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EC Citizens Signpost Service - Free Advice

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2, Administrator

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limey
Member
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:33 pm
Location: France

EC Citizens Signpost Service - Free Advice

Post by limey » Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:34 pm

I found this EC website and where you can ask questions and thought it may be useful to peope here. It is a free service!...

Please Note: When submitting your query save your text locally first because if a field is not completed correctly you lose everything and cannot get back to it!!!

http://ec.europa.eu/citizensrights/fron ... dex_en.htm

Welcome to the Citizens Signpost Service.
On the move in Europe and wondering about your rights? Problem with car registration or obtaining social security cover in another EU country?

The CSS is aimed at EU citizens who encounter problems with mobility in the European Internal Market.

The CSS is an advisory service which gives guidance and practical advice to citizens on specific problems they encounter in the EU and its Internal Market.

The service is free.

The reply provided by multilingual legal experts is personalised, objective, and quick. They experts clarify the relevant rules. They direct the citizen towards the body which can best help solve the problem. They advice on how to assert the citizen’s rights and obtain redress.

Replies are given by phone or e-mail in the language requested by the citizen (one of the 20 official languages).

The service operates in conjunction with Your Europe website which offers general guides and country-specific factsheets with information on citizens’rights.

To know more about the Citizens Signpost Service, please click "About this site".

checo
Newly Registered
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:06 pm

Post by checo » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:03 am

Yes, that is the crappy EU service where I asked before I came to Ireland, if my wife can work and live with me here without any problems and they assured me that she can, because of the free movement of people within EU. And it was not true.

limey
Member
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:33 pm
Location: France

Post by limey » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:06 am

Checo: I have also posted a question to them. Let's see what they say.

CloggieVodka
Newly Registered
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Reply from Signpost service.

Post by CloggieVodka » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:59 pm

Ok, Signpost service does not do much good, however, if you feel the need to rant at someone... then they do certainly provide a listening ear...

The experience is like writing to a very disinterested though listening obudsman.

Here's a reply to our letter.
The letter addressed INIS lack of action in processing EU1 applications and the change in 'requirements' and furthermore asked if there will be any EU action in this matter..
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reply
Thank you for your inquiry.

This is an issue that has been brought to our attention on numerous occasions by similar couples .i.e. EU citizens with a non-eu spouse seeking a residence permit in Ireland.

The requirement that you live in another EU country before moving to the host country (Ireland in this case) does not appear in any of the EU Directives. This appears to be a provision introduced by the Irish authorities.

Under EU law, the following family members, whatever their nationality, have the right to reside with you in the host Member State:

• your spouse (as in your case);
• the partner with whom you have contracted a registered partnership in a Member State, but only if the legislation of the host Member State treats registered partnerships as equivalent to marriage and in accordance with the conditions laid down by the host Member State;
• your descendants and those of your spouse or registered partner who are under the age of 21 or are dependants;
• your dependent relatives in the ascending line and those of your spouse or registered partner.
Member States must also facilitate the entry and residence of:
• other family members who are dependants or members of your household or who require your personal care due to serious health grounds, and
• the partner with whom you have a durable relationship, duly attested.

If the family members are EU citizens, they may be required to register with the competent authority, in which case they will be issued with a registration certificate.
If they are third-country nationals as in the case of your spouse, they will be issued a residence card, valid for five years or for the envisaged period of residence of the worker if this period is less than five years. Under EU law an entry visa may also be required by the host Member State (Ireland) to enter the territory of the host Member State.

Only the following documents may be required for issuing the registration certificate or the residence card:
• a valid identity card or passport; if the family members are third-country nationals, they must produce a valid passport;
• proof of the family relationship or of the registered partnership;
• the registration certificate of the worker or, in the absence of a registration system, any other proof of residence in the host Member state;
• in the case of dependant relatives, other family members or durable partnerships, proof that they fall into these categories.

Family members also qualify for the right of permanent residence after a continuous period of residence of five years in the host Member State. If they are EU nationals, they will be issued, upon application, with a document certifying permanent residence. If they are third-country nationals, they will be issued with a permanent residence card renewable every ten years.

They may retain, under certain specific conditions, the right of residence in case of divorce, annulment of marriage, termination of registered partnership, death or departure of the worker.

Members of the family who have the right of residence in the host Member State have the right to work in the host Member State whatever their nationality. If they are third country nationals, this means that no work permit will be required. They have the right to equal treatment, including the award of social advantages.
The children of the worker, whatever their nationality, have the right to education in the host Member State on the same terms as its nationals. This includes, for instance, a right to equal treatment in relation to study grants.

I wish to advise you that anyone may lodge a complaint with the Commission against a Member State about any measure (law, regulation or administrative action) or practice which they consider incompatible with a provision or a principle of Community law. For example, you refer to the EU1 application and the need to have lived in another EU country before this is granted. The only reason I can foresee for the Irish authorities introducing such a requirement would be special rules that they have enacted concerning or to prevent marriages of convenience and this might explain the requirement to have lived in another Member State as a married couple (but then of course there might be other reasons which you need to establish). Special rules on marriages of convenience exist in a number of EU Member States (Czech Republic, Ireland, Lithuania, Luxembourg and the UK). For example, under the Lithuanian rules all spouses married less than five years deserve special scrutiny. In Ireland, as you are aware, recently married couples have to provide extensive information on the history of their relationship.

If you wish to submit a formal complaint to the Commission you can use this form although you are not obliged to do so and you may also submit a complaint by ordinary letter: http://ec.europa.eu/community_law/compl ... orm_en.rtf
You will see from the form that you can send the form in the link above by ordinary mail to the following address:

Commission of the European Communities
(for the attention of the Secretary-General)
B-1049 Brussels
BELGIUM
You may also hand in the form at any of the Commission’s representative offices in Ireland:
European Union House,
18 Dawson Street,
Dublin 2
Tel: (01) 634 1111
Fax: (01) 634 1112
E-mail: eu-ie-info-request@ec.europa.eu


The advice given by the Signpost Service legal experts is independent advice and shall not be considered to be the opinion of the European Commission. As such it will not in anyway bind the Commission.

CloggieVodka
Newly Registered
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Reply from Signpost service.

Post by CloggieVodka » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:59 pm

<duplicate removed>
Last edited by CloggieVodka on Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

limey
Member
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:33 pm
Location: France

Post by limey » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:58 pm

Cloggie: Thanks for sharing that info. Did u lodge a complaint? Maybe u should ask what they are going to do about it.

I put a query to them regarding my own case and my Chinese wife. I asked for the relevent EEA/EU Family Permit rules and specifically mentioned that the Irish government are routinely refusing the Family Permits of non-EEA/EU spouses. I will post the response when I receive it.

I am wondering what effect the new EU constitution will have in this area?

CloggieVodka
Newly Registered
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Post by CloggieVodka » Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:21 pm

Hi Limey,

We did complain, and quite frankly, we are running out of trees to bark up to.....
As for formal complaints, these were lodged with our TD and with INIS, copying various organizations (Dept of Taoiseach, DoJ, Government Ombudsman, EU Commission, Immigrant Rights Centre, etc).
So far our complaints have not been answered, apart from the TD who as of yet has not formally replied with what actions can be taken.

We are still waiting for a decision so we're not going in with all guns blazing.

As for EU action, their reply was silent on that matter, perhaps that information is best gotten from the Eurojus/EU Commission.

Seems that Signpost is not all too helpful, however, if they receive enough complaints, they might actually do something... even if it doesn't help, it won't hurt to raise your voice.

Perhaps we're better off getting a petition (not online, but a proper one) together of all that are affected by the current EU1 misery.

limey
Member
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:33 pm
Location: France

Post by limey » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:46 pm

Ok. Here is the reply from the Signpost service which is a bit of a Kop out but at least it makes them aware of what is going on...

Enquiry posted on

Enquiry
42142: I am a British citizen resident in the UK and am married to a Non-EU/EEA citizen. (My wife is Chinese)

I intend to move to Ireland and would like my wife to join me there. But we have heard of many cases were the Irish government is refusing to allow the spouse entry because they not from an EU/EEA country.

I thought it was my right to have my Non-EU spouse join me in another EU/EEA country under the EEA/EU Family Permit rules.

Just to add that we married in the UK in 2004 and we lived together as a married couple in the UK for 6 months up to 2005. Also I have spent some time in China.

Please can you clarify my EU/EEA rights here as we are finding this situation very stressful and just want to be together.

Reply
As a rule and general principle, the right of all EU citizens to reside in one of the 27 EU Member State for more than three months should also be granted to their family members. EU citizens, who have exercised their right to move and reside freely and moved to a host Member State, are therefore entitled to reside together with their family members, irrespective of nationality (however, this right would not apply to your wife on her own if she did not accompany or join you). Your wife however may require an entry visa as she is not an EU national.

Your wife, as a non-EU national, is obliged to apply for a residence card with the relevant authorities of the host Member State. Your right of residence is evidenced by issue of a residence card. For the residence card to be issued, the host Member State may only require that you present a valid passport and:
• a document attesting to the existence of a family relationship (for example your marriage certificate) or proof of a registered partnership;
• the registration certificate or, in the absence of a registration system, any other proof of residence in the host Member State of the Union citizen whom you accompany or join: and
• in case that you are dependant direct relative, documentary evidence to that effect.

The residence card should be issued to your wife no later than six months from the date on which you submit the application. A certificate of application for the residence card should be issued immediately. The residence card should be valid for five years from the date of issue or for the envisaged period of residence of the Union citizen i.e. the duration of your stay, if this period is less than five years. Possession of the residence card may under no circumstances be made a precondition for the exercise of a right or the completion of an administrative formality, as entitlement to rights may be attested by any other means of proof. What is important is that you have the right rather than having an official paper to that effect.

Please note that your wife’s residence in the host Member State i.e. Ireland, as a family member of a Union citizen (you) might have certain bearing on your right of residence. The Union citizen whose right to reside in the host Member State is dependent on having sufficient financial resources not to become a burden on social assistance system of the host Member State must show that all family members residing with him/her in the host Member State have comprehensive sickness insurance cover and that he/she has sufficient resources in order that the family members do not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence.

I wish to add the following. From a number of inquiries that I have dealt with, I can anticipate that when you are completing the required form for residence for your wife (this is a EU1 form) I am aware of a number of cases in which this form has been refused on the basis that the couple i.e. you and your wife, have not provided information that you have lived in another EU Member State as a married couple before moving to Ireland (although this requirement is not specified in any EU Directive). Therefore, I would strongly advise you to include evidence in your wife’s application highlighting that the two of you have lived together as a married couple in the UK before coming to Ireland.


The advice given by the Signpost Service legal experts is independent advice and shall not be considered to be the opinion of the European Commission. As such it will not in anyway bind the Commission.

Note: To post another enquiry, please visit the Signpost Service Web Site or contact EUROPE DIRECT.

CloggieVodka
Newly Registered
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Post by CloggieVodka » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:34 pm

Hi Limey,

If I were you, I'd get started on packing bags and moving to Ireland.... legally, there is no reason that your wife should be denied residence here (and following that, no re-entry visa requirements).

But, definately take that advise and submit documentation showing that your wife has lived in the UK (social security numbers, etc should suffice).

dania
Member
Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:52 am

Post by dania » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:25 pm

:shock:
"The world suffers a lot.Not because of the violence of bad people,but because of the silence of good people!" [Napolean]

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