Entering the UK via Ireland (Dublin) with EEA FP

[jbminger]

I was granted an EEA FP, I do not require a visa to enter the UK, as I am a non-visa national. Unless things change, the current plan is to live in Northern Ireland with my EEA/UK wife.

Would it make any difference to the UK immigration folk or for my future EEA2 application if I am to arrive into Dublin and then travel up to Northern Ireland? My concern is that as there is no border control between Northern Ireland and Ireland, no one would stamp my passport and there would be no official entry for me.

Thanks

[dalebutt]

It is not a problem, your passport shouldn't normally be stamped anyway if you have been issued a Family permit.

[Ayyubi72]

If you are non-visa national, then there was no need to get eea fp.

[dalebutt]

There might be no need to get family permit for a non visa national, but a non visa national must have an entry stamp into the UK if they were to be legally entering the country with the exception of EU citizens, I know travelling within the CTA is less of a hassle, one would not be deemed as entering illegally as a non visa national entering the UK from another country in the CTA but this might cause problems in the future.

[jbminger]

I know that as a non-visa national, the EEA FP was not required, but our case is slightly complicated; dual UK/Irish citizen and myself having lived together in Dublin, then living in the US for 6 years. So as our situation was not cut and dry, I decided it would be best to apply for the EEA FP.

Good to know that entering the UK (Northern Ireland) through Dublin won't be an issue.


Thanks

[chaoclive]

There might be no need to get family permit for a non visa national, but a non visa national must have an entry stamp into the UK if they were to be legally entering the country with the exception of EU citizens, I know travelling within the CTA is less of a hassle, one would not be deemed as entering illegally as a non visa national entering the UK from another country in the CTA but this might cause problems in the future.

is there any way around this? i'm sure it's not possible to ask for a stamp when you get to N. Ireland, but how can you prove when you exactly entered N. Ireland (i.e. UK) when you don't have a stamp in your passport?

Would this affect EEA2/EEA4 timings etc?

[vinny]

Depends on how the OP will be travelling from Dublin to Northern Ireland?

Any Travel tickets, boarding cards, etc?

[dalebutt]

As a non visa national, if one has successfully cleared immigration control in one part of the CTA one could travel to another country within the CTA without requiring further checks, traveller should keep record of travel tickets.

One do not have to prove how one entered the UK if applying under the EEA regulations, it is of no concern to the UK authorities how one has entered as it is irrelevant in decision making process, one could have been undocumented for years, and then acquires right under the regulations it would not matter as long as applicant meets the requirements.

[chaoclive]

That sounds fine then.

They could take the train or Bus Eireann (they used to have a direct bus from Dublin Airport to Belfast). Both take just over 2 hours. Can't remember the price but I'm sure the OPs spouse should know.

Hold on to your tickets!

Best
CC

[jbminger]

Well, typically we would take Bus Eireann, but as we will have 2 cats, and multiple bags, ie "all our worldly possessions", we will be picked up in style in a Land Rover Defender, which will hopefully have all the cow shit cleaned out it!

So, no bus tickets to be had this time around, only a stamp from the Garda in my passport.


What does CTA stand for? common travel area?

Maybe I ought to email the home office and ask them if entering through Dublin will cause any issues for me. anyone have a good contact email address?

[chaoclive]

Yes; CTA is common travel area.

I guess the Garda stamp will not be accepted for UK immigration (that doesn't show when you entered the UK).

However, some people have mentioned above that you don't need any form of stamp: "One do not have to prove how one entered the UK if applying under the EEA regulations, it is of no concern to the UK authorities how one has entered as it is irrelevant in decision making process, one could have been undocumented for years, and then acquires right under the regulations it would not matter as long as applicant meets the requirements."

I'm not worried about you being 'illegal' or needing to prove that you entered legally...that's not the issue here. The only issue that I foresee is proving the date that you entered e.g. when you want to apply for EEA4 (PR). However, at the very least, they can check when you signed your rental contract/job contract/applied for a National Insurance number etc. I guess that would do the trick.

I've got no idea where you could email in the Home Office. Maybe someone else can provide an email address?

Best
CC

[Ayyubi72]

Maybe I ought to email the home office and ask them if entering through Dublin will cause any issues for me. anyone have a good contact email address?

You are worrying for nothing and doing unnecessary research. As spouse of eea national you have right to enter and live in UK. You do not need any stamps in passport. You can enter in the back of a lorry, it will still be 100 percent legal. You do not need to tell Ireland or UK immigration of your departure or arrival.

Once you are in UK, and when you apply for eea2 then that application itself will tell them you are here.

As other members pointed out, under eea regs, how you enter, your status, visa, mode of transport, stamp in passport etc etc are not relevant at all.

[Clubman]

It is not a problem, your passport shouldn't normally be stamped anyway if you have been issued a Family permit.

.
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I don't believe that statement is quite right.

On receiving your EEA-FP visa you will invariably exit the country that your EEA-FP was issued in, and then enter UK.

When you first present your EEA-FP visa to UKBA, border passport control, they will take special notes, and double check the EEA-FP is legitimate.

After they have satisfied themselves that your EEA-FP visa is in order, the immigration officer will stamp your EEA-FP visa with a squarish entry stamp.

This stamp is half on your EEA-FP visa and half on your passport page.
This is your "Initial Entry stamp"

I don't know about stamps relating to your EEA-FP visa when you depart UK and re-enter UK within the 6 month validity time frame that the EEA-FP visa is issued.

Club.

[Ayyubi72]

It is not a problem, your passport shouldn't normally be stamped anyway if you have been issued a Family permit.

I don't believe that statement is quite right.

This statement is actually very right. Passport should not normally be stamped. But some IO's do end up stamping it, and this is not end of the world either.

This idea of "initial entry" or "initial entry stamp" is just your own fancy idea with no basis.

A family member of an eea national does not need a stamp on passport. They can enter in the back of a lorry, on a banana boat, or swim across.

[Jambo]

This statement is actually very right. Passport should not normally be stamped. But some IO's do end up stamping it, and this is not end of the world either.

This idea of "initial entry" or "initial entry stamp" is just your own fancy idea with no basis.

A family member of an eea national does not need a stamp on passport. They can enter in the back of a lorry, on a banana boat, or swim across.

To make it clear - EEA Family Permit do get stamped and this is legal. It's the 5 years Residence Card (following EEA2) that must not get stamped.

[dalebutt]

This statement is actually very right. Passport should not normally be stamped. But some IO's do end up stamping it, and this is not end of the world either.

This idea of "initial entry" or "initial entry stamp" is just your own fancy idea with no basis.

A family member of an eea national does not need a stamp on passport. They can enter in the back of a lorry, on a banana boat, or swim across.

To make it clear - EEA Family Permit do get stamped and this is legal. It's the 5 years Residence Card (following EEA2) that must not get stamped.

That is indeed correct I mistook the entry stamp for landing cards, FP holders are not exempted from entry stamps but exempted from filling the landing cards.

[dalebutt]

Whilst the UKBA policy does not explicitly exempt them from getting entry stamp, it does say thess people are exempted from immigration control, if they are exempted from immigration control it makes the exercise of stamping obsolete.

[chaoclive]

So, how would the OPs situation be dealt with, keeping in mind that there is no border control between ROI and NI?

I've always been curious about this too.

[Jambo]

So, how would the OPs situation be dealt with, keeping in mind that there is no border control between ROI and NI?

I've always been curious about this too.

As advised already, there is no issue here so nothing to deal with.

[dalebutt]

EEA Family permits are issued, without charge, to non EEA national family members of EEA nationals, to enable them to accompany or join the principal in the United Kingdom. Holders of these permits are not subject to control and these permits do not therefore confer leave to enter.

OP can legally enter the UK without receiving an entry stamp, only people who are subject to immigration control require an entry stamp. OP has a right of admission, the family permits only confirms that right.

[chaoclive]

I'm not sure if I'm missing the point...but how can he possibly prove the date on which he is eligible to apply for EEA4 (PR) if he doesn't have an accurate record of his entry to the country?

You will definitely be clear that his EEAFP is of no consequence in Dublin at all and the stamp put in his passport by the Irish authorities at entry into Dublin will not be enough to prove entry into the UK.

If a stamp is not needed (which may be the case), please share your ideas on how he can prove his date of entry to the UK, which is specifically asked for on the EEA4 application form.

This is nothing to do with whether or not he needs a visa, I refer simply to how he can prove the date that he entered the UK.

[Jambo]

There are plenty of ways doing so:

* A picture in front of Big Ben holding a newspaper
* A credit card transaction
* A payslip (if started on work on day 1)
* A bus ticket from ROI to NI

etc...

I would not worry too much about proving the exact date you entered the country. The HO would most likely trust your statement without a proof if you can provide proof for the 5 years. Also in case of the OP (or also you I believe), a PR Confirmation is not really required as most likely the non-EEA national would apply directly for BC (after 5 years) without going through PR Confirmation (as he is married to BC).

[chaoclive]

OK. That's good to know.

Sorry to be pedantic about this but it is a real issue for some people!

Thanks a lot
CC