EEA Family permit vs UK spouse visa

[Platinum]

Hi, all. I'm one of those non-EU married to EU refugees from Ireland. I'm American and married to a UK citizen who has been exercising his EU treaty rights in Ireland. Therefore, we can apply for either the EEA FP or a UK spouse visa for me to move over to the UK with him.

I know there are differences in fees and time to become a UK citizen, but is there any difference between them in when I can start working? If I get an EEA FP, can I start working when I arrive, or as soon as I've submitted the residency application? What about for the spouse visa? I think I can work right away on a spouse visa, is that correct?

I would be especially interested to hear from anyone who has been successful for the EEA FP.

Thanks for any help.

[sakura]

EU refugee??? From Ireland? You're confusing me...where are you planning on living?

If your partner is living in Ireland (rep) (and is a UK [EEA] citizen) then you apply for an EEA family permit. If you decide to move to the UK, then you apply for a spouse visa (or EEA if you wish). A spouse visa is a UK (only) visa and is only available for use in the United Kingdom. So you can't apply for a spouse visa and live in Ireland, no.

So...Ireland, then EEA family permit. UK, then spouse visa.

Is your partner eligible for Irish citizenship, perchance?

As for employment, Ireland is a bit tricky with EEA permits so best to post your queries in the Ireland board section.

[Platinum]

EU refugee??? From Ireland?

That's what I get for trying to joke about the situation.

Sorry. Ireland's being difficult about processing EEA family permit applications, so my husband and I are thinking about moving to the UK.

I know I can apply for either the EEA family permit or a spouse visa (both for the UK- we're no longer interested in living in Ireland), but I wanted to know which will allow me to work soonest and with the least hassle.

I've been sitting around waiting for the Irish authorities to make up their minds about my application, so I'm really anxious to know the UK rules for working.

[Docterror]

but I wanted to know which will allow me to work soonest and with the least hassle.

Both of them allows you to work, but the EEA family permit would fit the latter criteria. The spouse visa could get you the ILR/PR (Permanent Residence) in 2 years but is be the costlier alternative.

Want to get the better of both worlds? I got 2 words for you - "ppron method".

[yankeegirl]

Docterror,

I've been reading the Ireland boards and have a question. If the UK Embassy in Ireland won't accept the FP application in Ireland, wouldn't the OP have to return to the US to apply for the spousal visa?

The problem with Ireland is they are taking well in excess of 9 months to decide EU1 applications, most of which are being denied on the grounds that the couple did not previously live in another EU state prior to moving to Ireland. So, the non EU spouse enters, gets a stamp for one month, and then nothing for months.

There have been a few members on here that have inquired about applying from within Ireland, but the UK Embassy won't accept those applications, as the individuals don't have proof that they are legally resident while their application is pending, and the Irish government is unwilling to provide it.

If thats the case, the wouldn't the OP have to make the app from the US? And if that's so I would think they would have to apply under the UK immigration rules. Her spouse is a UK citizen and I thought the Singh rule only applied to applications made from within the EU.

I'm just wondering what your opinion on the matter is since you're one of the experts Maybe I'm looking at it wrong lol.

[Docterror]

Yankeegirl, thanks for the kind words and the terrific catch as well.

I am aware the the British Embassy in ROI does not take up any applications for the EEAFP from spouses denied the EU1 applications. And honestly speaking, they are not obliged to, as the applicant should demonstrate legal residence in the EU Member state for the British Embassy to accept the application according to the guidance for ECOs.

Even though I had envisioned the OP to make the application from the US, I forgot to take into account that the Surinder Singh route may get closed if applied from the US. There is no guarantee that the British Embassy in the US will not allow the route as there is no provisions that says the Surinder Singh route can be applied only from within the EU. And even then they may ask to demonstrate lawful residence in ROI to avail the route. Nonetheless, it would be prudent to contact the Embassy that the OP will be applying in before taking any plunge.

If all else fails, one might even think about crossing over to N.I by road and then flying over to mainland UK effectively bypassing any border control and then applying for the Residence Card using a certified copy of the passports and thus get 'Certificate of Application' as proof of ability to work and use the real passport as proof of ID while hunting for work and still be able to avail the EEA route as well. While it may sound not too legal, it conforms totally with laws as far as I can see it. See any holes?

[Platinum]

I'm not sure about this, but I think there are a couple of people from the Ireland forum where the non-EU spouse has gone back to his/her home country and successfully applied for an EEA FP from there.

My understanding of the Surinder Singh law is that it basically allows an EU citizen who has been exercising his/her EU treaty rights in another EU country to move his/her family back to the home country under EU laws, rather than under domestic laws. The EU laws don't require prior residence in another EU country first (well...except for the Irish interpretation), so I don't think applying under Surinder Singh would require me to show legal residence in Ireland, if I apply in the US. My husband would have to prove legal residence in Ireland, since he would be saying that he's moving back to the UK after exercising treaty rights in another EU country. But that's easy enough- he has Irish job contracts and such.

Did that make sense?

Actually, I will be in London tomorrow for a job interview. When I come back into Dublin, they'll give me one of those "one-month-report-to-the-GNIB" stamps. If it's anything like the first two they gave me, the stamp will say "join spouse". I'm going to try to use that stamp to apply from Dublin. If that doesn't work, I'll fly back to the States.

Total nightmare of a situation.

[Docterror]

I'm not sure about this, but I think there are a couple of people from the Ireland forum where the non-EU spouse has gone back to his/her home country and successfully applied for an EEA FP from there.

And are any of them the non-EEA spouse of a UK national using the Surinder Singh route? Chances are most of them are family members of EEA nationals other than from the UK. But incase you do know anyone who has successfully used the Surinder Singh route successfully, then by all means do try and let us know of the outcome as well.

...so I don't think applying under Surinder Singh would require me to show legal residence in Ireland, if I apply in the US...

I am sorry but I donot think that you are entirely right in this interpretation according to 21.4.8 of these instructions which states (emphasis are mine)-

It is confined to those cases where a British national has exercised an economic Treaty right and the Non-EEA national family member can demonstrate their lawful residence in a member state.

This view is also further supported by 2.5.1 of these ECIs.

I will be in London tomorrow for a job interview....

I strongly suspect that you used the Visa-waiver on your American passport to come here and if your plan does work out, it will indeed be a great way out to get the EEAFP. Too bad others not eligible for visa waivers will not be able to manouver out this way.

[yankeegirl]

I am aware the the British Embassy in ROI does not take up any applications for the EEAFP from spouses denied the EU1 applications.

They aren't accepting applications from those who have EU1 applications pending either.

Platinum, have a search through past posts of a member named Birdy. He's one half of a UK-US couple and his wife had to return to the US to apply for a spouse visa. If I remember correctly, he had contacted the embassy and was told that if applying from the US, they were not eligible to apply for the family permit. Hopefully your plan works out well for you!

[Docterror]

They aren't accepting applications from those who have EU1 applications pending either.

...the bottom line being the inability to demonstrate legal residence!

[Platinum]

This is so painfully yet hysterically ironic that no one but you guys here will appreciate it.

This was my plan to apply for an EEA permit from Dublin:

When I come back into Dublin, they'll give me one of those "one-month-report-to-the-GNIB" stamps. If it's anything like the first two they gave me, the stamp will say "join spouse". I'm going to try to use that stamp to apply from Dublin.

Well, I came back last night, and got the nicest, most sympathetic immigration officer that has ever graced this planet. He was outraged on my behalf that the DoJ and GNIB won't stamp my passport. "But you are legally resident here!" he said. "This is outrageous! You should be free to come and go as you please!" and "But not having a stamp makes it difficult for you when you travel!" I nodded my head and agreed and tried to look angry yet patient.

And then he said, "Well, I'm not going to give you a stamp! It's your right to travel freely without being stamped into the country, and I am taking a stand here for you." He pushed my passport back through the glass at me and motioned me through.

I cannot describe how I felt at this point. Honestly, I don't think my brain knew what I should have been feeling.

I took a deep breath and said, "But you know, the immigration people are sticklers for keeping to the rules, and they always like to have records of travel, especially since my application is being processed. Just for my peace of mind, could you give me one of those one month stamps, like before, please?"

He agreed but said I shouldn't need one, and then said, "But I insist on giving you your full 90-days!"
I thought, oh shit, let it not be a tourist visa! Because the UK Embassy has already said they would not accept a normal tourist visa.

Well, you can all take a deep breath now, because he still gave me one that says "Join spouse" on it. Whew! My husband and I had worried about whether I would have trouble at immigration coming back in, but this wasn't the sort of trouble we had in mind!

Okay, off to try for that EEA family permit, then.

[yankeegirl]

Bloody hell Platinum! Well, thank god you got an understanding immigration officer who gave you a stamp. Let me know how it goes with the family permit application. I have my fingers and toes crossed for you!!!

[Docterror]

Platinum, truly a nice story to hear. Awaiting further news from you regarding the EEAFP

And then he said, "Well, I'm not going to give you a stamp! It's your right to travel freely without being stamped into the country, and I am taking a stand here for you." He pushed my passport back through the glass at me and motioned me through.

Yankeegirl, if I remember correctly I recall telling you the same thing a couple of months back when they stamped your EEAFP. Finally an IO who knows the Immigration rules and also has a heart. Wonder whether we can get them protected as an 'endangered species'?

[yankeegirl]

Wonder whether we can get them protected as an 'endangered species'?

I don't know but I think we should

[thsths]

Well, thank god you got an understanding immigration officer who gave you a stamp. Let me know how it goes with the family permit application. I have my fingers and toes crossed for you!!!

That reminds me of the rubbish "The Twelve Tasks of Asterix". One of them is to get a certain permit, and since these are Herculean tasks, you can already imagine how it goes.

Anyway, congratulations from here, too. Sometimes the right stamp can work magic in a well and truly self centered bureaucracy.