Elderly Dependent Visa Refused - What are the options?

[WBP]

Elderly dependent visa for my mother is refused on the basis that the expenses(£900 a Month) are affordable for her son(me). The care required is available in india etc.

My case:
Mother 67 years old, father passed away recently after 45 years of marriage.
Mother has medical conditions: Spondylitis, Osteoarthritis( Total knee replacement done on one knee), due to difference in the limb length unable to walk short distance, her mobility is affected. She has diabetes and that requires her to be mobile. She lives of 2nd floor with no lifts. Father was her main support system. She has night scares, anxiety and unable to sleep through the night alone. She keeps TV on to see the night through which affects her diabetic condition.

Sister lives in a country that doesn't allow visitor for than 3 months max also due to her health condition she is unable to take a good care of my mother. She can give that in writing also.

There are relatives and friends in india but no one is keen to extend support. They are saying to take you mother with you. They provided a testimonial that they cannot provide the support due to their own responsibilities.

My mother who is part of life and family and cannot be left in lurch with private carers (sometimes from slums, also irregular, arrogant, not trustworthy) and therefore me visiting my mother to look after her well-being is naturally a part of the care she needs. The comfort she needs is the presence of her own family, grandchildren arround her which is why we have to visit her at least twice a year if she has to stay alone there.(I have been regularly visiting my mother with family each year or bringing her here, twice so far). Therefore, the total expense of care she need must include my travel which the ECO did accept but it seems he thought it is for year and not month. I had provided how much I earn per month and how much I save. It is clearly evident that this expense (£900 a month)is definitely not affordable. Still on that basis he has refused the visa.

Any thoughts? Merits in appealing?

[WBP]

And my immigration status is I am a british citizen

[MPH80]

Please post the exact text of the refusal.

You are hopefully aware that this is one of the toughest visas to get and the ancedotal evidence here suggests only one has been granted since it was introduced (although I think I've been parroting that for about a year - so I'd be surprised if that's still true).

Because you've now applied - you've effectively ruled out any visitor visas - so you will probably have to appeal if you've any hope of seeing your mother in this country any time soon. However, you should also be prepared for that appeal to fail. The rules say that you have to prove that the care required isn't available in the country or is unaffordable - it doesn't say that you can prove it exists, but that you prefer not to use it, so if it is available (which you've indicated it is) - you're going to have to prove you can afford it.

But then you've got to prove you can afford to keep your mother here in the UK without recourse to public funds - where the starting value is something like £120 per week to support someone here ... so you're going to need to show you've got about £400-500 spare a month already and that's before you'll need to pay for any additional care here. So I can understand how the ECO might jump to the conclusion you can afford to travel to look after her if you told them it was £900 a month.

M.

[WBP]

Thanks so much for your reply.

The DWP guidelines, for a single person, the amount required is £165.25 a week. so the (£165.25 * 52/12 = £716 a month) plus £65 a month premium for private medical cover. Total £784 which < £900. Now upto £795 I can afford but not £900.

The care she needs in india will be provided in the UK too but will be provided by carers who are family members(me and my wife without any charge so that is £0)

Obviously if the Home Office lawyer raises more expenses that she will need to stay in UK, then I don't stand a chance.

[MPH80]

The key fact you've missed is that the private medical insurance @£65 a month will almost certainly not cover her existing conditions.

It's also worth stating that if you're saying 'hey - I can afford this as it's £100 less than the amount of travel' - it's screaming out to me to say that one small misstep might send you spiralling into debt. Affordable to me would be a comfortable buffer - and 10% doesn't seem like it to me. But hey - I won't be the appeal judge.

You still need to post the full text of the refusal and explain why the care isn't affordable in India.

[WBP]

Thanks for your reply. Really appreciate it.

The reason for refusal is that the ECO is not satisfied with the evidences that the care available currently cannot continue in india and is not affordable there even considering all the expenses including the travel costs for visits. Also not satisfied when I state that there are no one in india that she can turn to for support. The ECO has conveniently ignored the testimonial provided from friend, which was one of the required supporting document.

I have consulted one of the leading private medical provider explaining her current conditions and this is a quote I have received.

But you may be correct, how long these calculations will stand in the court to prove the point that the ECO has made an error in deciding the costs there, are affordable, is what I am not confident about.

I agree your point where given the fact that I might have a very small buffer and any mistake can put me into debt, however, it could also be possible that I may get pay rise, which is likely than me making silly mistakes knowing I have small buffer!

[WBP]

I provide the ECO, complete break-up of every expense my mother needs plus - insurance in india, doctor fees, travel, carer costs, costs associated with other arrangements when carers won't turn up or are call-in sick, cost of my visits (as she calls me every time for anything she needs there or have to arrange anything for her such as when the carers won't turn up, have to find new carer also speaking to doctors, understanding her test reports etc and much more...) to india, possible loss of pay here in UK when I have to travel unexpectedly in her sickness or emergencies.

All these costs there turns out more than what I will have to spend on her in UK.

[MPH80]

So you're saying there are no firms you can pay there who can arrange carers for you?

I, personally, think you're reaching.

It's a good attempt - I'll give you - but I believe you should be prepared to fail in appeal. You might get lucky - but you're going to have a hard time.

[WBP]

Thanks MPH80.

Your comments filled me with confidence to prepare for a hard battle. Of course, I will be ready for the bad news.

[Wanderer]

Think you private health care premiums are way off beam, have a look here;

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/insura ... -insurance

The lowest for a healthy 70-yo is 2/3k a year, with your mother having pre-existing conditions I'd budget double that at least.

[WBP]

thanks for looking up the quotes. I was scared to see these prices when I began my search fo her private medical cover but then quickly decided to do what I did when I was looking for my car insurance on these comparison web sites.

I am now with a leading car insurance for almost half of the lowest quote on this web site, I called them. Did exactly the same for the private medical cover.

A paracetamol @69p from sainsbury's is exactly the same as the 5 times expensive branded one - how many people bother.

thanks anyway.

[SSHK]

Hi Guys
Just came across this thread and my Mum's visa got rejected
Under same circumstances they giving reason that better care can be available in India and it can be affordable. The only negative factor was to answer question that yes care is available and we can afford it but that was entered in light to support our previous statement mentioning we have part time Nurse/ maid who is currently looking after her and thats not permanent she need proper care and family support.

Can you please tell me did you filed the appeal and what are the main points you mentioned or highlighted to make your case stronger

Many Thanks

[Amber]

There is that new health insurance advertised on TV for those with pre-existing conditions, it's a fixed rate. Diabetes is one that usually puts a 50-75% addition on premiums. What Country is your Mother native?

Also, show me how you work out £165.25 a week?

[Majjid]

My mother's appeal is also rejected. In our case, my sister(also British) is living in Pakistan and providing care to my mother. Judge seemed nice on the face but sent horrible decision after three weeks. Never expected this from him!

I tried to cover both aspect, care + human rights. But he rejected on both grounds.

Major reasoning

1- Pakistan has huge population so there will be some degree of care available for elderly.
2- Arrange nurses as I have enough savings to support.

I can try upper tribunal or may be worth considering visiting visa route again as I have two family events where my mother should be present, I can further ensure that she returns Pakistan after 6 months, but getting a visiting visa seems big NO NO ...

Anything, I can do?

[Amber]

Yes as you've show an intention to settle here, vist visa is going to be a no, likely.

[Majjid]

just thinking about word likely - If there is strong reason for my mother to be present here, will visiting still be rejected?

It looks and feels so grim, do I have any right in this case to practice and bring my mother here for longer or shorter term at all?

I'm just waiting, seeing and probably praying. God please give Theresa May some heart and feelings...

[MPH80]

just thinking about word likely - If there is strong reason for my mother to be present here, will visiting still be rejected?

In the short term? Quite probably - they'd be suspicious you were simply 'making up' the good reason.

In the longer term (2-5 years down the line)? Perhaps less so - particularly if you can show she's re-grown the roots in the home country which obviously weren't there when she applied.

[Majjid]

It sounds bit bleak but there must be something I can do.

Going forward to 2nd tribunal may be is just waste of time.

I know, there is no definite answer on this, but something worth of trying...

[MPH80]

I know this will sound harsh - but these are the choices we make when crossing borders.

Your mother is in another country. Given UKBA's stance - you have to make the choice as to whether your life in the UK is more important or being with her is more important. The UK has not, in recent memory, had completely free chain migration (although - admittedly - your mother might well have qualified under the old rules).

You are, of course, free to pursue an appeal as far as you wish providing they grant leave to do so.

The problem is simple - you've announced to the government your intention to have your mother settle in the UK and how she absolutely must be there because there's no one to look after her. Now you're saying 'ok - well - I want her to come and visit' - you can understand why the authorities will not look favourably on that application.

I have a lot of sympathy. My wife's mother is far away and we've carefully weighed up where we wish to live and her potential support network in the case of illness. We know that the chances of bringing her to the UK are almost 0 and so that has to factor into our life choices. We've also done the same with my parents - although they are in the UK - but that factors into our consideration if we decided to move again. We've been carefully applying for increasing visitor visa lengths for my wife's mother and our plans may change if that support network changes.

[Wanderer]

It sounds bit bleak but there must be something I can do.

Going forward to 2nd tribunal may be is just waste of time.

I know, there is no definite answer on this, but something worth of trying...

Surinder Singh is still an option but requires major uprooting for a significant period to another EU state, and no guarantee that door wont be fastened firmly shut by then.

Depends on how much you want it to happen and how risk-averse you are. Remember UK has no history of chain migration so this one is a tough one and will get tougher.

[WBP]

As I started this original post I want to update with the outcome of my leagal battle with the HO. It was hard, very hard, but in the end I won! That's why the victory is so pleasing. HO went to Upper Tribunal but were refused the persmission to appeal. In the end they gave up in November 2014. My mother is with me now. I didn't use any of the expense/affordability arguments which I'd mentioned earlier in my posts. Just arranged her private medical cover for £250 a month with the option of unlimited consultations and scans/tests. £65 was fairly basic which I found later on when digged deep into the terms and conditions. so yes MPH80 and Wandere you both were right about the private medical quote and I was wrong. Thanks.

[Navi123]

Hi Friend,

Congraj on ur mothers visa,,i'm planning to apply for my mothers dependent visa (widowed, Father passed away recently) sisters are married and im in the uk.
ideally would like some details on what docs u have provided both from UK & from India and the arguments u have presented in court and on application form.

regards
Nav

[CR001]

Hi Friend,

Congraj on ur mothers visa,,i'm planning to apply for my mothers dependent visa (widowed, Father passed away recently) sisters are married and im in the uk.
ideally would like some details on what docs u have provided both from UK & from India and the arguments u have presented in court and on application form.

regards
Nav

Please think carefully and do a lot of research on the forum before you make this application, particularly if your mother has family in India. It is very difficult, virtually impossible to get and the OP was very fortunate to win the appeal but is most likely one of the very few isolated cases.

There have only been between 3 and 6 approvals in this category since July 2012 that we know of and if you apply, get refused, lose appeal, it will close the door on any future visitor visa applications for your mother.

This is the basics of what the criteria are :

https://www.gov.uk/join-family-in-uk/eligibility

Coming to be cared for - you’re an adult dependent relative

You must be dependent on a parent, grandchild, brother, sister, son or daughter of someone living permanently in the UK.

You must prove that:

you need long-term care to do everyday personal and household tasks
the care you need is not available or affordable in the country you live in
the person you’ll be joining in the UK will be able to support, accommodate and care for you without claiming public funds for at least 5 years
you’re 18 or over

[Navi123]

Hi

Fully appreciate ur concern, m hoping that new government may change these rules.

regards

[CR001]

Highly unlikely that this will change or become easier.

You could look at the Surinder Singh route but this would mean 'moving the centre of your life' to an EU country in order to bring your mother as an EU Family member and remaining in the EU state for roughly 12 months before returning to the UK under the EU Directive.