Please help. My wife's visa was refused!

[Waqas17]

Hi,

We have just learnt that my wife's visa has been refused. I, the sponsor, am exempt from the financial requirements as i earn Carer's Allowance, plus i have savings of £15000 for 6 months at the date of application. All bank statements, letter that it was a gift had been submitted. On top of this i mentioned my father gives me money as and when i need it.

The decision was basically:

"You are exempt as you are in receipt of Carers Allowance, therefore you have to adequately maintain yourselves, which equates to £112.50 per week for a couple. You say your sponsor receives money from his Father, but third party support is not allowed. Therefore your total income is £59.75 from the Carers Allowance"

I am really distressed as anyone would be who has been waiting for months to find out they have been rejected. I'm even more upset as they did not take into account my £15k savings? It states in Annex 1.7a 6.(5) that cash savings can be relied upon. I even did the following workings out on the application form:

15000/130weeks= £115.38
Carers allowance= £59.75
Total income is £175.13 which exceeds the £112.50 income support level.

Please can you help me? Should i appeal orally or by papers? I don't see the point of doing it orally as i will be submitting exactly the same info on my savings. 2 bank statements showing the original £15k transaction, letter stating it was a gift and a 6 month personal bank statement.

Why did they do this? How long will it take

[Amber]

Oral appeal. You've calculated correctly. 3rd party support is not accepted. They must have missed the savings. It may take some time for an appeal I'm afraid. If this is an out-of Country appeal, appeal within 28 days of decision. I'll pull the case you need out for you sometime today.

[Waqas17]

Oral appeal. You've calculated correctly. 3rd party support is not accepted. They must have missed the savings. It may take some time for an appeal I'm afraid. If this is an out-of Country appeal, appeal within 28 days of decision. I'll pull the case you need out for you sometime today.

Thanks for your reply. I know this may seem OTT but it feels like the end of the world for me. I have so many questions so sorry if it seems like im asking too much or questioning you, i just want to find out my options. I'm currently in Pakistan and was hoping to come back to the UK with my wife. I guess i'll have to leave her yet again.

1) Why orally? Wouldnt that take longer? I thought by papers would be ok as i would only be submitting the same documents (evidence of savings). I would've thought that it would be crystal clear i exceed the requirements without having to defend or argue?
2) we have an iaft-2 form which was enclosed, and yes 28 days is given. In a case like mine, would the appeals board first send it to the visa centre for the ECM to look at. Surely once he realises the mistake he will approve it before it gets further? If this is true, then how long would this take?
3) why did they miss my savings? I wrote it out crystal clear on the application form and showed workings including my carers allowance to give a total? I'm thinking they refused it just because i said i get third party support? Thats entrapment and really not the British Spirit
4) should i get a lawyer? My thoughts are no, because they have just missed my savings so should 't be hard to overturn?

Many thanks for your help. I am eagerly awaiting yours, and anyone else's advice.

[Amber]

Yes once the appeal is lodged an ECM in Islamabad will look at the decision again. Clearly sate the case of Jahangara Begum & others (maintenance:savings) [2011] UKUT 246 which dictates how savings should be converted to tariff income as per your calculation. Also ask them to consider the savings in addition to the CA which exceeds the Income Support Applicable amount. I assume you pay no rent?

An oral appeal is better as the paper appeal is just heard in your absence - no chance to have your 'say'. ECOs in Pakistan have around 11 minutes to make a decision so things are often missed/errors are frequent.

[Waqas17]

Yes once the appeal is lodged an ECM in Islamabad will look at the decision again. Clearly sate the case of Jahangara Begum & others (maintenance:savings) [2011] UKUT 246 which dictates how savings should be converted to tariff income as per your calculation. Also ask them to consider the savings in addition to the CA which exceeds the Income Support Applicable amount. I assume you pay no rent?

An oral appeal is better as the paper appeal is just heard in your absence - no chance to have your 'say'. ECOs in Pakistan have around 11 minutes to make a decision so things are often missed/errors are frequent.

Yes i pay no rent. And i think they accepted my CA of £59.75 a week as this is the amount they said i get weekly.

Many thanks for the case. The only issue now i have is orally or papers. I know you have already stated several times to do it orally, but my point is if i mention the above case and tell them they missed my savings, why would i need to have my say in person? Wouldn't papers that be enough as its clear in black and white and not arguable? Also isn't doing it by papers quicker than orally? This is just a guess as we won't have to wait for a hearing?

Do you know roughly how long from when i submit the appeal, it will get seen by an ECM? I am pretty sure the ECM will change the original decision? If he does i am assuming there is no need for a hearing?

Sorry for all the basic questions, i never thought i'd may need to know all of this Thanks again for your help.

[Amber]

ECM reconsideration can be a few weeks to several months.

[Waqas17]

ECM reconsideration can be a few weeks to several months.

Thanks for all your help. Hopefully we will appeal in a few days, online, as i've heard that is the quickest.

I'm still unsure about doing it orally or by papers? Is the length of time different for each option? I asumed by papers would be quicker as i would't have to wait for a hearing date?

[Waqas17]

Why would i need to argue my case, if its just a case of them accepting my savings? Wouldn't paper be better/quicker?

Not trying to say i know better, just trying to understand

[Amber]

I have given my opinion. Not much more I can say.

[Waqas17]

Thanks, i do value your opinion and will hopefully use your help. Just trying to understand everything a bit better.

I've emailed the visa office and asked them to reconsider. And in the meantime i think i'll lodge an appeal too, just unsure if i should do orally or by papers. I don't think i need to have my say as they've simply missed out my savings?

Sorry, i'm just trying to do this the fastes way as my life is on hold until she comes back with me.

[Amber]

With appeals there is no fast way. The ECM will not review the case until you've submitted an appeal. Therefore, you ought to submit it ASAP. If you choose a paper hearing, you can change it to oral if you wish. It wouldn't make it any faster though.

[Waqas17]

Ok so i have submitted and paid for an appeal online. I have also emailed the visa office to reconsider.

I now need to send the documents relating to savings. Can i post them scanned/photocopies of bank statements?

Amber: many thanks for helping me with the grounds of appeal

[Amber]

Send originals by recorded delivery.

[abdulraheem123]

I'm thinking they refused it just because i said i get third party support? Thats entrapment and really not the British Spirit

hi waqas, there was another post a few days ago on here where someone was refused just on the basis of him ticking the box which asks about third party support, even though you receive money from your dad you should not have mentioned that to them, as you said its entrapment.

you need to find out that if you appeal then will there look at this point again and still refuse you?

[abdulraheem123]

or in the appeal you can tell them you don't receive the third party support any more, but i don't know whether that will help your case

[Waqas17]

Thanks for your reply.

I'm not sure I think it would be very unfair if no one was allowed third party support. There are millions of british Dads that help their sons. That shouldn't even be classed as third party.

I think as long as i meet the requirements excluding third party support they should allow me. But i am not sure. Can anyone confirm if they can reject an application on financial grounds if they meet the requirements but get third party support?

[Waqas17]

On my appeal i argued that i have savings that havent been taken into account. Can someone please tell me if it will be rejected again due to third party support, even though i meet the requirements?

[Waqas17]

Please can someone advise. Will they reject me again?

[Waqas17]

This has been a nightmare. I rang the first tier board a few days ago who said i have loads of time to submit documents. Rang today and they said they already sent my appeal without supporting documents!! They advised me to email the visa.enquiries islamabad email directly with my supporting documents, which i have done now.

Can someone suggest whether the visa office will accept the documents?

[SAMISPOUSAL]

Send originals by recorded delivery.

yes I agree with AMBER

SEND ORIGINALS of the bank things..
we submitted a couple of photocopies of Bank things (letter) and they phoned me to say they want originals so I had to get the bank to COURIER to them straightaway.

Samispousal
Well settled British man sponsoring Indian wife
submitted spouse application in PUNE to be processed in MUMBAI on 18 December 2013
its been about 35 working days we are still waiting ....suspense is ....AAAAggghhh

[Mas121]

Hi,

We have just learnt that my wife's visa has been refused. I, the sponsor, am exempt from the financial requirements as i earn Carer's Allowance, plus i have savings of £15000 for 6 months at the date of application. All bank statements, letter that it was a gift had been submitted. On top of this i mentioned my father gives me money as and when i need it.

I will be applying using cash savings too I have
Savings of 38k so I will only need to earn 10k a year
Salary the reason why they never took your savings
Into account is because it's below 16k am pretty
Sure your salary needs to be above 16k

The decision was basically:

"You are exempt as you are in receipt of Carers Allowance, therefore you have to adequately maintain yourselves, which equates to £112.50 per week for a couple. You say your sponsor receives money from his Father, but third party support is not allowed. Therefore your total income is £59.75 from the Carers Allowance"

I am really distressed as anyone would be who has been waiting for months to find out they have been rejected. I'm even more upset as they did not take into account my £15k savings? It states in Annex 1.7a 6.(5) that cash savings can be relied upon. I even did the following workings out on the application form:

15000/130weeks= £115.38
Carers allowance= £59.75
Total income is £175.13 which exceeds the £112.50 income support level.

Please can you help me? Should i appeal orally or by papers? I don't see the point of doing it orally as i will be submitting exactly the same info on my savings. 2 bank statements showing the original £15k transaction, letter stating it was a gift and a 6 month personal bank statement.

Why did they do this? How long will it take