WCATT

[biliboy]

hi guys i need information.my mum came 9 years ago has a stamp4eu. i applied for her WCATT. she never work and never claim welfare.my dad just work 10 hrz a week and hes not on welfare as well i support them as well.now inis looking from mum how you support each other your spouse not making enough money so what i did i attach my bank statments.they reply my mum you came here as a eu dependent not on your son.better send us you husband bank statments and what hes doing.

could you plz help me what should i do is there any other way or i should contact solictor for her.to get her residence.

[dalebutt]

Is your dad an EU citizen? Whats is WCATT?

[biliboy]

Hi yeah he is German national.and that's for stamp 5

[dalebutt]

That is wrong in law, they aren't allowed to ask those questions, what is important is that your dad is working and doing 10 hours a week, you might like to remind of the a judgement of the CJEU and also the case of Kempf, the court ruled that 10 hours a week work is sufficient for someone to be a worker under EU law, and your dad is entitled to top up payment from welfare without affecting your mum's residence status. One important question is, has your dad been working for a continued period of 5 years in ROI?

How do you communicate with the department? email or post? If you are familiar with this requirements I suggest you write a detailed letter pointing them in the right direction, if you need further assistance you are always welcome to post back.

[biliboy]

So what should we do send payslips. Is there any way I can apply any thing for my mom I am Irish naturalise. I cumunicate with post.

[biliboy]

Yeah he is working 5 year now.and also I have my own business.

[dalebutt]

Is stamp 5 equivalent to permanent residence? Have they refused the application or they have just sent the letter demanding explanation? You should write to them to tell them there requirement is not inline with the law, this is nothing to do with you being Irish or not, based on the information you have provided, your mum is eligible for permanent residence on the activities of your dad.

[adelmurray]

sorry to hear that biliboy ,
from past experience with the WCAT Section i can tell you they are ruthless , i wouldn't waste any money on them . your mom should be able to retain her stamp 4 EUfam , for as long as your dad is still working . she should have better applied for naturalisation since she is in the country 9 years .

as for the EU Directive unfortunately you can not rely on that when applying for the Satmp 5 , however you can rely on it when applying for the stamp 4 EUFam .
you can also still fight them to get her stamp 5 using the Irish Law not EU Law , the only thing there is what they have mentioned in their letter , so you can go aehad and fight them but be ready for a rocky and lengthy road from 6 months to 12 months waiting . my advise is just renew her stamp 4 EUfam and apply for her naturalisation immediately , she should get approved in a shorter time than waiting on the outcome of the WCAT Section .
best of Luck

[dalebutt]

This is what your mum should be applying for and not the WCATT. http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/EU ... y%20Rights

It is permanent residency based on your dad's activities in Ireland, applying for stamp4 again is a backward step, proceed with EU3, the application is free of charge, and should be pretty smooth. Good luck.

[biliboy]

Yeah I applied for eu3. For my brother before but they asking lots of document as well backward from 5 years he has that time all the bills on his and my dad name. But still solicitor said 10hrs a week not enough but we will apply and see my brother was working that time as well during the application thank god he got naturalization.

But my mum not working there is no bills on her name any just 1 tv licence may be.

I applied for her stamp 5 to take out his name from mum status so my dad will be free and move anywhere.hes tired to live here he wanted to go back and working there not here.

No they didn't refuse they just want my dad income ,bank statement , German authority letter he is not working there if we provide them may be they will issue but there is no funds in a bank as well may be 2k.and he never used them as well.

[dalebutt]

The lawyer is incompetent simple as that, you can contact welfare department to request evidence of your dad prsi since he has been in Ireland or since 5 years ago, when you have that, the rest of the application will be straight forward. 10hrs is very much sufficient. When that has been approved, you can then proceed to apply your mum's naturalisation.

[biliboy]

Any other option.am just stuck her visa going to finish next month.i should apply naturalization when I saw stamp 5 is very simply no form required just passport.

But when u apply for naturalization u still need financial support she is not working.

[dalebutt]

You need to learn about your rights, if you are not prepared to do that, then I cannot help you, if her stamp4 expires, it doesn't mean she does not have the right to live in Ireland, what does it cost you to request your parent record from the welfare department? Whatever you do good luck. I'm out.

[adelmurray]

my advise to you is to stay under the umbrella of the EU Laws , ie stamp 4EUfam. that should buy you alot of time to proceed with Naturalisation whenever your mom is ready may be she can get a part time job and that should be sufficient for her to get approved within next few months and that should get her and your dad of the mercy of the INIS.
stamp 5 is not really the solution because stamp 5 is not protected by EU laws , anything could change in irish immigration laws in the Future .
i understand that your father wants to go back to germany to work there , once your moms visa is renewed he can go back and that should give her plenty of time to apply for p.t job and apply for naturalisation in her own right s.based on living here legally for over 5 years .

[dalebutt]

You are going about this the very wrong way adelmurray, you logic is wrong, op's should not apply for another stamp4, the moment the dad leaves Ireland, that's the moment her right seizes to exist in Ireland, she has already acquired permanent residency under EU law, she just need INIS to confirm that, I don't know what you are talking about EU3 is under the EU law " umbrella ".

[adelmurray]

You are going about this the very wrong way adelmurray, you logic is wrong, op's should not apply for another stamp4, the moment the dad leaves Ireland, that's the moment her right seizes to exist in Ireland, she has already acquired permanent residency under EU law, she just need INIS to confirm that, I don't know what you are talking about EU3 is under the EU law " umbrella ".

any permission to reside under EU Laws is protected by such , it does not matter what stamp whether 3 or 4 so long as it is EUfam . i don't know if the lady has already got a permament residency or not . what i am trying to say to the op's is to stay on whatever stamp his mother is currently on , that should buy her times to apply for naturalisation . and yes you are right when you said that once the dad leaves the country her rights under EU Laws ceases , however he can be there on a temporarily basis considering that the lady has been living here under EU Laws for the past 9 years , i don't think the restriction or dependency on him applies to her .
most importantly i wish to advise the poster to keep away from stamp 5 , i 've had my experience with them and they are rutheless , they could grant her stamp 5 now and then on the renewal they could come up with some new rules then she would have lost both . and that is what nearly happened to me last year , i was granted stamp 5 a few years after giving up my oridnary Satmp 4 , then on the renewal of my stamp 5 new conditions were introduced and i was told i do not qualify , i had to seek the help of a solicitor to try and restore my stamp 4 back in order for me to continue with my naturalisation process , thankfully once i got my stamp 4 back and i produced it to citizenship section i was granted naturalisation .

[dalebutt]

EU3 is permanent residency, op said dad has worked continuously for 5 years, under EU law dad and mum has attained permanent residency, they need to apply for the confirmation from the INIS, even after that, if the dad leaves and never came back to Ireland, mum will be secured for as long she wishes to stay in Ireland. Stamp4 ceases if dad leaves, I do not know what stamp 5 is and I have not told op to apply for it.

[adelmurray]

Stamp 5 is called Without Condition As to Time , it has been there for years but not many people know about it . it is the equivalent or better than Permanent Residency issued under Irish Immigration Laws . it expires usually when the applicants passport expires , however this stamp was designed as an indefinite leave to remain , so when the person renews her/his passport they should automatically get a new one on their new passport , like in the UK .. but in Ireland you have to apply again and you could be refused on your renewal , these kind of stupid decisions were never challenged in court before to clarify the issue , i was in process to challenge their decision my self , then they came back with giving me back my stamp4 so i can proceed with my naturalisation process as it was at it's final stage so i took it knowing that in a matter of weeks i will be granted citizenship . so the mystery of abuse of power by INIS (some specific staff ) or their incompetence in relation to this stamp remains unclear and unchallenged.

what i'm trying to advise the poster is just to keep away from that stamp , and continue with stamp 4 EUfam or indeed apply for Stamp 3 EUFam . i totally agree with you on the Stamp 3 EUfam , it is a better option if he wishes to proceed with it . just stay clear of the WCAT Stamp 5 it is a trap !!

[biliboy]

What is stamp 2eufam?

[biliboy]

Sorry stamp 3eufam?

Even she get stamp4.she just need in and out of country.thats it

I don't want to involve all the paper work its hard to collect 5years documents

What's the easy way.thanks

[dalebutt]

Stamp 5 is called Without Condition As to Time , it has been there for years but not many people know about it . it is the equivalent or better than Permanent Residency issued under Irish Immigration Laws . it expires usually when the applicants passport expires , however this stamp was designed as an indefinite leave to remain , so when the person renews her/his passport they should automatically get a new one on their new passport , like in the UK .. but in Ireland you have to apply again and you could be refused on your renewal , these kind of stupid decisions were never challenged in court before to clarify the issue , i was in process to challenge their decision my self , then they came back with giving me back my stamp4 so i can proceed with my naturalisation process as it was at it's final stage so i took it knowing that in a matter of weeks i will be granted citizenship . so the mystery of abuse of power by INIS (some specific staff ) or their incompetence in relation to this stamp remains unclear and unchallenged.

what i'm trying to advise the poster is just to keep away from that stamp , and continue with stamp 4 EUfam or indeed apply for Stamp 3 EUFam . i totally agree with you on the Stamp 3 EUfam , it is a better option if he wishes to proceed with it . just stay clear of the WCAT Stamp 5 it is a trap !!

I do not know about the stamp 5, the first time I have heard of it literally, if it was equivalent to indefinite , why should it then be renewed? Ireland as always with dodgy immigration rules.I am not surprised it could happen.

stamp4 might be better considering op does not want to be bothered with getting paper works for EU3, but legally if dad leaves this becomes a different case entirely, although mum may have attained PR I do not know if op would be willing to prove this even if s/he had to.