Visa fraud advice please

[johnnyalpha8]

Hi, my wife is from a non-eu country, I am a British citizen. As I said in a previous post, we are having some relationship problems and she has been displaying some very poor judgement recently.

She got her spouse visa initially in 2011, but violated her probationary period by not remaining in the UK for most of the 2 years.

Last week we had a consultation with an immigration lawyer and explained our circumstances in detail. He told us that ILR is not viable for the above reason. But he did say that she has a good chance of getting another extension providing she includes a statement with her application to explain her absence (along with some evidence for that explanation..which we have). He did however stress that the Home Office are well aware of her absence from the UK, so it is critical that she provides the statement and evidence.

My wife ignored his advise and is about to commit document fraud and pretend that she was in the UK all along by lying on the application form.
I understand this is a serious crime. She also expects me to sign the application and therefore commit the crime of 'Facillitating illegal immigration' which could potentially put me in prison.

My plan is to complete an 'honest' application with a statement explaining her absence and hope she has the sense to sign and use it (after all the lawyer says it has a good chance of success). I will not sign a false application.

I fear she won't cooperate and will forge my signature on the application with the false information.

My question is, if she hands in a false information application form with my forged signature against my wishes, can I be prosecuted, even though 'I' did not sign it? (I have a 3 year old son to think about).

Thanks

[Wanderer]

Mate, you should distance yourself from her as much as possible, you've been used as a visa mule.

Bet she's Russian or FSU...

[MPH80]

Short answer - if she forges your signature - then no - it's on her.

But if she's good at it - you might have a hell of a time proving it wasn't you, particularly if you remain with her!

So - given the situation you're in - I see three outcomes:

1) You separate and do/don't inform UKBA (up to you) - and what she gets up to then is her choice
2) You stay together, commit fraud, and hope you don't get caught
3) You stay together and talk her down from the fraud.

But it sounds to me like if you can't agree on something this fundamental then the relationship is in a pretty rocky place already.

[johnnyalpha8]

When I confront her about it I will video the entire conversation including me refusing to sign a fake application. If she then says that she'll forge my signature, I'll have it on video. From then, I don't know what I'll do. Perhaps I'll stay or just leave with our son..

I have 2 camps of people giving advise, one camp (even a solicitor told be that the UKBA are incompetent) say that she'll get away with it, the other say that there is no way and that she is jeopardising her own and your liberty and the welfare of my son, very selfish.

[johnnyalpha8]

Correction....'A fake application' not 'bad quality'! .....spellchecker issue!!

[johnnyalpha8]

Strange ....I meant a false/lying/ untrue application....the forum is autocorrecting wrongly.

[MPH80]

Well - if all the documentation lines up (keeping in mind she'll have to submit your passport!) and there's a signature ... why would UKBA deny it?

She can submit a copy if she's applying by post - but if you simply take your passport away and hide it - she can't do that.

But I repeat what I said - if you're at a point where you're having to videotape a situation with your wife you need to seriously consider the state of the relationship!

M.

[johnnyalpha8]

I've been told by an immigration lawyer (the one I had a consultation with) that an honest application has a good chance. And that any dishonesty about us living abroad during the probation period are doomed to failure. Her choice to lie seems totally irrational to me.

To be honest, I need a bit of moral support. What do you think? Am I the bad guy?

[johnnyalpha8]

According to the solicitor we saw, the documentation 'won't line up'. The absences from the uk (probation violation) that she intends to lie about are clearly recorded in both of our passports. And also to quote him directly 'the home office are well aware of your absences from the UK'.

[mrkoma2012]

Distance yourself from such an individual.

Also, secretly record using both voice and video any sort of interaction you have.

This will prove invaluable if she tries to be funny in the future.

[johnnyalpha8]

I may have to do just that. MPH80 observed that our relationship is in serious trouble (to paraphrase), no denying that.

I am deciding whether to bully her into applying honestly by recording everything overtly, admissions and so on. Or whether to give her a choice, throw an honestly filled out FLRM on the table, offer to pay for a solicitor directed application...walk away and tell her to call me if she changes her mind.

Based on the info we gave the solicitor last week, her passport and the fact that she was questioned each time she exited the UK by immigration. He is sure that the home office are aware of the length of her absence and any deception will fail.

If I do as she says and sign her false application, there is a fair chance I'll be prosecuted, she won't get away with it and will be barred, everyone will be hurt, not to mention the effect this will have on our infant son.

She can either do the wrong thing or do the right thing, in which case no one will be hurt and she can most probably get her visa. If she cares about our son she will do the right thing and complete an honest application.

In either case I'll have to seperate from her (it sounds like) to avoid suspicion of signing and commiting a serious crime, which I won't.

I hope she makes the right decision, the maybe...we can work on what's left of our relationship.

[MPH80]

I'm going to repeat the point I made before - in order to apply - she has to show evidence of your citizenship.

Take away your passport, birth certificate and any/all home office docs addressed to you (depending on your status) and she can't apply.

M.

[johnnyalpha8]

Thanks for emphasizing that. I may give her my documents and an FLRM but unsigned. I'll then leave the house and tell her to call me when she has completed it honestly, then I will sign and proceed.
This seems to be a safe option, as if she then cheats and forges my signature it's on her.

Or, as your point suggests, I'll remove my passport and bully her saying do it honestly or not at all.

I'll let you know how this plays out and repost as it develops.

[ukswus]

Thanks for emphasizing that. I may give her my documents and an FLRM but unsigned. I'll then leave the house and tell her to call me when she has completed it honestly, then I will sign and proceed.
This seems to be a safe option, as if she then cheats and forges my signature it's on her.

Or, as your point suggests, I'll remove my passport and bully her saying do it honestly or not at all.

I'll let you know how this plays out and repost as it develops.

Just an idea- why don't you complete an "honest" application, then go and make a certified copy, which you can then keep just in case? I am thinking about something like this:

https://www.gov.uk/certifying-a-document