Theresa may is merciless

[Seneca]

Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD):
Why did the Government attempt to remove a dying man at such human and financial cost, and will the Minister give us an assurance today that Mr Muazu will not be deported in his present condition? Will he also instigate an immediate review into immigration detention and end such routine and inhumane treatment, always remembering that asylum seekers—even failed asylum seekers—are human beings just like us and deserve deep respect?

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... wn/72/#c72

At times we tend to forget illegal immigrants are also human like us, looking for the same things , freedom, preservation of their life, better life for themselves and their family. And if it was not for randomness of life we could easily be in their place. Where we are born is just matter of chance.

We are here only for few decades as opposed to billions of years the Universe has existed, in this small point of universe called Earth. In it we try to make all sorts of division , tribals, countries, continents legal/illegals, colours, cities even postcode! Instead of working towards brotherhood of Mankind. Thank Goodness there are still great people in British Politics who can see beyond narrow interests.

[Obie]

When are we going to hear from our elected law maker as to the exact position.

These peers are not elected officials , and are not accounted to any constituents.

The reality seem different. When case went to court of Appeal, Muaza was not eating.

He needs hospitalisation, his condition needs far more than him eating, which anyone who has the faintest idea of medicine will confirm is the case..

Muaza recuperation could take several months, that is if he does not end up with multiple organ failure and brain damage.

With all due respect to the peers, I dont believe they have been properly briefed.

These peers are unelected. They can say anything they like. They are life peers. We want to hear from Teressa May. Why is she so nervous about briefing parliament .

[vinny]

Comment: The case that tells us what kind of country Britain is

May escapes Commons scrutiny despite botched Isa Muazu deportation

Comment: Theresa May can't even get moral failure right

[MPH80]

As is usual for home office questions - the other MPs had 15 minutes for topical questions ... any one of the significant number of MPs who asked questions could have chosen this topic - but they didn't:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 0212000029

No minister is obliged to make a statement on topics like this unless asked.

[askmeplz82]

On the 22nd of June, 2005 a group of six Zimbabwean asylum seekers went on hunger strike for three days.

In August 2008, 13 Iraqi Kurds went on hunger strike and were joined by up a number of others.

On 3 August 2010, over 100 detainees went on hunger strike in protest at being held for up to three years "no prospect of removal or any evidence of future release".


all of them in Campsfield House Immigration detention centre


why they do that?

[vinny]

On 3 August 2010, over 100 detainees went on hunger strike in protest at being held for up to three years "no prospect of removal or any evidence of future release".

Detention centres were not meant to imprison people. They were meant to facilitate deportation in cases where they were specifically required. Now they have grown, unspoken, in the background, a shameful demonstration of the values and priorities of modern Britain.

When he became immigration minister in 2008, Liam Byrne immediately ordered a huge expansion of the programme, forcing through 1,500 additional places. Asylum seekers would now be locked up upon arrival in the country.

These are the most vulnerable people in the world. They are the people gullible enough to believe the dreamy rhetoric about Britain's role as a power for freedom and justice. The face they meet when they arrive is a different one altogether.

Some of them will be f ake, although declining application rates combined with soaring appeal rates suggest that is relatively unusual.

[MPH80]

It is an interesting thought experiment for people ...

If we accept the basic truth that not all asylum claims are valid - how do you ensure, without the use of a detention facility, that those whose claims are deemed invalid leave.

I'm not sure I've got a good answer to it.

[MPH80]

These peers are unelected. They can say anything they like. They are life peers.

Specifically on this point - yes they are life peers, but they can be sanctioned in the same ways as MPs if they mislead the house.

If it gets very serious - they can be held in contempt of parliament.

So that would strongly suggest he is eating/drinking.

I'll be interested to see the outcome of the JR his supporters have tried to push through on his original asylum claim. That would seem to be his last hope.

[MPH80]

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2013/1561.htm

That is the nov 25th judgement.

Apparently permission for a JR hearing has been granted.

[Wanderer]

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2013/1561.htm

That is the nov 19th judgement.

Apparently permission for a JR hearing has been granted.

Interesting he only claimed asylum after his Visit visa expired....

[vinny]

In fact, we were addressed by counsel for both the appellant and the respondent on the basis of the further developments which have taken place since the hearing before Ouseley J. last week. These may be summarised as follows.
(1) A further medical report by Dr. Hartree, instructed on behalf of the appellant, and dated 20 November 2013 reports that on her visit to the appellant on 19 November she found him weak and dangerously malnourished. She considered that he was probably mildly dehydrated, but less so than during her previous visit. She considered that this probably reflected the fact that he had been motivated to drink more water. His weight loss had continued and he had now lost 35% of his body weight. He was at high risk of complications or collapse from malnutrition although it was not possible to predict a timescale of survival. His cognition appeared adequate and he was able to understand and retain information. However, she was concerned that his judgement may be clouded by the effects of starvation. She considered that he was physically unfit to fly, as he is physically so debilitated that he would be at risk of collapse in flight. It would be difficult for him to tolerate the prolonged upright posture and reduced Spam pressure of the flight and these could precipitate an abrupt deterioration. There was also a risk of deep vein thrombosis which in his case would be life threatening. She went on to state:

"Mr. [M] is so malnourished that even if he accepted hospital treatment and re-feeding, I estimate that he would need a few weeks at least, perhaps several weeks, of re-feeding and rest before he would be well enough to travel"
(2) A medical report by Dr. Macfarlane, dated 21 November 2013 states:

"Mr. [M] is able to walk unaided and appears well hydrated. He admits to taking small amounts of water to help with keeping his mouth and throat hydrated. His appearance is consistent in my opinion of someone who is currently keeping hydrated, even if refusing food. I would estimate that even if he were to start refusing fluid (for example after learning of his impending removal) that this assessment would still hold for a further 7 days from that time, unless healthcare HW identify any new issues."
Dr. Macfarlane considered that the appellant is currently fit for flight and travel.
"Mr. [M] is currently fit for flight and travel. His condition should not be affected adversely by altitude. There are no contraindications to the use of control and restraint techniques from a medical viewpoint. Mr [M] would be suitable for a scheduled flight accompanied by a paramedic trained medical escort with iv access competency."
(3) In a separate development the Nigerian High Commission has stated that

it will produce on Tuesday 26 November travel documentation for the appellant.
(4) On Sunday 24 November the appellant was served with removal directions for Wednesday 27 November 2013.

There are clearly differences of opinion between the two doctors who have recently seen the appellant, in particular as to his fitness to fly. However, the lawfulness of the removal directions is not an issue before this court and I should not be taken to express any view on that issue. For present purposes, it is clearly significant that, in Dr. Hartree's view, if the appellant were now to accept treatment and re-feeding he would be well enough to fly in "a few" or "several" weeks. Accordingly, I do not consider that this is a case in which it could be said that, as matters presently stand, if the appellant changed his mind, his state of health is such that there would be no reasonable prospect of removal within a reasonable period of time.

[UKBA HUNTER]

During the above/previous discussions, worth watching the following video as how 1st lying then swearing for asylum and then keep continue discussion again, its funny too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAuAtscuyy8

[peppekalle]

He will not be removed again pending a judicial review
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013 ... re-time-uk

[Seneca]

During the above/previous discussions, worth watching the following video as how 1st lying then swearing for asylum and then keep continue discussion again, its funny too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAuAtscuyy8

You seems to hunt for just negative news about Nigerians you can do that for any nationality. If you wanted you could also find positive news. Like Britain Brainiest family is from Nigerian extractions. They have 5 children all of them broke most records of achievement in education at their age group and their father have already made immense contribution in academics sphere. If you have children or you are in University or school you can also learn a thing or two about how to smash records. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVl0KtUlvQo, or http://imafidons.com/blog. Many British family have benefit from their inputs. Or biggest ebay seller http://sellersphere.ebay.co.uk/post/283. These are just two examples.

Even people who lie deserve humane treatment, Same for mass murderers, rapists, all sorts of criminals. Otherwise if you want to descent to the level of the perpetrator of crime, an eye for eye where would that lead to? And so the rapists should be raped, Murdered should be murdered. Somebody lying should be lied to. That is what i believe is kind of what happened to Saudi Arabia. And so there will be no distinctions between two sides. Both sides will follow their worst instincts, race to Bottomless pit.

[Seneca]

He will not be removed again pending a judicial review
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013 ... re-time-uk

Decency seems to have prevail for now. They way any Government deals with the disfranchised, marginalised, the poor, the outcasts, the strangers, the old, sick, disables and most vulnerable reflect back to that government and the society at large. And in time the same treatment will spread to the whole society.

Words of Martin Niemöller after serving time in Nazi camps:

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Martin_Niem%C3%B6ller

[UKBA HUNTER]

In my previous posts i clearly written that only same ethnicity people are writing here in or protesting in favor otherwise wherever someone read about this heinous act everybody is commenting underneath of the news page including the British or non British society. Unfortunately there is no good news from this ethnicity and only can find if searched/researched. Try to observe one thing that the video i quoted above the man claim is bit near to this present case and very clearly give sense that these acts they already prepared for from their back homes although the actor skill differ. Anyhow now is eating and drinking.

[Obie]

UKBA Hunter you must be warned that this forum is very tolerant to the views of others even if it does not coincides with the vast majority.

However we will not tolerate any act of vilification, lovely or offense towards a particular ethnic group.

Under no circumstances can such action be accepted.

Please take this warning into full consideration.

[Obie]

It is good to know that this disgraceful episode/saga is slowly coming to an end.

Now that removal cannot be defined as imminent, Mr Muaza can now be gramted bail, so he can receive much needed medical attention.

Shame it was not done 3 months ago, or nearly 200k was wasted, before the UK government realised they are acting unlawfully.

[Seneca]

In my previous posts i clearly written that only same ethnicity people are writing here in or protesting in favor otherwise wherever someone read about this heinous act everybody is commenting underneath of the news page including the British or non British society. Unfortunately there is no good news from this ethnicity and only can find if searched/researched. Try to observe one thing that the video i quoted above the man claim is bit near to this present case and very clearly give sense that these acts they already prepared for from their back homes although the actor skill differ. Anyhow now is eating and drinking.

So everyone who have different opinion from yours is of same ethnicity? Is that what you reduce all different opinions to?

Myself I am not from that part of the world, but why does that matter? that is beside the point of this debate.

Don't get sidetracked by ethnicity. Concentrate on the validity of people arguments. Human decency, human rights, dignity of man are common properties.

People can relate to his plight may be because first and foremost they are humans. They can relate with humanness of human condition and the suffering of the world rather than their immediate surrounding. By they way many normal British citizens, Many celebrities, politicians, academics and others have supported this cause. You like research, search that one.

[UKBA HUNTER]

I am afraid to respond any further to you along with more links and sources for especially of your question about celebrity, actors and politicians with majority of people including shining personalities as what they say about it after taking into consideration the warning from Obie.

[Obie]

I am not sensoring you. I have no power to do so, except when breaking forum rules. Just advising you to watch so we dont transform this debate into an ethnic or facial matter. Let us maintain the cordial atmosphere. Many posters have disagreed with my view point, and I hold no animosity against them .

Not everyone in favour is an ethnic, neither is everyone against our view Caucasian.

People from both side of the divide could be decent an law abiding.

We may not see eye to eye on moral or ethical issue, but that is part an parcel of healthy debate in a fuctioning democracy. We have to hold our government accoubtable.

[Seneca]

I am afraid to respond any further to you along with more links and sources for especially of your question about celebrity, actors and politicians with majority of people including shining personalities as what they say about it after taking into consideration the warning from Obie.

My real point is that they can relate and see big picture. It is just some of them got influence and they have decide to use it to counter might government power.

Hope you will reflect more on these concepts of humanity, difficulties, what is like to be ill, sufferings, empathy, poverty, freedom, democracy and human rights in the future. They don't belong to any particular ethnicity. They belong to the world.

[MPH80]

From what I found on Twitter - the JR is an oral hearing on Monday.

So he could still be removed by the end of next week.

I think it's a bit much to jump to the conclusion the removal is now not imminent.

M.

[MPH80]

Hope you will reflect more on these concepts of humanity, difficulties, what is like to be ill, sufferings, empathy, poverty, freedom, democracy and human rights in the future. They don't belong to any particular ethnicity. They belong to the world.

Seneca - Your post implies that if you are on the other side of this argument (e.g. the don't release side) then you aren't feeling any sympathy nor having empathy for people in those circumstances.

I have a lot of sympathy and empathy - but I do not believe that those feelings justify ignoring our legal process or the determinations of our courts of law.

The courts have found multiple times that the government have the right to detain him either in the immigration centre or in a hospital. The courts have found multiple times that he has the cognitive function and understanding to choose to refuse treatment. The courts have found multiple times that the government has offered him treatment.

It has been his choice to refuse food, to selectively take fluid (having read the judgements I'm not going to use the word 'refuse' any more as it's clear he has taken fluid on a semi-regular basis), and to refuse treatment.

The legal process has taken (and continues to) take place. The judges ARE our checks and balances.

I feel for this man that he feels he needs to put himself in this position - but it does not change the basic facts here:

1) He has been an illegal overstayer
2) His asylum claim has been refused
3) He is therefore subject to removal

Now - the JR might change point 2 - which is fine - but his legal team could have put that submission in any time in the last 100 days.

It is not through the government action that this man may die. It is through his own.

M.

[Seneca]

Seneca - Your post implies that if you are on the other side of this argument (e.g. the don't release side) then you aren't feeling any sympathy nor having empathy for people in those circumstances.

I have a lot of sympathy and empathy - but I do not believe that those feelings justify ignoring our legal process or the determinations of our courts of law.

The courts have found multiple times that the government have the right to detain him either in the immigration centre or in a hospital. The courts have found multiple times that he has the cognitive function and understanding to choose to refuse treatment. The courts have found multiple times that the government has offered him treatment.

It has been his choice to refuse food, to selectively take fluid (having read the judgements I'm not going to use the word 'refuse' any more as it's clear he has taken fluid on a semi-regular basis), and to refuse treatment.

The legal process has taken (and continues to) take place. The judges ARE our checks and balances.

I feel for this man that he feels he needs to put himself in this position - but it does not change the basic facts here:

1) He has been an illegal overstayer
2) His asylum claim has been refused
3) He is therefore subject to removal

Now - the JR might change point 2 - which is fine - but his legal team could have put that submission in any time in the last 100 days.

It is not through the government action that this man may die. It is through his own.

M.

That comments about sympathy was mainly directed to My UKBAHunter. Especially when he say the Isa Muazu is looking for sympathy and is coward.

I believe all of us as humans shows sympathy because that is just one of the emotion and part and parcel of being human. We we tend to be selective. The point / question i was posing to UKBAhunter is "can we as society extend our caring a little bit further beyond our immediate family, our kith and kin and our countrymen and women to people who are not relating to us.

I think your post are balanced even through agree and disagree with some of them. But be in doubt, i don't doubt your individual moral values.

Now Back to Muazu, He is mental and physical ILL. He is in no position to make rational choice. Then the question is how should we treat him now, today? That question has already been decided today by relevant authorities, they have done the right thing.

We have agreed and disagree on the way forward. I doubt we will agreed 100%. But you have as much right to put your view across as i do.

Goodnight.