Controversial HSMP refusal ,Can someone suggest a review?

[ikon1400]

Hi guys,

I got my approval before a week. I applied for my fiance too on same day with same set of docuements.

But it was refused

claimed period : March 2006 - April 2007 , points claimed : 25
Note : October & november 2006 payslips was not submitted since she shifted her company.

Reason for refusal : She cant claim for march & april 2006 since its falling outside 12 month period.hence awarded only 20.(total 70)

My Doubts :
1) I hope we can claim any 12 month out of 15 month period , how can they say its not in 12 month period? Is this a mistake from HO's understanding?

2) They din refuse stating that 12 month claim is not continous(break in company) , but the reason stated was its out of 12 month period. its confusing what was exact reason for refusal?

3) I called the homeoffice & they din connect to HO stating tehy can answer this query & argued telling the claim should be continuous & not with a break.

Important note:
Her application was sent on May 30 , during that time HSMP guidance was 4.0 version which stated that
"We will assess your gross earnings before tax over a total period of up to 12 months out of the 15 months immediately prior to your application.
The earnings can be for any 12 month period out of the last 15 months."

But a new version HSMP guidance 5.0 was released on June 1 , which is stating "We will assess your gross earnings before tax over a total period of up to 12 months out of the 15 months immediately prior to your application. The earnings can be for any consecutive12-month period out of the last 15 months. There can be gaps in employment within this 12 month period"

I guess the HO would have used new version 5.0 & evaluated her application, by which it wil mostly get rejected. But as per her application the valid guidance they should refer is 4.0.

Can someone help me to do a review for her case? inputs are welcome.

Cheers
ikon

[SYH]

march 2006 through feb 2007 is 12 month, thus march and april 2007 is outside the 12 month period.
Also you can have a gap but not a break.
That means you can't claim 8 months before the 2 month gap and then 4 months after the gap, that constitutes a break.
You could claim 8 months before gap and 2 months after the 2 month gap, that is 12 consequetive months, if that helped you but it looks like it didn't. Or you can claim 6 months before gap, 2 month gap and 4 months after gap, if that helps the threshold.

[MyHSMPApplication]

claimed period : March 2006 - April 2007 , points claimed : 25
Note : October & november 2006 payslips was not submitted since she shifted her company.

Reason for refusal : She cant claim for march & april 2006 since its falling outside 12 month period.hence awarded only 20.(total 70)

Hi Ikon,
I guess you claim period is a bit confusing. The guidelines says that you can claim for any consecutive 12 month period in the last 15 month prior to the date of application. Which is absolutely valid.

Mar 06 - Apr07 constitute 14 months not 12 months. Assuming you have applied in the month of June 07 you can claim for any consecutive 12 months from Apr 06 - Jun 07.

By including Mar 06 you have complicated the issues for your self. This I guess is the reason for rejection.

BTB when did you apply? This has a bearing on your case getting approved. Probably your application might have reached HSMP office before June 07 ? Is that correct


Cheers
PG

[RAW]

Important note:
Her application was sent on May 30 , during that time HSMP guidance was 4.0 version which stated that
"We will assess your gross earnings before tax over a total period of up to 12 months out of the 15 months immediately prior to your application.
The earnings can be for any 12 month period out of the last 15 months."

But a new version HSMP guidance 5.0 was released on June 1 , which is stating "We will assess your gross earnings before tax over a total period of up to 12 months out of the 15 months immediately prior to your application. The earnings can be for any consecutive12-month period out of the last 15 months. There can be gaps in employment within this 12 month period"

I guess the HO would have used new version 5.0 & evaluated her application, by which it wil mostly get rejected. But as per her application the valid guidance they should refer is 4.0.

both Guidance notes says "Any 12 months period" not "Any 12 months" and of course period is always continuous . Therefore, as per my interpretation, this case can not be reviewed as it is not fulfilling the basic requirements. You may have different opinion.

[kck9]

We will assess your gross earnings before tax
over a total period of up to 12 months out of
the 15 months immediately prior to your
application. The earnings can be for any
consecutive12-month period out of the last 15
months. There can be gaps in employment
within this 12 month period. However, the
cumulative earnings total will still need to
meet the earnings threshold claimed against.
This applies if you are in salaried or nonsalaried
employment. You should indicate the
start and end date of the period claimed on
the application form. If you claim for a period
exceeding/outside the 12 months out of a 15-
month period prior to the application date, we
will assess the 12 months directly prior to the
application date.

you forgot to see the next point in the guidance notes. if there is any break also they will consider the cumulative earnings.....so its not going to be valid.........moreover u made a big mistake by giving 14 months period.....

[ikon1400]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for spending effort to answer me.

For MyHSMPApplication : You Say that her claim has 14 months coverage..wt i say is there is a 2 month break in between. Hence there are only 12 payslips here. Also the apps reached the HsMP on june 4th, but docs were sent frm india on may 30, where the guidance version 4 was followed.when it reached them they realesed a new version 5.0 which has a differnt claim criteria. hope this wil clarify you.

For Raw: what you are refering is latest guidance 5.0 , but in 4.0 it never said the claim shd be consecutive .any diff in opinion you have?

kck9 I think we can take any 12 month PERIOD from 15 months...so is there a mistake if i take ANY 12 month.?

I still feel if her case is dealt with Guidance version 4.0 it can get approved..but thje prob was they realased a nw version with a new criteria which she cudnt meet. How to tell the HO to use the old guidance as that was the valid one when her application went from our end.?

Stil hoping for best.. My application went with same criteria & got approved in 2 days ..Even i had break of 2 monts & same period i covered.

Shes totally embarassed as mine is done & hers turned down.

Cheers
ikon

[PounceQuick]

No. You can have a break but the break must constitute within that 12 months.

Put it this way, they want you to proof how much you earn in 1 year. Not 1 year + 2 months because you have a break in that 1 year.

I believe the same rule apply regardless any guidance versions. I always understand it as 12 months period, not any 12 months within 15 months period.

[kck9]

No, it has to be Any continuos 12 month period in last 15 months.

If you have a break in that continuos period also they wont consider the previous months, so they might have taken the last 12 month period earnings instead of your 14 month claim

[gordon]

I remember seeing this a few weeks ago and thinking it would be refused (unless the dates given were a typo). The change in the guidance notes was a clarification, as 'a period' is always continuous, by definition. One can have breaks in employment/earnings in that period, but not breaks in the period itself. One has never been able to cherry-pick any 12 months' income out of the last 15 months, so any approval of an application where earnings were claimed over 14 months (with a two month gap in there) just sounds sloppy on the caseworker's part. Rather than request a review, which would be likely to fail, your fiancee is better off submitting a fresh application, following the instructions exactly.

I'm not sure how you would have the 'same set of documents' as your fiancee, but I hope for your sake that you can demonstrate eligibility using a proper 12-month period in the entry clearance process.

AG

[roy_rajat]

I remember seeing this a few weeks ago and thinking it would be refused (unless the dates given were a typo). The change in the guidance notes was a clarification, as 'a period' is always continuous, by definition. One can have breaks in employment/earnings in that period, but not breaks in the period itself. One has never been able to cherry-pick any 12 months' income out of the last 15 months, so any approval of an application where earnings were claimed over 14 months (with a two month gap in there) just sounds sloppy on the caseworker's part. Rather than request a review, which would be likely to fail, your fiancee is better off submitting a fresh application, following the instructions exactly.

I'm not sure how you would have the 'same set of documents' as your fiancee, but I hope for your sake that you can demonstrate eligibility using a proper 12-month period in the entry clearance process.

AG

I fully agree with Gordon, it might be a one off case where the caseworker might have dozed off for a while approving the application. Ikon have you already got an EC based on your 14 month claim 'period'? If not i would bet getting an EC would be tough. As Gordon has stated according to the previous rules....any 12 month 'period' out of 15 does not equates to picking any 12 months in 15, and indeed the new guidance just clarifies this fact.

[jimmy50]

deleted

[SYH]

Sorry to slightly hijack this thread, but I too am concerned about what is meant by continuous. Here is my example (apologies, I have posted this in another thread but realise now that this thread is more relevant):

I intend to choose a 12 month period between 1 June 2006 and 31 May 2007. I worked in Australia from 1/6/06 until 25/8/06, then had a break when moving to the UK, then worked in the UK from 16/10/06 until 31/5/07. I easily qualify in terms of earnings (esp if it's done by pro-rata earnings given I have spent the majority of time in the UK), however does it matter that I had this ~6 week break in between countries and jobs? I mean, it's still within a 12 month period so it's not like I'm cherry picking am I?

Will I be able to claim the earnings pro-rata based on my UK salary?

go back to your thread
it was answered and you only cause confusion by jumping around

[pantaiema]

I fully agrre with this.
1-30 Mar06 should until 1-28 Feb 07 (not April 2007). Do not ever think that they are too naive that they could not see this.

Also, it is defenitely clear that it must be continuous, no break is allowed.

Pantaiema

Mar 06 - Apr07 constitute 14 months not 12 months. Assuming you have applied in the month of June 07 you can claim for any consecutive 12 months from Apr 06 - Jun 07.
Cheers
PG

[pantaiema]

They old guidance also did not say that you could pick up any month U want to during 15 months period. I remembered I have answered also a question of one guy a few months ago. But He still keep with his own interpretation, I do not know what happen with him.

I think must peole got rejected because they use their own interpretation based of what is the most favourabe to them.

Pantaiema

Hi Guys,

kck9 I think we can take any 12 month PERIOD from 15 months...so is there a mistake if i take ANY 12 month.?

I still feel if her case is dealt with Guidance version 4.0 it can get approved..but thje prob was they realased a nw version with a new criteria which she cudnt meet. How to tell the HO to use the old guidance as that was the valid one when her application went from our end.?

ikon

[SYH]

They old guidance also did not say that you could pick up any month U want to during 15 months period. I remembered I have answered also a question of one guy a few months ago. But He still keep with his own interpretation, I do not know what happen with him.

I think must peole got rejected because they use their own interpretation based of what is the most favourabe to them.

Pantaiema

Hi Guys,

kck9 I think we can take any 12 month PERIOD from 15 months...so is there a mistake if i take ANY 12 month.?

I still feel if her case is dealt with Guidance version 4.0 it can get approved..but thje prob was they realased a nw version with a new criteria which she cudnt meet. How to tell the HO to use the old guidance as that was the valid one when her application went from our end.?

ikon

Its a combination of wishful thinking and pure laziness of thought and research. But sticking your head in the sand isn't going to get your application approved.

[mohan76]

Dear Friends,

I am on the verge of completing my documents for the EC application but I am not able to understand what kind of proof we have to submit to prove that my skill is in demand or i can get a job within short time.

I mean when we search a job on the website and find the vacancies suiting our skills then what next ?.........we should take the print out of that ? IF yes then how many job postings we have to show in hard copy ?

I hope you friends understood my query and help me with your reply.

Thanks in advance
mohan

[SYH]

Dear Friends,

I am on the verge of completing my documents for the EC application but I am not able to understand what kind of proof we have to submit to prove that my skill is in demand or i can get a job within short time.

I mean when we search a job on the website and find the vacancies suiting our skills then what next ?.........we should take the print out of that ? IF yes then how many job postings we have to show in hard copy ?

I hope you friends understood my query and help me with your reply.

Thanks in advance
mohan

You have a thread, don't jump around and hijack other people's thread
It just causes confusion

[mohan76]

Dear SYH,
Oh I didn't knew that u would get confuse after reading the query.......

hijack the thread...........

ur great

[PounceQuick]

No he is right. Start a new one or stay on your own thread. Do not hijack other threads. It causes confusion, people really hate it. People do, believe me.

[apeterso925]

I third this suggestion.

Mohan, upon looking at your profile, I see that you posted this exact question (obviously by copy and paste) in 6 different unrelated threads, all within 5 minutes of each other.

For pete's sake! Just start a new thread, it'll be more noticeable anyway. We are all here trying to help each other, mostly just via our own experience and knowledge.

I'm sorry to sound harsh, but making a nuisance of yourself is only going to make it less likely you'll get an answer. People tend to avoid something they find annoying.

Realizing that at this point, you posted this several hours ago, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you realized your mistake...but just to reiterate, when you have a question rather than a response to someone else's question, start a new thread. Please.

No he is right. Start a new one or stay on your own thread. Do not hijack other threads. It causes confusion, people really hate it. People do, believe me.