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fair point and you are spot on about future in ireland prospects and the hypocritical views of th irish. i for one would rather see these irish people come home, seen that the economy need more workers, these people are needed here.mktsoi wrote:actually, since your an american. one more thing i would like to mention. ireland is not economically independent from it's big brother(S). may be they getting less money from the british now. but ireland getting alots of money from the us firms. so they not economically independent, plus they got lots of grant from EU. the irish governement are suckers. they sucking up from the american government now. i tell you what. the IRS in states just turning a blind eyes about the us firms in ireland. if the IRS wants their money back, most of the us firms might pull out. good time will be over for ireland certainly, plus the EU doesnt want to hand out as much as used to be, soooo the economy is going to dive at some stage here.BigAppleWoodenShoe wrote:Euh, no, I disagree with the minister. Did you read my message?the irish doesnt want to speak it themself. you think it is good to impose it in the new immigrants?
you married to a dutch man, by law, your legal in this country, and they cant even give you a legal status quickly? dont you even feel the american deport all the illegal irish instead? they are over there illegaly working and bagging this and that, saying that the american government should make them legal or even give them american citizenship straight away. and your are legal here by the EU law, and they cant even do something? how nice how nice, we all love ireland dont we:)))))))))))))))
uuuuuuuuuuu listen. i will answer the Microlab in this reply as well. not trying to be rude here. if you have been throught what i have been throught. you will understand what i am trying to say.walrusgumble wrote:fair point and you are spot on about future in ireland prospects and the hypocritical views of th irish. i for one would rather see these irish people come home, seen that the economy need more workers, these people are needed here.mktsoi wrote:actually, since your an american. one more thing i would like to mention. ireland is not economically independent from it's big brother(S). may be they getting less money from the british now. but ireland getting alots of money from the us firms. so they not economically independent, plus they got lots of grant from EU. the irish governement are suckers. they sucking up from the american government now. i tell you what. the IRS in states just turning a blind eyes about the us firms in ireland. if the IRS wants their money back, most of the us firms might pull out. good time will be over for ireland certainly, plus the EU doesnt want to hand out as much as used to be, soooo the economy is going to dive at some stage here.BigAppleWoodenShoe wrote:Euh, no, I disagree with the minister. Did you read my message?the irish doesnt want to speak it themself. you think it is good to impose it in the new immigrants?
you married to a dutch man, by law, your legal in this country, and they cant even give you a legal status quickly? dont you even feel the american deport all the illegal irish instead? they are over there illegaly working and bagging this and that, saying that the american government should make them legal or even give them american citizenship straight away. and your are legal here by the EU law, and they cant even do something? how nice how nice, we all love ireland dont we:)))))))))))))))
i am sure you have noticed though, the irish citizen is also affected by this stupid law. like yourselves, there is no statutory grounds for irish people to have their non eea spouse to unite with them as a family unit in this country, unless the eu1 form application is successful or they had met their spouse in another eu state were that spouse was legally resident and the irish citizen comes back to ireland (using his free movemnet rights) the only group of people that are entitled to such family reunification in this country are refugees (and rightly so) and an eu couple. Not look weird to ye, an irish citizen not having the absolute right to have their american, australian, african etc spouse with them on the basis of their marriage?
but ya must think it has been all taking (ok EU grants fair enough) but its not like all these US firms not get anything out of this deal. in the early 1990's they got a young and highly qualified group in the irish and non irish work force and of course a very generous taxation package in 12.5% corporation tax and several low tax treaties. something the eu want to get rid of, and to do so would feck up this country. it was these factors that made the celtic economy roar and its these factors that will help the likes of poland and lativa etc to get their economies going in the next tens years and more luck to them. it was american companies who decided to come here in the early 1990's. it is just business not this country's fault if they (USA) rather fork out lower taxes and wages here than with their own people. the days of eu grants will soon come to an end, as countires like poland, lativa etc wil lbe given more attention, and good luck to them. so basically NO, economically ireland are not sucking up to the most powerful economy nation in the world. for the people who have not come from war thorn countries or countries full of corruption, what has your governments done for you, why are ye here? (making a point , not attacking) it just took the irish longer, you all seem to forget that this country is only about 90 years old or 50 if you count the year when it offically left the british commonwealth. how many modern countries that have left the common wealth done so well as this country? of course with the help of migrants. think the td's are still stupid ?(of course within reason)
you say when (and at some time they will) all these business do move on to other pastures, the good times willbe gone. but that is why there are strict immigration laws in this country. this country needs workers not holiday makers, however, it is of the uptmost importance that immigrants are looked after and treated and rewarded highly. look at the irish born child applications 2005 and 2007, these won't be renewed unless each applicant is economically viable or making themselves so.
the problems in ireland is that whilst it is the uptmost importance to look after our own interests and their people, they are going around it the wrong way and threating people who are in genuine marriages to eu citizens like dirt. discriminating against people from visa required countries and people from visa free countires. (not one country in the world doesnt look out forthemselves, if ye think joining the eu was for the sake of joining a gang, you are very naive, ak yourself when turkey want to join?)
Oooolaahlaah.We all have to feel sorry for you now that you took 1 year holiday and that takes 5 months to sort out your work permit.will answer the Microlab in this reply as well. not trying to be rude here. if you have been throught what i have been throught. you will understand what i am trying to say.
In fact the British Embassy is under the "supervision" of the Foreign & Commonwealth Office.runie80 wrote:I suggest Irish Immigration Minister to learn different between "Embassy" and "Home Office".
dosent matter how anyone paints it these are two seperate entities.one working under the supervision of the other.
Only the United Kingdom has the right to say who is and is not a British citizen. As a person born in Belfast in 1951, there is absolutely no ambiguity about the British citizenship of President McAleese. She is of course more than welcome to visit the British Embassy in Dublin to renounce it, if she sees fit.walrusgumble wrote: british citizen? you ignorant f*(k. SHe is an irish citizen (she never took up the british passport, entitled from birth, dont go whinging cause ye dont have it. maybe ye should understand this countries history before forking out a bit of money and waiting 5 years before getting yours. i would love if you had the balls to say that in a nationalist area in northern ireland. you wanna check out was articles 2 and 3 of the constitution and section 6 of inc act 1956-2004 before ya come out with that guff.so no she is not legally or politically a british citizen or nor was she ever.
Irish passport holders do not need a visa for visiting the HKSAR:limey wrote: Also, an Irish person needs a visa to visit Hong Kong now. I don't know what any previous rules were. A British citizen does not need a visa to visit Hong Kong but does to visit the Chinese mainland. So I'm sure a few Irish people would exploit any British links if it meant they could stay, live and work in Hong Kong if thats what they wanted.
yeah, taking a year away from the people i used to work for. something is wrong? that year i was away. i didnt get pay. and if you think i am bad taking a year off. what about they let people take time off to go to jail? thats even better?microlab wrote:Oooolaahlaah.We all have to feel sorry for you now that you took 1 year holiday and that takes 5 months to sort out your work permit.will answer the Microlab in this reply as well. not trying to be rude here. if you have been throught what i have been throught. you will understand what i am trying to say.
You can "debate" as much as you want.
That said, I`ll stop posting in this thread.
limeylimey wrote:JAJ: In my case,I was applying for a one year multi-entry visa to china and Hong Kong using my British passport. But just because I also have Irish citizenship they refused to process my application and told me to leave the Embassy!
After reading up on it I thought that the person who dealt with me hadn't a bloody clue what they were doing so I went back a week later just with my British passport and got the visa no problem!
Thta is not the only time they have messed me around either!
oh really??? so can you please enlighten me on what parts of the good friday agreement 1998 was all about?? or britiain finally recognising the new articles 2 and 3 of bunreacht na heireann (changed in order to keep te unionists happy and to finally recognise partition). calling gerry adams british now are you? (no i am not a supporter of him)head up to west belfast/derry city and ask them what nationality most of them consider themselves.the nationalists do not need to complain, they are entitled to make an application for an irish passport any time they want, the same as they can apply for a british passport its their entitlement by birth, its up to them to excercise their rights. this has always been the way since 1937. check out mary mcalese's books to see if she considered herself as british.JAJ wrote:Only the United Kingdom has the right to say who is and is not a British citizen. As a person born in Belfast in 1951, there is absolutely no ambiguity about the British citizenship of President McAleese. She is of course more than welcome to visit the British Embassy in Dublin to renounce it, if she sees fit.walrusgumble wrote: british citizen? you ignorant f*(k. SHe is an irish citizen (she never took up the british passport, entitled from birth, dont go whinging cause ye dont have it. maybe ye should understand this countries history before forking out a bit of money and waiting 5 years before getting yours. i would love if you had the balls to say that in a nationalist area in northern ireland. you wanna check out was articles 2 and 3 of the constitution and section 6 of inc act 1956-2004 before ya come out with that guff.so no she is not legally or politically a british citizen or nor was she ever.
It is ironic that contrary to many other "national minorities", those in the Irish nationalist community in Northern Ireland have always held full British citizenship. Had that not been the case, one suspects that they (and the Irish government) would have been the first to complain.
ireland is not the only country to give non eu parents child citizenship. spain still doing that. it just the irish law talk to up. united states and canada still giving out citizenship to illegal immigrants(including the so call undocumented irish) childs as long as they born within north america. here is the fact. the irish government will only bring out new immigration policy when the british has new policy. in fact, if those guys in the irish government so patriotic, why mary harney and the pds voted in favor of the british government before about the northern ireland.walrusgumble wrote:oh really??? so can you please enlighten me on what parts of the good friday agreement 1998 was all about?? or britiain finally recognising the new articles 2 and 3 of bunreacht na heireann (changed in order to keep te unionists happy and to finally recognise partition). calling gerry adams british now are you? (no i am not a supporter of him)head up to west belfast/derry city and ask them what nationality most of them consider themselves.the nationalists do not need to complain, they are entitled to make an application for an irish passport any time they want, the same as they can apply for a british passport its their entitlement by birth, its up to them to excercise their rights. this has always been the way since 1937. check out mary mcalese's books to see if she considered herself as british.JAJ wrote:Only the United Kingdom has the right to say who is and is not a British citizen. As a person born in Belfast in 1951, there is absolutely no ambiguity about the British citizenship of President McAleese. She is of course more than welcome to visit the British Embassy in Dublin to renounce it, if she sees fit.walrusgumble wrote: british citizen? you ignorant f*(k. SHe is an irish citizen (she never took up the british passport, entitled from birth, dont go whinging cause ye dont have it. maybe ye should understand this countries history before forking out a bit of money and waiting 5 years before getting yours. i would love if you had the balls to say that in a nationalist area in northern ireland. you wanna check out was articles 2 and 3 of the constitution and section 6 of inc act 1956-2004 before ya come out with that guff.so no she is not legally or politically a british citizen or nor was she ever.
It is ironic that contrary to many other "national minorities", those in the Irish nationalist community in Northern Ireland have always held full British citizenship. Had that not been the case, one suspects that they (and the Irish government) would have been the first to complain.
or the chen v mjelr/ireland case in ecj in 2003, you might remember that prior to the change of law in relation to automatic rights of non national parents who were allowed to stay here on basis of child been born in ireland, chen was granted residency despite the fact that her child was born in belfast. uk were kicking them out. but guess what? the chen's applied for an irish passport. why? article 2 and 3. what happens next? because of this new status, they have freedom of movement in europe. what was the reaction of european commissions reaction to ireland been the only country at that time allowing non nationals residecy on the basis of irish born child? they went mental fearing that ireland was a backdoor to imigrants abusing the immigration process all over europe. what was the reaction of eu when ireland came more into line with the rest of the union with regard to ireland's change of law? ting of relief.
walrusgumble wrote: oh really??? so can you please enlighten me on what parts of the good friday agreement 1998 was all about?? or britiain finally recognising the new articles 2 and 3 of bunreacht na heireann (changed in order to keep te unionists happy and to finally recognise partition). calling gerry adams british now are you? (no i am not a supporter of him)head up to west belfast/derry city and ask them what nationality most of them consider themselves.the nationalists do not need to complain, they are entitled to make an application for an irish passport any time they want, the same as they can apply for a british passport its their entitlement by birth, its up to them to excercise their rights. this has always been the way since 1937. check out mary mcalese's books to see if she considered herself as british.
Nothing to do with "articles 2 and 3" as you suggest, but instead the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956, as amended.or the chen v mjelr/ireland case in ecj in 2003, you might remember that prior to the change of law in relation to automatic rights of non national parents who were allowed to stay here on basis of child been born in ireland, chen was granted residency despite the fact that her child was born in belfast. uk were kicking them out. but guess what? the chen's applied for an irish passport. why? article 2 and 3. what happens next?
Once again. There was no amendment to the British nationality legislation in 1998. And the British Nationality Act 1981 does not make British citizenship acquired automatically under the law conditional on whether the individual concerned (or the parents of a child) want to have it or not.walrusgumble wrote: oh really??? so can you please enlighten me on what parts of the good friday agreement 1998 was all about?? or britiain finally recognising the new articles 2 and 3 of bunreacht na heireann (changed in order to keep te unionists happy and to finally recognise partition). calling gerry adams british now are you? (no i am not a supporter of him)head up to west belfast/derry city and ask them what nationality most of them consider themselves.the nationalists do not need to complain, they are entitled to make an application for an irish passport any time they want, the same as they can apply for a british passport its their entitlement by birth, its up to them to excercise their rights. this has always been the way since 1937. check out mary mcalese's books to see if she considered herself as british.
Nothing to do with "articles 2 and 3" as you suggest, but instead the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956, as amended.or the chen v mjelr/ireland case in ecj in 2003, you might remember that prior to the change of law in relation to automatic rights of non national parents who were allowed to stay here on basis of child been born in ireland, chen was granted residency despite the fact that her child was born in belfast. uk were kicking them out. but guess what? the chen's applied for an irish passport. why? article 2 and 3. what happens next?
The Northern Ireland Act 1998 did not amend the British Nationality Act 1981.walrusgumble wrote: the good friday agreement is an internatinal treaty.Article1 vi made both the uk and ireland and ni, to recognise the right of a person in ni to hold one or both nationalities. article 2 of the said agreement established that both governments would change their laws to give this treaty effect. ireland did in amending article 2 and 3 of bunreacht na heireann. this was significant in that ireland (wronlgy) never offically in writing into law ever recognise partition or the legal status of northern ireland. uk changed their laws to repeal act of government of ireland 1920. and gave this act (good friday) effect nothwithstanding any other previous enactments,(see annex A)
They didn't vote for a change in the Act. They voted for a constitutional change to enable a change in the Act. Big difference.the chen case. yes you are correct with the inc act 1956 as amended. but, articles 2 and 3 of the consitution would always be invoked if chen had to appeal to irish courts if grant of passport was rejected. or if their was a dispute in relation to a proposal to change the irish nationality and citizenship act. the issue of catherine been irish was not in dispute in the ecj, but in the rep it helped to influence, along with lobe, the people of the country to vote for a change in the inc act by referendum
But no right to work.the ecj also held that Community law guarantees dependent ascendant relatives of the holder of a right of residence a right to install themselves with that person.
No, that's not correct. Irish citizenship under the 1956 Act was automatic for those born in Northern Ireland, with the proviso that those born there on or after 6 December 1922 were not Irish citizens unless:as for the issue of citizenship to northern ireland people prior to the 1950's
they were still entitled to such citizenship under the 1956 act, but as you are correct, they were not given it automatically.the good friday agreement changed that.
No-one is disputing whether or not President McAleese is or has been an Irish citizen. That, however does not affect her status as a British citizen.but mary macalese was and always was an irish citizen. her father was born in roscommon,in the free state. as such under the the 1935 act was a natural irsh citizen through her father.
Charming.walrusgumble wrote:british citizen? you ignorant f*(k. SHe is an irish citizen (she never took up the british passport, entitled from birth...
i am not disputing with you about the position on british legisaltion. i am not disputing any northerns automatic right to irish citizenship or to british citizenship. why would the 1998 agreement want to change british legisaltion? it does not effect the main land britian. they changed their law in relation to laws affecting northern ireland and the laws in relation to the devolution of powers to northern ireland, as they had to change their setting arrangements in westminister, so it was not a change to nationality legislation.JAJ wrote:The Northern Ireland Act 1998 did not amend the British Nationality Act 1981.walrusgumble wrote: the good friday agreement is an internatinal treaty.Article1 vi made both the uk and ireland and ni, to recognise the right of a person in ni to hold one or both nationalities. article 2 of the said agreement established that both governments would change their laws to give this treaty effect. ireland did in amending article 2 and 3 of bunreacht na heireann. this was significant in that ireland (wronlgy) never offically in writing into law ever recognise partition or the legal status of northern ireland. uk changed their laws to repeal act of government of ireland 1920. and gave this act (good friday) effect nothwithstanding any other previous enactments,(see annex A)
"International treaties" do not become enforceable in domestic law without an Act of Parliament.
They didn't vote for a change in the Act. They voted for a constitutional change to enable a change in the Act. Big difference.the chen case. yes you are correct with the inc act 1956 as amended. but, articles 2 and 3 of the consitution would always be invoked if chen had to appeal to irish courts if grant of passport was rejected. or if their was a dispute in relation to a proposal to change the irish nationality and citizenship act. the issue of catherine been irish was not in dispute in the ecj, but in the rep it helped to influence, along with lobe, the people of the country to vote for a change in the inc act by referendum
But no right to work.the ecj also held that Community law guarantees dependent ascendant relatives of the holder of a right of residence a right to install themselves with that person.
No, that's not correct. Irish citizenship under the 1956 Act was automatic for those born in Northern Ireland, with the proviso that those born there on or after 6 December 1922 were not Irish citizens unless:as for the issue of citizenship to northern ireland people prior to the 1950's
they were still entitled to such citizenship under the 1956 act, but as you are correct, they were not given it automatically.the good friday agreement changed that.
- they had ties by way of descent with the Republic of Ireland, or Northern Ireland prior to 06.12.1922, [this was most of the population] OR
- they made a declaration on a special form.
Don't believe me? The 1956 Act as originally enacted is on the BAILII website:
http://www.bailii.org/ie/legis/num_act/ ... 956.1.html
No-one is disputing whether or not President McAleese is or has been an Irish citizen. That, however does not affect her status as a British citizen.but mary macalese was and always was an irish citizen. her father was born in roscommon,in the free state. as such under the the 1935 act was a natural irsh citizen through her father.
well, all i can say is my reaction/kinder is alot better than the reaction one would might get if they went up to someone from derry city or west belfast to remind them that they are also british citizens. (that includes people from this side of the country who have done so when they are arguing with a northie) lets just say there is still some bad blood in certain areas with the south and main land britian in the eyes of said people.Christophe wrote:Charming.walrusgumble wrote:british citizen? you ignorant f*(k. SHe is an irish citizen (she never took up the british passport, entitled from birth...
Has she formally renounced her British citizenship? She might have: I don't know. However, the mere fact that she (presumably) does not carry, or has never carried, a British passport does not affect her British citizenship, since citizenship is not predicated upon the possession, or not, of a passport. Neither is British citizenship predicated on the basis of whether one wishes (or not) to be a British citizen.
Since she holds another citizenship (Irish), she could renounce her British citizenship (to the British authorities and in the way prescribed by British law and regulation) and she would no longer be a British citizen - if she hasn't done this already.