Anyone Applied between 13/12/2012 - 06/04/2013. Must read it

[Funjabi_Munda]

Dear Gurus!

Here is the Time Line:
My PSW visa is expiring: 08-Jan-2014
My team Members visa expired on: 09-03-2013
We both applied with £50,000 investment on: 07-03-2013
Application was Refused on: 15-05-2013
Right of Appeal was given to My team member NOT TO ME because I had a valid leave to remain at the time My visa was refused:

My team member's appeal hearing date is 15-February 2014, however my visa is expiring on 08th of Jan.
I want expert advice from all you gurus. can I reapply as team member of person whose visa is expired and also if I can reapply will I be able to use £50,000 joint bank statement for my sole application? I am confused because the Rules says that if you want to use £50,000 investment funds BOTH TEAM MEMBERS SHOULD BE QUALIFIED TO USE 50,000 FUNDING OTHERWISE THE INVESTMENT funds WOULD BE £200,000. I think because my team members visa is expired he is ineligible now to use £50,000 investment funds.

REFUSAL REASONS:-

1) We had not provided Advertising and Marketing Material
2) Contract didn't have other party's complete contact details
3) Our monies 25k n 25k were in our persoanl bank accounts.

Defence:-

since the UKBA had not given me appeal right I complained to the UKBA against the irrational grounds and not properly checking my application.
Received UKBA response in which they accepted that contract was fine and apologized for not checking my contract properly.

NOW TWO REFUSAL GROUNDS REMAINING

With regards to the Advertising & Marketing Material missing; The Application form which we had submitted was (12/2012 Version) valid from (13/12/2012 to 06/04/2013). What happened is that UKBA had deleted Marketing n Advertising Material Question from the application form we had submitted which made us confused. UKBA said in its response it is not important to ask questions in the application form? you should have provided marketing material according to the Paragraph 117 and 41-SD (c) of the policy guidance. My plea is that Public bodies always treat it customers equally. and they had not provided me equall opportunity to understand its rules and form. It was confusing for me. The same question was part of two previous versions of the form (April n October 2012 however the UKBA deleted this question from December 2012 version of the form which we submitted). If it is not important for UKBA to ask questions in the application form then why UKBA had added back the same question to the two newer versions of the form (April n October 2013). It was moral and professional duty of the UKBA to make that question part of the form by writing to the Applicants who had submitted December 2012 form or should have issued a statement on the UKBA website as they normally do time to time ...

For £50,000 funds ... they said as the money was not in a joint a/c YOU should have acted as third parties to each other. We actually had submitted two personal bank statements (Not Join Account) having total £50,000 + Third party Declaration as per Guidelines. Now the immigration rules (Paragraph 90, 92 n 93) says that if the money is already in the UK you must submit Bank Statement or letter from Bank (NO THIRD PARTY OR BUSINESS BANK A/C ACCEPTED)
We had also provided third party declaration according to UKBA guidelines because We knew that UKBA could refuse our application as the money in not joint a/c and also our banks had refused to issue such letters as it was not their policy to issue such letters however the money was available in the UK bank accounts BUT FRIENDS point is that If the money was not in JOINT A/C even then we had provided bank statements with £50,000 available in the UK. If the caseworker was not satisfied with the format of the Bank Statement he should have written to us in accordance with paragraph 17 of the policy guidance which clearly instructs the caseworkers to write to the applicant if the provided evidence is in wrong format?

What do you thinks GURUS Do we have strong defence? or we should step down

Please give me the best expert advice

[Olasunkanmi]

@ Funjabi_Munda,

I think because my team members visa is expired he is ineligible now to use £50,000 investment funds.

Your team member still have a pending appeal and therefore still has the last PSW visa extended and you guys can continue your business trading and you can also submit a fresh application before your visa expires using the same team member as he can win his appeal if your refusal reason/s are easily defendable.

It will be better to state your refusal reason/s so that people can advise you better on the alternative.

[babylondoner]

You should have gone for judicial review after your refusal.

I think your best option is to reapply as a sole applicant with sole access to the funds. Your partner should get a letter attested by a lawyer and yourself confirming that he has access to his own funds.

It's obvious this partnership can no longer work and both of you just have to split (no thanks to UKBA).

Your partner is eligible to apply using the 50k category because his last leave was PSW.

[Funjabi_Munda]

You should have gone for judicial review after your refusal.

I think your best option is to reapply as a sole applicant with sole access to the funds. Your partner should get a letter attested by a lawyer and yourself confirming that he has access to his own funds.

It's obvious this partnership can no longer work and both of you just have to split (no thanks to UKBA).

Your partner is eligible to apply using the 50k category because his last leave was PSW.

Thank You BabyLondoner for reply ...
What If my team member withdraws his appeal? will we both then be able to apply together with access to £50,000? Bro. Please reply

[Funjabi_Munda]

@ Funjabi_Munda,

I think because my team members visa is expired he is ineligible now to use £50,000 investment funds.

Your team member still have a pending appeal and therefore still has the last PSW visa extended and you guys can continue your business trading and you can also submit a fresh application before your visa expires using the same team member as he can win his appeal if your refusal reason/s are easily defendable.

It will be better to state your refusal reason/s so that people can advise you better on the alternative.

Thank You Bro. I have written my refusal reasons in the post please comment on my defence

[Olasunkanmi]

@ babylondoner,

It's obvious this partnership can no longer work and both of you just have to split (no thanks to UKBA).

There are cases of partners having different appeal date and one got visa issued because the appeal was heard almost 4months or so before the other partner appeal date. Funjabi_Munda can submit fresh application as team even when the partner's appeal is still on, they just need to make sure that their business continue to trade at all time to proof their genuineness.

They don't need to split for few reasons;
(1) The appeal is likely to be successful as the refusal reasons are easily defendable.

(2) They must have claim to have start trading and if they now split up, HO may question their genuineness.

(3) Lastly, its easy for the 2 partner to proof investment of 50k jointly during extension rather than 50k each.

@ Funjabi_Munda, its your choice if you want to go solo now, but think very well about the implication of doing that.

[Olasunkanmi]

@ Funjabi_Munda, base on your refusal reasons, I will like to ask 2 questions;

(1) On the advertising material, do you submit either your website printout, business card and flyers at all?

(2) Since you both have 25k each in your personal account, did you both submit signed declaration attested by a legal representative for one another?

[Funjabi_Munda]

@ Funjabi_Munda, base on your refusal reasons, I will like to ask 2 questions;

(1) On the advertising material, do you submit either your website printout, business card and flyers at all?

(2) Since you both have 25k each in your personal account, did you both submit signed declaration attested by a legal representative for one another?

No I hadn't submit nothing at all. because the Home Office had deleted the question from the form which made us confuse. There are two possibilities one can perceive from the literature available for the applicants who applied between 13/12/2012 and 06/04/2013. One is that Home Office had deleted this section (Marketing Material) and forgot to delete it from the policy guidance. 2nd is Home Office may have deleted it by mistake. Whatever the case Sir. The Applicants were not sure on whether it is part of the application or not. one more thing if it was UKBA mistake then why should applicant suffer? They hadn't provided us equal opportunity to understand the literature as Home Office has given others. If we could provide all the documents asked in the application then why not marketing material?


Yes we had submitted that declaration with our bank statements stating that we both are investing 25k each which is not less than £50k and we both have equal access to these funds and they are set aside for the busniss name XXX. signed by solicitor, me and my team member. Everything required in the so-called document-2 (of Appendix D) were written on the declaration.

What I'm asking you gurus is that when funds are available in the UK then it should be in team members accounts only (NOT IN THIRD PARTY's A/C). Source: Paragraph 93 of Policy guidance

The Monies were in team members bank accounts, However the caseworker prescribed us to act as third parties to each other, which we obviously cannot according to the immigration rules. Money in Third Party Accounts is only accepted if it is held out of UK.

[babylondoner]

@ babylondoner,

It's obvious this partnership can no longer work and both of you just have to split (no thanks to UKBA).

There are cases of partners having different appeal date and one got visa issued because the appeal was heard almost 4months or so before the other partner appeal date. Funjabi_Munda can submit fresh application as team even when the partner's appeal is still on, they just need to make sure that their business continue to trade at all time to proof their genuineness.

They don't need to split for few reasons;
(1) The appeal is likely to be successful as the refusal reasons are easily defendable.

(2) They must have claim to have start trading and if they now split up, HO may question their genuineness.

(3) Lastly, its easy for the 2 partner to proof investment of 50k jointly during extension rather than 50k each.

@ Funjabi_Munda, its your choice if you want to go solo now, but think very well about the implication of doing that.

Agreed but in this case, the poster (who still has a valid visa) chose not to appeal against his refusal while his partner did. If they had both appealed against the decision, he won't have been in this limbo. So that's the major issue.

Once his visa expires, he has to either reapply as a sole applicant or leave the country.

[Olasunkanmi]

@ babylondoner,

Once his visa expires, he has to either reapply as a sole applicant or leave the country.

I dont think there is any rule in the immigration rules that says he can't apply again with the same team member. Its just the sane as if both have re-apply with same funds and correcting the mistakes in the earlier application.

[Funjabi_Munda]

@ babylondoner,

It's obvious this partnership can no longer work and both of you just have to split (no thanks to UKBA).

There are cases of partners having different appeal date and one got visa issued because the appeal was heard almost 4months or so before the other partner appeal date. Funjabi_Munda can submit fresh application as team even when the partner's appeal is still on, they just need to make sure that their business continue to trade at all time to proof their genuineness.

They don't need to split for few reasons;
(1) The appeal is likely to be successful as the refusal reasons are easily defendable.
(2) They must have claim to have start trading and if they now split up, HO may question their genuineness.

(3) Lastly, its easy for the 2 partner to proof investment of 50k jointly during extension rather than 50k each.

@ Funjabi_Munda, its your choice if you want to go solo now, but think very well about the implication of doing that.

Agreed but in this case, the poster (who still has a valid visa) chose not to appeal against his refusal while his partner did. If they had both appealed against the decision, he won't have been in this limbo. So that's the major issue.

Once his visa expires, he has to either reapply as a sole applicant or leave the country.

@babylondoner Guru Jee you didn't get me ... Since I had a valid visa UKBA didn't give me right to Appeal ... It is Law then how can I appeal ...

My team member whose visa was expired on the decision date UKBA gave him right to appeal however his hearing date is in February but my visa is expiring next month in January ...

Dear Gurus @Olasunkanmi and @babylononer could you advise me on Marketing and Advertising Material. Do we have a strong defence regarding advertising Material Missing (Please read from my post). If it is then I can take a chance to apply as a team. Otherwise I have to apply solely...

[Funjabi_Munda]

Guys do not mind Babylondoner because she had a tough time fighting her appeal, she has won the appeal though but the impact that this case left on her mind is still there.

babylonder sis why do not you take some time off trust me it would bring a good impact to your mental health.

thanks,

Princess of Ammi Do you have any advice for me? Please read my case and if you're willing to advise me PLEASE FOCUS ON THE MARKETING MATERIAL SECTION ... thanks

[babylondoner]

@ babylondoner,

Once his visa expires, he has to either reapply as a sole applicant or leave the country.

I dont think there is any rule in the immigration rules that says he can't apply again with the same team member. Its just the sane as if both have re-apply with same funds and correcting the mistakes in the earlier application.

Agreed. However, is his team member willing to withdraw his on-going appeal?

[babylondoner]

@ babylondoner,
.

@babylondoner Guru Jee you didn't get me ... Since I had a valid visa UKBA didn't give me right to Appeal ... It is Law then how can I appeal ...

..

I know. You could have gone for judicial review when you still had the opportunity.

Anyway, whatever decision you take, good luck.

[Funjabi_Munda]

@ babylondoner,
.

@babylondoner Guru Jee you didn't get me ... Since I had a valid visa UKBA didn't give me right to Appeal ... It is Law then how can I appeal ...

..

I know. You could have gone for judicial review when you still had the opportunity.

Anyway, whatever decision you take, good luck.

My Team Member wants to pursue his appeal and I want to re-apply on the same business documents and joint a/c statement.

I want your comments on the Marketing Material Question deleted by UKBA. Do you think Judge would accept our plea about the UKBA's mistake?

[babylondoner]

Can someone please tell me how to report this individual to the moderators?

She has broken the forum rules by insulting me for no reason at all and without any provocation from me.

[Amber]

Princess of Ammi and babylondoner please refrain from abusing each other. Princess of Ammi if I catch you provoking members again with abusive/offensive comments I will not hesitate in banning you.