EEA Treaty Rights- What are they?

[cb1964]

In order for a non-EEA spouse of an EEA resident exercising her treaty rights (I'm Irish and living in England), what exactly will we have to prove in order for my husband to obtain a visa? My understanding is is that we only have to prove our marriage is genuine, we do not have to prove anything about finances, etc.

Many thanks.

[JAJ]

In order for a non-EEA spouse of an EEA resident exercising her treaty rights (I'm Irish and living in England), what exactly will we have to prove in order for my husband to obtain a visa? My understanding is is that we only have to prove our marriage is genuine, we do not have to prove anything about finances, etc.

Are you aware that as an Irish citizen, you can sponsor for a UK spouse visa under normal UK rules.

More expensive, but a quicker route to permanent residence and British citizenship.

How long have you lived in the UK and have you any children planned?

[cb1964]

Hmmm, not sure I would want to be married to a 'British' Citizen.

We wouldn't consider even trying for children until he is here as I think it would be a rather silly thing to do.

I've been here donkey's years.

[JAJ]

Hmmm, not sure I would want to be married to a 'British' Citizen.

We wouldn't consider even trying for children until he is here as I think it would be a rather silly thing to do.

I've been here donkey's years.

Well if you are living in the United Kingdom, he's never going to become an Irish citizen, unless you happen to be in Northern Ireland. Have you thought about naturalisation as a British citizen yourself? (would fix a number of immigration issues).

[cb1964]

Please stop trying to make me British!!!!

[JAJ]

Please stop trying to make me British!!!!

Your choice obviously. But if you don't want to be British, why do you want to remain in the United Kingdom? You could always return to Ireland if you would feel more comfortable there.

And in answer to your original question, EEA Treaty Rights generally mean working or studying, although there are less common ways too.

[cb1964]

Are you seriously saying that everyone who lives here for any length of time wishes to be British?

Anyway, I think we are getting away from the point.

[JAJ]

Are you seriously saying that everyone who lives here for any length of time wishes to be British?

Hard to see why anyone would want to live in the UK for a long time if they preferred to stay a foreigner.

Life's too short to spend it in a place you feel you don't belong.

[cb1964]

Jaj, Please don't bother to respond to anything I write as you are not actually trying to answer my question.

[ball1333]

Jaj, Please don't bother to respond to anything I write as you are not actually trying to answer my question.

I'm sure for a few hundred quid an immigration lawyer would be happy to answer any questions you may have...without asking you any questions to determine whether his/her answers are truly appropriate to your situation.

[Wanderer]

Jaj, Please don't bother to respond to anything I write as you are not actually trying to answer my question.

That's a shame, cos JAJ is one of the experts here. And he owes me 50 quid now.

[Marco 72]

When we applied for my wife's EEA Family Permit two years ago we were advised to include: a letter of employment, two recent pay slips, and my most recent P60. This was probably overkill, the letter itself may well have been enough. However, that was two years ago and the rules may well have changed since then.

By the way, how has the definition of "treaty rights" changed over the years? When did studying, for example, become a treaty right? I remember reading in the early 90's that the movement of students was not covered by the Treaty of Rome, and that time spent as a student in the UK did not count towards residence when applying for naturalisation.

[mym]

When we applied for my wife's EEA Family Permit two years ago we were advised to include: a letter of employment, two recent pay slips, and my most recent P60. This was probably overkill, the letter itself may well have been enough. However, that was two years ago and the rules may well have changed since then.

As an aside, I strongly suggest anyone travelling in the EU with a non-EU partner reads the following:

http://ec.europa.eu/commission_barroso/ ... _ec_en.pdf

Oh, and btw, I don't think you need British Citizenship to "belong" here either...

[Marco 72]

Hmmm, not sure I would want to be married to a 'British' Citizen.

We wouldn't consider even trying for children until he is here as I think it would be a rather silly thing to do.

I've been here donkey's years.

I think what JAJ probably meant was that it might be useful for your husband to become an EU citizen in the future. Depending on his current nationality, this could make it easier for him to travel. Even if his current passport already allows him to travel visa free to most destinations, having EU citizenship would spare you a lot of bureaucracy if you decided to move to another EU country, or to spend a long period of time overseas. Just a thought.

[Docterror]

By the way, how has the definition of "treaty rights" changed over the years? When did studying, for example, become a treaty right?

Studying has become a treaty right since the advent of Directive 2004/38/EC and can be seen in Paragraph (1)(c) of Article 7. It is also transpositioned as 4 (1)(d) in the Immigration EEA Regulations 2006.

While the Treaty of Rome did not initially include the Economically self-sufficient person to be exercising the treay right as well, it is currently been modified to include them as well along with students to be a treaty right. Mind you, exercising treaty right as a student means you donot have the right of having "extended family members" to reside with you in the Member State.

[Marco 72]

Thanks, I had been wondering about that. So an EU citizen who had been studying in the UK for 5+ years (or studying for 3 years and working for 2) would not have qualified for naturalisation in 1999, say?

[Docterror]

Not really... As the Directive did not come into force until 30.4.2006, irrespective of how long the treaty rights have been exercised, the EEA national would not have qualified for it under the EEA route.

However, prior to that they could have applied for ILR after 4 years as a worker under the UK immigration rules and then applied for naturalisation after holding ILR for atleast an year as PR were not automatic prior to the implementation of Directive2004/38/EC.

I do not think that an EEA student could apply for ILR under the UK immigration rules prior to 30.4.2006 after 4 years, but will let someone who was interested in the immigration laws prior to that time frame verify.

[John]

I do not think that an EEA student could apply for ILR under the UK immigration rules prior to 30.4.2006 after 4 years

That is right, after 4 years. However a Long Residence application would have been possible, However that is only possible after 10 years in the UK ... all legal .... or after 14 years .... all or partly as an illegal.

[tt]

Hard to see why anyone would want to live in the UK for a long time if they preferred to stay a foreigner.
Life's too short to spend it in a place you feel you don't belong.

There are at least 1.3 million British citizens resident in Australia. Many of them have not taken out Australian citizenship.

This has led to some criticism.

If you read this article, you can see some of the angst.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/australia/sto ... 40,00.html . Quote:"Let's not forget that these [200,000 British citizens who have been living in Australia since before 1984] have been given every chance to become Australian citizens and refused."

But I don't think most Australians would really question too hard why the British resident there wants to remain a foreigner there. Possibly one reason would be that infact no-one would actually see them as foreigners, not would the British resident see themselves as a foreigner there.
Possibly there would be the "loyalty" questions, much along the lines of the "cricket test" (who would you support?), and grumbles a la the article above, but no fundamental questioning of whether they belong or not...

[John]

Until about 3 or 4 years ago Australia did not permit dual nationality, but now it does. The result, here in the UK, was a huge number of applications for Naturalisation from Australians, many of whom had lived in the UK for a considerable number of years.

And in Australia? Was there a noticeable increase in the number of British citizens seeking Australian citizenship?

[tt]

And in Australia? Was there a noticeable increase in the number of British citizens seeking Australian citizenship?

But bear in mind that the British citizen when applying for Australian citizenship would not have lost their British citizenship even before these long-awaited reforms 3 or 4 years ago..
In that sense, the British were never prevented from becoming Australian citizens because they were infact able to effectively become dual citizens even under the old law.

There is though an interesting aspect to whether there has been a noticeable increase in the number of British citizens seeking Australian citizenship recently....

Infact there has been a change in the Citizenship laws in Australia just yesterday (1 July, 2007) which the Australian government is expecting to increase the likelihood of those gaining Australian citizenship. Though... (unfortunately) the period of residence required in Australia has been increased to 4 years now.

[JAJ]

There are at least 1.3 million British citizens resident in Australia. Many of them have not taken out Australian citizenship.

...

But I don't think most Australians would really question too hard why the British resident there wants to remain a foreigner there. Possibly one reason would be that infact no-one would actually see them as foreigners, not would the British resident see themselves as a foreigner there.

Equally incomprehensible. If they feel that Australia is home, then why on earth don't they want to have Australian citizenship and passports?

[ball1333]

Equally incomprehensible. If they feel that Australia is home, then why on earth don't they want to have Australian citizenship and passports?

I have a theory...now don't everyone queue up to shoot me...but: it is a lot easier to grumble without having to take responsibility for changing things if you can't participate fully in the democracy where you reside. In the early American republic the idea of "taxation without representation" was deemed utterly unacceptable. But when you look at it, I - an American citizen - signed up for taxation without representation when I submitted my visa application! I can imagine it being a very comfortable situation for a grumbling Brit to engage in whingeing about the Australian government with the excuse that all he/she can do is whinge because he/she can't vote.

On a broader basis, consider the low/declining rates of voter turnout in many developed Western countries. Every year many people voluntarily abstain from voting and a tons of local government elections are won uncontested. I think lack of a sense of civic duty influences a lot of the choices that people in established democracies make today.

I for one will be voting in US elections by absentee postal ballot when I move to the UK, and I will get back into community organisations that I supported when I lived in the UK as a student a few years ago. I will be very pleased someday when I can vote in a UK election. By that time some of my friends will probably be standing as MP candidates . I have no doubt that as I establish myself in the UK I will exercise my right to vote in US elections less frequently, but I intend always to vote in the big ones, if not the local city council ones.

[limey]

CB: Speaking as someone with dual British/Irish citizenship.

I'm not saying that u should take out British citizenship!

But it would be another way for your husband to move to Ireland if u ever wanted to do that later. ie. If u you both moved to Ireland u could use your British citizenship and use the EEA Family Permit system to get him into Ireland. As against using your Irish citizenship to get a spouse visa for him.

But if he gained British citizenship himself (which would take longer) he could move to Ireland anyway!

Just to let u know what options are available.

[cb1964]

In order for a non-EEA spouse of an EEA resident exercising her treaty rights (I'm Irish and living in England), what exactly will we have to prove in order for my husband to obtain a visa? My understanding is is that we only have to prove our marriage is genuine, we do not have to prove anything about finances, etc.

Many thanks.

No further responses needed. The judge upheld the appeal. Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!