Refusal for 2 points

[Shah05]

Hello everyone, I have been following this link since couple of weeks now and finally I have decided to take all expertise advises.

I applied in January 2013 and we both got refused for same reasons on may 2013 along with my partner ..my appeal hearing is in month of January. Within 10 days successfully we lodged an appeal.

Refusal points:

Insufficient marketing material
English language certificate

Unfortunately the solicitor we hired made a big mistake not submitting marketing material and our MBA degree certificate. We had all ready. Due to my health issue we gave all final work to him.

Now appeal hearing date we got was too far and meanwhile due to family urgency back home, my partner had to leave. So in appeal I am only going to appear by my self. I am trading my business already as a clothing designer and my post is advertising and public relation manager. I have access of £50k as well.

I have hired a solicitor as well, now can you please explain how am I going to convince judge that I am a genuine Enterprenour? I might encounter with different question apart form my rejection points. And can I show / submit all the document which were missed at the 1st place?

Thank you.

Hope will get all the feedback soon.

[tanvir1985th]

Hello everyone, I have been following this link since couple of weeks now and finally I have decided to take all expertise advises.

I applied in January 2013 and we both got refused for same reasons on may 2013 along with my partner ..my appeal hearing is on 30th January. Within 10 days successfully we lodged an appeal.

Refusal points:

Insufficient marketing material
English language certificate

Unfortunately the solicitor we hired made a big mistake not submitting marketing material and our MBA degree certificate. We had all ready. Due to my health issue we gave all final work to him.


Now appeal hearing date we got was too far and meanwhile due to family urgency back home, my partner had to leave. So in appeal I am only going to appear by my self. I am trading my business already as a clothing designer and my post is advertising and public relation manager. I have access of £50k as well.

I have hired a solicitor as well, now can you please explain how am I going to convince judge that I am a genuine Enterprenour? I might encounter with different question apart form my rejection points. And can I show / submit all the document which were missed at the 1st place?

Thank you.

Hope will get all the feedback soon.

my suggestion is do not go for appeal coz u r probably going to loose it for 2 reasons. first of all not giving certificate even tho u had it. now a days court dont accept anything which was not provided at the time of application and 2ndly how can u claim that u have access to £50000 yrself u made application as a team. u must show money in yr own account. so keep money in yr own account and include the certificate this time and make a fresh application. thats the best i can suggest

[Shah05]

Thank u, but I think it's not advisable to not appear in a court. Yea when we applied we had£25k each. Nw I have £50k on my own. So that's y I said I have got acces of £50k.


Anymore feedbacks guys?

[rooney0511]

Hello everyone, I have been following this link since couple of weeks now and finally I have decided to take all expertise advises.

I applied in January 2013 and we both got refused for same reasons on may 2013 along with my partner ..my appeal hearing is on 30th January. Within 10 days successfully we lodged an appeal.

Refusal points:

Insufficient marketing material
English language certificate

Unfortunately the solicitor we hired made a big mistake not submitting marketing material and our MBA degree certificate. We had all ready. Due to my health issue we gave all final work to him.

Now appeal hearing date we got was too far and meanwhile due to family urgency back home, my partner had to leave. So in appeal I am only going to appear by my self. I am trading my business already as a clothing designer and my post is advertising and public relation manager. I have access of £50k as well.

I have hired a solicitor as well, now can you please explain how am I going to convince judge that I am a genuine Enterprenour? I might encounter with different question apart form my rejection points. And can I show / submit all the document which were missed at the 1st place?

Thank you.

Hope will get all the feedback soon.

I will only comment on the English Language Certificate.
They should have used Evedential Flexibility and also the new form nowadays have something like previously submitted which means it was submitted while applying for PSW and only on that basis your PSW was granted.
Look out for that and you should be OK.

[Olasunkanmi]

@ Shah05, I think that since your situation have changed in regard to now being the only director of the business, technically your initial application might now be refused even if you win the appeal and judge ask them to reconsider your case. The issue of MBA certificate not submitted might easily be defended with evidential flexibility if you have indicated your degree on either CV or business plan, if not then you should hope for a lenient judge.

Also in regard to insufficient advertisement, what advert material did u submit?

Finally, I will advise that you make plan for a fresh application with all correct documents and submit immediately within 28days if the appeal is not successful.

[Shah05]

Thanks olasunkanmi and rooney0511, actually I have been told same for English language certificate by my lawyer. But he also mentioned that each case will be judged differently.

Regarding marketing material my solicitor just took a print out of my website.

Now my point is that if I am appearing in court on the day of event what documents shall I carry with me? I am thinking of taking bank statement showing £50k, advertising material n degree certificate.

Any ideas what questions I may be encounter with?

Thanks.

[Olasunkanmi]

@ Shah05, take all important documents with you to the appeal hearing and don't forget about your trading activities evidence as well as HO representative reserve the right to query every applicants on their business activities.

Try your luck and if you are not successful, submit a fresh application within few days of the appeal decision.

Best of luck.

[Shah05]

Thank u olasunkanmi, I M also hoping for best. Now regarding preparation of new application I have a question.

Q: I will change the companys name, As I will be solo applicant by than. So can I register another company before closing down 1st one on the same address?

[Olasunkanmi]

@ Shah05, If the previous company is already trading, then no need registering another company. All you need to do is take off your partner as a director and you will now be the only director.

Better to carry on with your existing company if you still render the same service as changing it might bring further query from HO as to your genuineness as they will see you as being unstable and they will interpret it as registering the company just for the purpose of visa and not doing business.

[Shah05]

@ olasunkanmi, I also thought that, but in policy guidance it has to be registered within 3 months of application. That's why I was thinking to change. If I can keep the same company than how I ll fulfil the requirement of 3 months period? Do I need to proved any other letter mentions how long company been trading?

[Olasunkanmi]

@ Shah05, the 3months registration is a grey area and lot of people have got visa issued with company that is older than 3months. I haven't come across anyone who have got visa refused for this particular reason. There are some members who also submitted second application after their first application got refused and they still got their visa without any problem.

Logically, Home Office won't expect anyone to register a new company if they have started trading in the company which they use for their first application.

[Shah05]

@olasunkanmi , thank you for getting back to me quickly, as I m in process of preparing new application as well. These informations are too much useful to me.

If I in case of appeal rejection and I want to go to upper tribunals, how long the total process take? And if in case I am making fresh application in worst case do I get a chance of appeal again or not?

I have a new born baby as well born in may 2013, so his passport application hasn't been Done as our passports n visa are not yet done. So while making a new application how it should work? Do I have to apply along with my partner n after possive outcome shall I apply for my baby?

Thanks

[Olasunkanmi]

@ Shah05, check the appeal topics on the forum and you will have an idea about the time-frame as its usually different for individuals.

If you make a fresh application, you will not get an appeal right but if you are very confident of your case, you can progress to court for JR which have also proved very successful for lot of applicants on this forum.

[ILR1980]

I have attend hearing so I can confirm that they only look at evidence or document you submitted at the time of application..in my case I showed third party money in pakistan and bank was not giving us letter home office required sk i had transferred same money in uk and got letter from uk bank but they did not even bother looking at it at the time of hearing..many lawayers dont give proper advice to their clients

If you submitted documents which were not original in case of degree or if you had document with some missing information then you will be fine because it come under evidential flexibility

Did you provided any advertisement material ? You just need to defend the refusal points. You can attend hearing by your own..even in court room its barrister who speak on behalf of appelant and we just listeners ..

[Shah05]

@morden_newton, thanks for reply, unfortunately my solicitor didn't put the advertising material except my website. We had that but I can't prove that at this point that I m aware. Can we raised an argument for 'insufficient material' we would have been given an opportunity to submit at least and we could have granted the visa? It's just I m thinking about different point of view.


I have mentioned earlier about doing new application after hearing if rejected, with baby how can I go? Can anyone please advise?

Thanks a lot, all suggestions are welcome.

[ILR1980]

@morden_newton, thanks for reply, unfortunately my solicitor didn't put the advertising material except my website. We had that but I can't prove that at this point that I m aware. Can we raised an argument for 'insufficient material' we would have been given an opportunity to submit at least and we could have granted the visa? It's just I m thinking about different point of view.


I have mentioned earlier about doing new application after hearing if rejected, with baby how can I go? Can anyone please advise?

Thanks a lot, all suggestions are welcome.

You don't need to worry about irrelevant things and just concentrate on refusal points because only these points will be discuss in court room. The problem is Home office or judge dont consider any new evidence or document at the time of hearing after refusal. If you would have send the photo copy of MBA certificate then you would be fine because you could show the original certificate in court. Problem is not advertisement because they don't give any information about how much marketing material is sufficient for them so you will be fine even with one website

I would suggest you make a new application if you got a time because this time you will get idea what you will have to provide and make sure dont leave anything mentioned in policy and do prepare it yourself as its not difficult and you got the money then even if home office refuse then you will have 100 percent chance of winning it easily in court if you satisfy all the legal points and rules. If i had plenty of time bfore making application i never leave anything for which home office could refuse

[Shah05]

@modern_newton, thank you very much. I guess you are right if I will try to prove points in a right n legal way than most likely there are chances that I can convince to produce positive outcome.

Hoping for the best. Thank you guys for all the information.

[Olasunkanmi]

You don't need to worry about irrelevant things and just concentrate on refusal points because only these points will be discuss in court room.

@ modern_newton, you might be lucky to just sit down in court room without being ask any question, but that doesn't mean its the same for every appellant. Some appellant get grilled by HO representative on other issue in relation to the business apart from the refusal points, So best option is to be prepared for any query or questions from HO representative or judge. I will advice that you read the topics on appeal to get a view about other members experience of the hearing.

[Shah05]

you are also right, @ olasunkanmi, each case will be judge differently as i have read many topics on appeal.I will be lucky enough if they will just stick to the relevant refusal point. but even if I will be questioned about business or other things, I am sure I can satisfy them with the answer. My only worry is about my partnership. As i am left alone. If by chance I am getting rejection on that than hopefully as u said within few day I will be completely ready with all the documents...

[ILR1980]

You don't need to worry about irrelevant things and just concentrate on refusal points because only these points will be discuss in court room.

@ modern_newton, you might be lucky to just sit down in court room without being ask any question, but that doesn't mean its the same for every appellant. Some appellant get grilled by HO representative on other issue in relation to the business apart from the refusal points, So best option is to be prepared for any query or questions from HO representative or judge. I will advice that you read the topics on appeal to get a view about other members experience of the hearing.

Yea you may be right but even if home office representative ask irrelevant questions from appealent then judge ask him to be quiet because they had no objections about others points when they recieved the application form and all relevant documemts so whats the point of having arguement about them just for sake of it and wasting time of court. I attended many hearing that day and all dicusson revolved around argument and counter argumemts based on refusal points. Its not interview but hearing

To be honest I wanted them to ask questions from me so I dont find myself lucky..the more questioms he will ask the more judge will come to know about their lame logic so noneed to afraid..

[Shah05]

@Modern_newton, thanks for sharing your experience. Really appreciate. The best thing to do at the moment for me to get prepare for worst.

[ILR1980]

@Modern_newton, thanks for sharing your experience. Really appreciate. The best thing to do at the moment for me to get prepare for worst.

don't worry dude you will be fine. so you have decided to go with the appeal or to make a fresh application ?

remember me in your prayers as well because i am also waiting for decision of my appeal

[Shah05]

@morden_newton, actually my appeal hearing is in a month of January. So I am going for that but at the same time as I am having time, so preparing for the new application as well, if in case I will have to....though I have proceed 1st application still I think I would have to be more careful this time..

And definitely, my good wishes are always with you. I hope you will get ur positive result soon.

[ILR1980]

@morden_newton, actually my appeal hearing is in a month of January. So I am going for that but at the same time as I am having time, so preparing for the new application as well, if in case I will have to....though I have proceed 1st application still I think I would have to be more careful this time..

And definitely, my good wishes are always with you. I hope you will get ur positive result soon.

Thanks

when your current leave to remain will expire

yea its good to make fresh one if this one failed and you should prepare it carefully so that they dont find any point to refuse it. Its always better to give them what they ask for even if it dont make sense because they dont use mind and logic.

[Shah05]

Already expired.