Help Me please Form MN1 or Form T

[spike2009]

Hi my son was born in 2001 to unmarried parents, i have custody of my son and im British, my son was born here in england and has not been abroad at all and has remained here completely. my sons mum came here from italy by her british born mother in around 1969 at 2 years old and didnt get leave to remain or citizenship, she just stayed here and has been here for 40 plus years, i have applied for a passport for my son and was refused because under the rules he has to take his mothers nationality. On further investigation i find that 2 forms both fit my sons criteria to apply for citizenship, form MN1 and Form T, im confused as of which to use, could you please advise, Thanks.Our story has been printed last thursday by The Daily Mirror. Pleasaew click the link to read the report and information. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ky ... uS9v1JFCUl.

[spike2009]

Hi I'm unsure if I should fill out for MN1 or form T for citizenship of my child, I'm an British parent with a 12 year old boy who was born in England and has never been abroad, his mother is an Italian who has lived here since the age of 2 but was never registered as a British national, I have full custody of him. My question is that he fits 100% the criteria on form MN1 and 100% of the criteria on Form T under a section on both forms, if I fill out the wrong form will the money be forfeited or held until I send in the correct form. I cannot afford to lose this money. All the passport and border agencies I've emailed and rang will not answer my question, all I get is seek legal advice, which I cannot afford either, any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Jambo]

If he fits both criteria you can choose which one to apply under although it would be probably be easier to apply (in terms of evidence required) using form MN1.

Were you married to the mother at the time of th birth?

[spike2009]

No I wasn't married, otherwise I wouldn't be having this hassle, been tearing my hair out with the passport lot, they are zero use with any kind of help after weeks and weeks of correspondance

[spike2009]

Do you no if I filled in the wrong form if the money would be forfeited or would they let me fill in the other form, I intend as it stands to use form MN1 by the look of it, although there is some stumbling blocks for me, there is no passport that my childs mother came over from Italy from in 1971 and neither her or her mother know the date on which they came here and it also asks for the date when my sons mother became a citizen of the uk or was registewred when she wasn't, if I leave this blank, will it cause further problems.Thanks

[spike2009]

Also can someone verify if its section 3(1) id be applying under, the circumstances are he was born in the uk, has never left the uk at all, and im English always have been and I was born here, he was born in 2001 to unmarried parents were the father is british and the mother Italian.

[spike2009]

Also for MN1 states it doesn't cover Children born in the UK who have lived there for at least the first 10 years of their
life – British Nationality Act 1981, section 1(4) – see guide T, that's why im confused as to form T because he has lived here for the first 10 years of his life so MN1 would not be relevant.

[njyildum1]

You do not need to register your son as a British citizen if you are a British Citizen.

I have a son who is British through his mum. I am a foreigner and we have never been married. He is automatically British as his mum is British. I have never registered him. He is just 6 months old and he has a British passport. All I needed was his birth certificate.

So may I ask why you are registering your so in the first place?

[spike2009]

I Have to get british citizenship for him because he was born before 2006 when the law was changed, all children born after 1983 and before 2006 have to take their mothers nationality, so my son in the eyes of the law my son is Italian, I need to get him a british passport so he has to become a citizen, stupid as it sounds but that's what I have to do.Thanks.

[spike2009]

I am totally at a loss because form T states in the guide that if one of the parents was a british born subject then your ALREADY A BRITISH CITIZEN, but when i applied for his passport it was passed to the higher complex team, and i was told in writing that he isnt allowed a passport because he;s italian and quoted the 1983-2006 law, but on the passport and also the border agency he meets the criteria for a passpprt without all this, nobody seems to be able to help me, its a confusing website with confusing laws and conditions,.

[spike2009]

this is what i need to do, this is the british nationality act 1981 section 4(1) A person born in the United Kingdom after commencement who is not a British citizen by virtue of subsection (1) [F9, (1A)] or (2) shall be entitled, on an application for his registration as a British citizen made at any time after he has attained the age of ten years, to be registered as such a citizen if, as regards each of the first ten years of that person’s life, the number of days on which he was absent from the United Kingdom in that year does not exceed 90. What does all that mean, does it mean he will get it but i have to apply for it, and if so what form and sectiondo i apply under

[njyildum1]

Look!!!!! your child is automatically British and Italian at the same time. No Law requires you to register him. Did you say you applied for a British passport and got refused? Is your name not on your son's birth certificate?

[njyildum1]

The Law says if either parents are British Citizens then the child is automatically a British Citizen. I see no confusion in that. So why is anyone denying your son a British Passport. He automatically entitled to it. It is a right not privilege.

[spike2009]

I understand what your saying, and yes my name is on my childs birth cirtificate, but theyve refused my sons passport application when i applied in the normal way, because he was born in 2001 to unmarried parents therefore he takes the mothers nationality which is italian, ive been in the papers for this, im not making it up, see this link for the newspaper report http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ky ... ugJ__tFDcv that has all the information.

[spike2009]

i know the law states if either are british citizens (parents) then the child is automatically british, but yet im refused, ive stated their own website eligibility criteria at them and they still refused stating this, if the child is born illegitimatley (unmarried parents) after 1983 and before 2006 (only these dates) then the child will take the mothers nationality only.

[njyildum1]

Its quite unfortunate. I feel so sorry for you. This is ridiculous. It makes no sense whatsoever. But the Law also states that you are automatically British if either parent is British. So where is the confusion? Who is getting it wrong? Have you sort legal advice?

[spike2009]

No i havent sought legal advise as of yet, im seeing my MP saturday, the confusion is of the governments making, It doesnt cover all children in the law ,that everyone understands as the right way, thats why i went to the papers, they took 2 months checking this out to be true and correct what i was saying before they could publish it (which the daily mirror found what i was stating was true), because it seems so ridiculous to be true, but here i am. Thanks for your responses, i hope to have a clearer picture on saturday.

[vinny]

I understand what your saying, and yes my name is on my childs birth cirtificate, but theyve refused my sons passport application when i applied in the normal way, because he was born in 2001 to unmarried parents therefore he takes the mothers nationality which is italian, ive been in the papers for this, im not making it up, see this link for the newspaper report http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ky ... ugJ__tFDcv that has all the information.

Unfortunately, as you are unmarried, you do not satisfy the "meaning of parent"

If you were born in the United Kingdom between 2 October 2000 and 29 April 2006 to parents who were EEA citizens, you will not be a British citizen unless one of your parents had been given indefinite leave to remain before the date of your birth. However, you may be able to register as a British citizen if one of your parents later gets indefinite leave to remain (see Registering your child as a British citizen or subject).

If his mother had ILR at the time of his birth, then he is automatically be British (1(1)(b )) otherwise than by descent. Else, he is entitled to register.

[Just Wondering]

Its quite unfortunate. I feel so sorry for you. This is ridiculous. It makes no sense whatsoever. But the Law also states that you are automatically British if either parent is British. So where is the confusion? Who is getting it wrong? Have you sort legal advice?

The law is more complicated than you're setting out.

[Just Wondering]

Spike2009, using the wrong form will mean your fee is forfeited. So, you're right to figure out which form is required before submitting it. Unfortunately, immigration applications tend to be expensive.

vinny is right - at the time of your son's birth, you would not have been recognized in the eyes of UKBA as the parent as you were an unmarried father. However, post-2006, this is remedied as the UKBA has discretion to register children born pre-1 July 2006 to unmarried British fathers as set out in the link in vinny's post with regard to applications under section 3(1) British Nationality Act under application MN1. However, as you've stated, your child has been in the UK for 12 years and he has never left since birth. Therefore, MN1 is not appropriate as it only covers children who have been here under 10 years.

As you've stated, your son is eligible to registered via section 1(4) British Nationality Act based on 10 years residency and being born in the UK. The form required is Form T.

Also, The Mirror article is wrong about tuition fees. Domestic tuition fees are for UK/EU nationals and as your son is Italian, he would qualify for domestic tuition rates. So if your son did decide to get an Italian passport, he would not be classed as an overseas student. Students are classed as EU or non-EU.

[spike2009]

Thank you soooo much (just wondering) and (vinny) I thought I was right but I just had to make sure, That's a big relief at least I know which form I need (T), now I have to download and try and get everything the form asks for, thanks sooo much, ive woke up this morning after reading this a lot less stressed, Thank You Both Again.

[spike2009]

That's what caused me the confusion, is that form T states in the guide that if either "parent" is a British citizen then the child is automatically British, as (just wondering) as just cleared up is that im not classed as a parent because I was unmarried to the mother, now it makes sense to me. Now it just a case of finding the funds for it. What i'll never understand is why pre 1983 and after 2006, is that under the same circumstances he would automatically be a british citizen, but all the 1000's of children born between 1983 and 2006 to unmarried parents are stuck in this loop, it's a tad unfair to say the least. Thanks to the members of immigrationboard.com for clearing this up for me. Great work and keep up the top advice.

[Jambo]

However, as you've stated, your child has been in the UK for 12 years and he has never left since birth. Therefore, MN1 is not appropriate as it only covers children who have been here under 10 years.

This is slightly incorrect. He can still apply using MN1 if applies under one of the sections covered by MN1 even if the child has been in the UK for more than 10 years.

Your child can apply under section 3(1) using form MN1 or under section 1(4) using form T. As section 3(1) is application at discretion while section 1(4) is entitlement (i.e. this doesn't depends on the caseworker. If the child meets the requirements, Registration must be granted), I would recommend applying based on section 1(4) (form T) if you are able to produce the required evidence.

BTW - didn't the mother apply for ILR before the child birth? I know that EU nationals didn't have to but as she has been living here for so long maybe she (or her parents) made such an application. If the mother had ILR before the birth, the UK born child would be British.

[Just Wondering]

It is not incorrect when read in the context of the matter at hand.

See page 4 http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... de_mn1.pdf

See: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... shcitizen/ which states

Registrations should be made using application form MN1, except for children...born in the United Kingdom who have lived there for at least the first 10 years of their life;

This child was born in the UK and has lived in the UK for 12 years since birth. MN1 is not the appropriate form.

[Jambo]

It is not incorrect when read in the context of the matter at hand.

See page 4 http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... de_mn1.pdf

See: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... shcitizen/ which states

Registrations should be made using application form MN1, except for children...born in the United Kingdom who have lived there for at least the first 10 years of their life;

This child was born in the UK and has lived in the UK for 12 years since birth. MN1 is not the appropriate form.

The text is slightly misleading. It should have said

Registrations should be made using application form MN1, except for children applying under section 1(4)...born in the United Kingdom who have lived there for at least the first 10 years of their life;

It's not the child's residence that determines which application to use but the section under which the child is applying. Section 1(3), 3(1), 3(2), 3(5) should use MN1. Section 1(4) form T.

Take for example a child born in the UK shortly after his parents moved here. His parents then obtain ILR under long residency (10 years). So he is eligible under section 1(3) and 1(4). Would you claim that the child can't make an application under 1(3) using form MN1 just because he also qualifies under another section?