Can I use Directive 2004/38/EC for non-EEA stepson?

[frustratedbrit]

So I went to the IND today, and the result was not good.

I took all the documentation, passports, etc, as you advised. But we fell at the first hurdle. Apparently the stickers in the passports are not the normal stickers. Well they are, but there's a bit of writing on them, which was never explained to us. Apparently when we made our application, the application was not "complete". The reason, or at least the reason we were told today (I can't believe anything I'm told by the IND anymore) was that our marriage certificate had not be "legalised" (see my previous post on this thread about registering at the town hall). Other than that original vagyue mention of something from the official at the town hall, we have heard had no mention of this in our many, many encounters with both the town hall and the IND since (we had just assumed that the official stamp from the Vietnamese Ministry of Justice, and an translation, authorised with a stamp by the Vietnamese Ministry of Justice, was good enough, thus no further mention by anyone). It has to the Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs apparently, and then it must have another stamp from the Dutch embassy in Hanoi.

Anyway, so because they do not recognise our Vietnamese marriage certificate, they do not recognise our rights under Directive 2004/38/EC. Ta daaa!

I tried to get them to put this in writing to me, but they refused. I asked to speak to the manager and the manager's manager, which I did (we were there 2.5 hours in total), but couldn't really get anywhere. At one point we were told we could get return visas for 140 euros each, at another point we were told that that was definitely not possible because the applications were "incomplete". None of these people would put anything in writing. At least I got the names of the first official and of the manager's manager.

As it happens, it's Vietnam that we want to travel to, so we can get these stamps when we go over. So maybe that's what we'll have to do. And in terms of re-entering the country, well I questioned whether we coudn't just get temporary Schengen visas like last time, but the IND (or at least the official, her manager and her manager's manager) didn't know! If they don't know who does?

I'm thinking this is completely wrong. Surely. The Dutch authorities are entitled to place their own prerequisites about accepting a marriage certificate for their own purposes, I know. But surely when it comes to interpreting the Directive, there are clear definitions of what the prerequisites are??? And surely these prerequisites do not require "legalisation" in the Dutch style? We didn't need this to get in to Holland with our temporary Schengen visa, and why should we need it now?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Has your wife previously received a visa from the Netherlands on the basis of her relationship to you? Did you show a marriage certificate? Have you registered your marriage with the GRO in the UK?

To reduce hassle and the possibility of a time apart, you might want to consider avoiding non-schengen travel until the RC is resolved.

[frustratedbrit]

Yes she has - to get into the Netherlands originally, on a temporary Schengen visa, under Directive 2004/38/EC. And yes she showed our marriage certificate.

I pointed this out to them yesterday, but they did not accept this. They must be wrong about this, surely.

Not doing non-schengen travel is a very unattractive option for us. We are meeting up with friends in Vietnam, who we have promised for years to show round Vietnam, and who have already booked flights. And I have organised an international academic workshop in Vietnam. And her parents have been looking forward to seeing us for the last 11 months.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I would start complaining loudly and formally.

Contact Solvit: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/help-eu-solvit/

Your should also complain in writing to IND.

Lay it out clearly and simply:
You are an EU citizen
Your wife is not
You were married in yyy on ddd
She was issued an initial schengen visa at no cost because she was the wife of an EU citizen.
Nothing has not changed.
You are working in the Netherlands.
Your submitted the RC application on DATE.
They have at most 6 months from DATE to issue the RC.
If they do not issue it within the statutory period, then you will seek compensation from them.
You expect them to comply with the law and issue the RC as required.


What exactly does the original visa say?
Have you registered your marriage with the GRO? (https://www.gov.uk/deposit-foreign-marriage if it applies)

If you do go travelling, I would encourage you to get a couple more copies of the original marriage certificate. Cheap and easy if you are there. Useful to always carry one when you are travelling for example.

[gokulatti]

Hello, been following your post, given that I had an ordeal with IND on eea family permit based on unmarried partnership which was even more complicated and finally got mine after a year following a court ruling!.

Anyway what I am confused about is, you and your wife are married with a Vietnamese marriage certificate, this should be enough for you get a spouse visa for the UK(based on UK national law). ofcourse based on the marriage you should be able to get a EEA family permit for the netherlands. But why do you want to rely on surinder singh judgement to be used for UK when going back? does your wife already not have or qualify for UK spouse visa based on its national law?.

The true intent of surinder singh judgement is to facilitate family ties to be taken back to the EU nationals home country where otherwise directive 2004/38 doesn't apply to eu citizens country of origin. for example say UK national goes to work on a temp basis to another EU state, say holland, he/she gets in to a relationship in holland with a third country national and subsequently made to go back to UK for whatsoever reasons but now has family ties with the third country national which originated in holland but not covered in UK for a UK national. Therefore surinder singh judgment makes way for this kind of situation where it makes it possible to take the family ties back to the EU nationals country of origin.