilled British citizens and residents.

abiswaslaw
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Re: How much does being British COST??

Post by abiswaslaw » Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:47 pm

Hi - can you please help me out in following issues:

Foreign national (C) arrived with student visa in 2007, extended until 2012 - variation extension application under 276ade was refused, FT UT JR permission refused, so did COA on 22/05/2015. C is under process to take the case to ECtHR within six months of refusal deadline should be 21/11/2015. Dated 01/09/2015 SSHD served C a 'notice of liabiliy for removal'.
Tell me what action can be taken or if any powerful ball left in C's hand. Can C serve pre-action protocol or JR against removal notice?

What do we do?
Thanks
S

secret.simon
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Re: How much does being British COST??

Post by secret.simon » Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:42 am

To begin with, your query has nothing at all to do with the 8 year old thread that you have posted in. Please post in another thread. Alternatively, can the mods please split this post into a new thread?

Secondly, to advice you in more detail, can you give a more detailed timeline?
abiswaslaw wrote:variation extension application under 276ade was refused, FT UT JR permission refused, so did COA on 22/05/2015.
When did you make the application for 276ADE? When did you appeal to FT UT, etc?

What were the grounds for applying under 276ade? What are the purported grounds for appealing to the ECtHR?

abiswaslaw
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Re: How much does being British COST??

Post by abiswaslaw » Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:09 am

Thank you. 276ade application was made in end of 2012 prior student leave expire and all other FT, UT, HC, CoA made in time - CoA final permission refused on 22/05/2015. I was informally adopted by my grand parents family and I have been under their supervision under same roof since I was 2 or 3 years of age. They all moved to London living under same roof with Brit/settled status. I was a primary carer for my disabled grand parents who passed away last year this time. My grand mother is elderly and disabled-I am her primary carer. So I have article 8 rights exist that was not valued by domestic court although mentioned in determination. If I have to back to where I am from I might be subject to forced marriage by my biological parents who I did not live with my life. Mainly oral hearing I have received at the FT was faulty as wrong dialog speaking interpreter was provided for my elderly grandparents who were the key witnesses and did not quite got interpreter, so they were confused badly and couldn't answer properly their, dob, immigration status, address, when IJ asked that put deep negative impact in IJ's mind that reflect in determination. Thereafter, permission to appeal in all stages has been refused.
Please inform if any suggestion?

And pl inform if SSHD is bound by law to allow me to stay in UK until case is going or finish in ECtHR or can make removal action? Under what law?
Thanks

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