HSMP - THINK b4 QUITING your Home Jobs - READ my experience)

[LondonBlonde]

But it sounds like the new tier 1 will include all those in HSMP who qualify or renew their leave under the post-Nov-06 rules ('the new rules'), which means that it seems very possible for people with less than a PhD to remain in that category. What proportion of pre-Nov-06 HSMP visaholders will fail to meet the revised pass-mark ? I've read estimates from 20% to 90%, which seems an inordinately and uninformatively wide range.

I thought Byrne's statements were in large part based on the March 2006 paper 'Making migration work for Britain'; while that document suggests that there may be forward changes in minimum salary and point assignments for degrees, has there been official discussion since as to what shape those further changes would take ? Are discussants here otherwise referring to a later position paper ?

I've not seen any statistics that indicate average schooling level, average income, etc for HSMP visaholders. Are these statistics collected and published anywhere ?

AG

I've tried to find the article which references the strict conditions proposed for tier one, but no luck.

I read several months back that GP's would need special skills in order to be considered tier 1. The following article is somewhat helpfull.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politi ... 349812.ece

You might have guessed that all IT will not be considered for tier 1, so it's reasonable to assume that we will all be bumped down to tiers two and three. This artical states that tier three will not be a path to settlement. I've also read somewhere that tier two will need inclusion to a shortage list (again, all IT will fall short here if we use the list today).

I hope that things don't go this way, but it's possible that a large number of current HSMP will not qualify for settlement once the new rules are in place.

LondonBlonde

[gordon]

The Independent article was written re the March 2006 Home Office paper, to which I referred earlier, and it appears that doctors would qualify for tier 1 (although they would not qualify preferentially within that category as they once did, or as selected MBAs do currently).

Indeed the standards for IT workers may change dramatically if IT workers fail to qualify for tier 1 and are no longer eligible for transitional arrangements in tier 2. But it strikes me that this is not inevitable: IT workers can qualify for tier 1 like everyone else, if they meet the education/earnings/age benchmarks. Is there an argument why IT workers should (implicitly) receive uniquely concessionary arrangements as a result of these changes ? Everyone who fails at tier 1 will have to try for tier 2, it appears, not just IT workers. What proportion of current HSMP holders will fail at tier 1 and at tier 2 ? It seems that *that* is the more crucial question.

I'm not sure what statistics the BIA collects about HSMP visaholders, but it seems plausible that when the scheme was initiated, they had particular types of people in mind (perhaps investment bankers, management consultants, or strategists?); the fact that they introduced the MBA provision later would lend credence to this view, if they found that a disproportionate number of HSMP people were not fitting the profile.

I will agree that resetting settlement clocks if people move from tier 1 to tier 2 is a bit harsh; I'm not sure what justification can be offered for that. The tier system is an unabashedly hierarchical tool of social engineering, and people will have their work cut out for them to retain their position on the greasy pole.

AG

[LondonBlonde]

Nothing is certain yet. Only projections and targets have been announced. If Ho targets specialtist phd's and scientists only for tier one as some are saying, then many HSMP will be displaced.

I think this will happen as leaders continue to disown the current HSMP programme and publicly critisize it's relevance.

The problem as I see it is the Brit graduates who can no longer find work in many skilled sectors. Byrne keeps refering to this problem when defending further changes to HSMP.

His obligation is to Brit citizens, not us.

LondonBlonde

[gordon]

No, obviously nothing is confirmed, so it will be interesting to see what develops.

I'd be interested to see citations for those sources that have recommended further stringency in HSMP so that it would target specialist PhDs and scientists only, as you suggest. However, I am not sure I would go so far as to say that the HSMP scheme is being disowned. The March 2006 (Managed migration) paper, the recent Fabian Society paper (Byrne and Kelly, A common place) and recent comments by Byrne in the press, would collectively serve to contradict your assertion, and have instead suggested that the HSMP would serve as the core foundation for tier 1.

If anything, the HSMP is being refined and augmented in its broader relevance, so that it properly refers to those who are 'highly skilled', as distinct from those deemed 'skilled'. There is no point referring to certain migrants as 'highly skilled' if HSMP was merely a favoured and more flexible alternative to the more restrictive work permits programme (designed specifically for 'skilled workers'), but with no real difference in their social added value. Going forward, it would then be contingent on HSMP visaholders to demonstrate that they bring distinctive talents for which there is an unmet need in the UK, and that those talents can be manifest at a level above and beyond even the 'skilled' level. One can debate whether the framework serves such a purpose, but it's quite clear that the old system was too indiscriminate a filter.

AG

[lakhanisa]

Guys ,so is it advisable to go to UK on HSMP without having job offer (IT Industry)..??

And if I go to UK without having job offer, will I be able to get the part time job (odd work) till I get a job in IT? If yes, will I be able to earn enough for myself? And if I do part time job, will I get time to search for the Job?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers.

[SYH]

You can do anyjob you want on hsmp
you can go to uk without job, whether its advisable is debatable but it would be hard to find a job outside of the UK so i dont think you have much of a choice

[LankanFunkin]

Guys ,so is it advisable to go to UK on HSMP without having job offer (IT Industry)..??

And if I go to UK without having job offer, will I be able to get the part time job (odd work) till I get a job in IT? If yes, will I be able to earn enough for myself? And if I do part time job, will I get time to search for the Job?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers.

First off - before you actually move, can you afford to do a trip out to the UK to do some job searching? This might even work out being a financial saving on the long run (where Air fair + temporary accommodation < loss paying rent while not earning) if the trip is a success. Be sure to contact a bunch of recruiters - they will be your spokes person even after you come back from the trip, and could at least get some companies interested in talking to you.

As for temp work - browse around the listings on the gumtree.com job section. You might be able to get an idea of what you could earn. Time to search for a proper IT job of course depends on what kind of part time work you take up.

Hope that helps...

[LankanFunkin]

The March 2006 (Managed migration) paper, the recent Fabian Society paper (Byrne and Kelly, A common place) and recent comments by Byrne in the press, would collectively serve to contradict your assertion, and have instead suggested that the HSMP would serve as the core foundation for tier 1.

Agreed.

[LondonBlonde]

LankanFunkin, will you still be singing Byrne's praises if you don't make the cut to the new tier one?

Just curious,

LondonBlonde

[apeterso925]

First off - before you actually move, can you afford to do a trip out to the UK to do some job searching? This might even work out being a financial saving on the long run (where Air fair + temporary accommodation < loss paying rent while not earning) if the trip is a success. Be sure to contact a bunch of recruiters - they will be your spokes person even after you come back from the trip, and could at least get some companies interested in talking to you.

As for temp work - browse around the listings on the gumtree.com job section. You might be able to get an idea of what you could earn. Time to search for a proper IT job of course depends on what kind of part time work you take up.

Hope that helps...

Realizing that many people do just this and that it worked for them, I'm opting (pending EC) to just pack up here and go.

While LankanFunkin makes a good point that in some cases the expense of an initial visit is outweighed by the fact that you save yourself from having to rent with no income, I do wonder about its true feasibility given employer expectations.

Example: I go on a 3 week visit (and use all of my accrued vacation from my current employer) and am interviewing for positions. I cannot start any of these positions for at least a month from the interview because I still need to give my current employer notice, rent my condo, etc. So when the UK employer also interviews someone else who can start in 2 weeks or less, I am at a disadvantage.

Whereas if I have already closed shop in the US and am living in the UK, I'm at a slight *advantage* over many of my fellow applicants, because I can start immediately. Additionally, I will have saved myself the expense of an extra flight, a hotel and (in my case at least) will have been paid by my US employer for the 3 weeks' vacation I accrued but did not use.

Net net, I decided that, in my case at least, it makes more sense, both financially and logistically, to take one flight and start from scratch when I get there.

And while I'm quite confident I'll find long-term employment before I start to run out of money, there's always grunt work in the interim

Lol, I may be highly-skilled, but perhaps my ego will have to take a backseat for a bit!

[LankanFunkin]

Thats why I said *might*

This might even work out being a financial saving on the long run (where Air fair + temporary accommodation < loss paying rent while not earning) if the trip is a success.

apeterso925, when do you plan on making the big move?

[apeterso925]

Lol, and that's why I said it might too I think the reality is, everyone has to weigh their own circumstances and decide which works for them.

In the event I do, in fact, get through EC, I'll land at glorious Heathrow on August 10th

But in the interest of not jinxing EC, it's a refundable ticket and I'm still calling the 10th a maybe I should have all my ducks in a row and the EC application on its way by Monday or Tuesday next week (with a request to post-date my visa to begin on the 10th).

Thats why I said *might*

This might even work out being a financial saving on the long run (where Air fair + temporary accommodation < loss paying rent while not earning) if the trip is a success.

apeterso925, when do you plan on making the big move?

[LankanFunkin]

LankanFunkin, will you still be singing Byrne's praises if you don't make the cut to the new tier one?

Just curious,

LondonBlonde

No, I'd just be bitter old sod and try and harsh someone else's mellow on an internet forum instead

[LankanFunkin]

Well best of luck apeterso925. PM me if you are in finance or life sciences. I might be able to refer you to my recruiters in London.

[LondonBlonde]

LankanFunkin, will you still be singing Byrne's praises if you don't make the cut to the new tier one?

Just curious,

LondonBlonde

No, I'd just be bitter old sod and try and harsh someone else's mellow on an internet forum instead

Nice...

Either way, we all win.

LondonBlonde

[ball1333]

I cannot start any of these positions for at least a month from the interview because I still need to give my current employer notice, rent my condo, etc. So when the UK employer also interviews someone else who can start in 2 weeks or less, I am at a disadvantage.

Hi Amy,
Just saying....
1) It can make a better impression if you are currently employed while conducting a job search - you may be perceived to have more value when you are presently adding value to another organization
2) Your judgment about whether an offer is suitable can be made without the influence of *need* for a job (i.e., desperation)
2) In the US it is standard to give your employer 2 weeks notice before quitting. In the UK it is standard to give your employer 4 weeks notice before quitting. Thus you are actually on equal footing with most employed UK-based candidates if you need a month before starting.

[apeterso925]

I had forgotten that the UK uses a bigger notice period when changing jobs, so that's a good point.

Point 1) is certainly true to some extent, but again, I don't think it's uniformly true (in the same way that it certainly isn't uniformly true that my being able to start immediately will be viewed positively).

Point 2) could happen But (and I can only speak for my own motivation on this one), my field is relatively broad and I'm not incredibly picky as far as specifics...my personal criteria for a suitable job translate pretty easily to several subindustries. Lol, hopefully I won't be retracting that statement in a few months

Again, I think (more and more as this thread goes on), there is no right or wrong way to do this - it's a combination of each of our personal circumstances and our willingness (or lack thereof) to freak ourselves out with stress

Hi Amy,
Just saying....
1) It can make a better impression if you are currently employed while conducting a job search - you may be perceived to have more value when you are presently adding value to another organization
2) Your judgment about whether an offer is suitable can be made without the influence of *need* for a job (i.e., desperation)
2) In the US it is standard to give your employer 2 weeks notice before quitting. In the UK it is standard to give your employer 4 weeks notice before quitting. Thus you are actually on equal footing with most employed UK-based candidates if you need a month before starting.

[ball1333]

There are definitely pros and cons to each approach - and not only general pros and cons but situation-specific pros and cons

[apeterso925]

Definitely But your budget idea was a great one - that was kind of the clincher for me. I can now see that it's feasible to just up and go, because I can see how far I stretch my precious savings.

So I'd advise anyone weighing the options to figure out your expected monthly expenses and see how long you can live on what you have...and if you think you can do that without losing your mind!

Yet another of my own pros/cons that might be relevant to others - I just *want* to do it this way. It just feels easier for me...this whole process is so stressful, I think you just have to do what seems sensible to you.

There are definitely pros and cons to each approach - and not only general pros and cons but situation-specific pros and cons

[MUGHAL]

i am IT consultant i wish i would have not applied for the HSMP for UK as they are dealing with me breaking promises already made with me. i was already very anxious about my job career but furthermore, they are now saying it would be necessary to go through new creteria as i applied under my experience and earning in the beginning so how i can show my accademic qualification and less age ......if i did not take these factores for HSMP application. i am so sad so that i am now niether for my home country and nor for UK....... anyway now only one hope is from court's justice.