ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

Controversial HSMP approved after a review.

Archived UK Tier 1 (General) points system forum. This route no longer exists.

Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2, Administrator

Locked
ikon1400
Member
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:18 am

Controversial HSMP approved after a review.

Post by ikon1400 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:00 am

Guys,

Fianlly My fiances HSMP has been apporved today(Phoned & got the decision) after a initial refusal.

God has showered her greatly.

Also please find the thread where i posted a query to find if i can get a successful review.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=16717

I Lost hope after reading the posts, but finally its her day i believe. Thanks guys.

Cheers
Ikon

rrst_101
Junior Member
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:57 am

Post by rrst_101 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:18 am

How is it possible to convince the HO after they have refused. Did you appeal or how did it work for you?

ikon1400
Member
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:18 am

Post by ikon1400 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:57 pm

Hi rrst_101

Its not convincing. moreover we cannot do without facts.

I had presented a review form with covering letter putting the facts about the case. It actually went to a review team & then to a manager for consideration.

finaly the nod came from the manager saying YES.

Again HMSP is quite tricky & sometimes a share of luck. may be both played well for me( i mean my fiance case)

Cheers
ikon

SYH
BANNED
Posts: 2137
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:06 pm
Location: somewhere else now

Post by SYH » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:55 pm

Yeah but can you put forth what you put in the appeal as points of persuasion

niruv
Member
Posts: 228
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:12 pm

Post by niruv » Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:21 pm

Congrats ikon1400

rrst_101
Junior Member
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:57 am

Post by rrst_101 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:24 am

Congrats ikon400, thats good news.
Looks like u r very well informed about the HSMP process.
My docs have reached the home office and I think its the worst time to reach (after Indians have been linked to the attacks).
Now my question is can the HO reject my application giving some vague reason.(Their actual reson could be that I am an Indian.)

ikon1400
Member
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:18 am

Post by ikon1400 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:47 am

Hi rrst_101

Dont get upset coz of these current affairs in the UK.

Be confident about your case and afterall its a opportuniuty that you seek to go there & work. For this they might tighten their rules or background checks. But they will not treat us 3rd rated.

Be at ur atmost optimism & you wil get wat you wanted.

For SYH:

I submitted a review letter with following points
1) Reason for not providing continuous payslips - break in company
2) stated clearly about the chage in guidance version 5 & version 4
3) Stated that i had used guidance version 4 since when i aplied it was valid
4) clarified tat i had used ANY 12 month logic out of 15 month.

To be specific i kind of fought their decision.

thankfully it paid well. if it dint may be critics would have proven am wrong.

Cheers
ikon

All de best.

Cheers
ikon

SYH
BANNED
Posts: 2137
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:06 pm
Location: somewhere else now

Post by SYH » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:12 am

Guess why they updated the guidance to close the loophole you used because that is not what they meant and other people must have been doing this too so you just squeezed through.

rrst_101
Junior Member
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:57 am

Post by rrst_101 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:38 am

thanks ikon400 for the inspiring lines.

gordon
Senior Member
Posts: 567
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 4:48 pm

Post by gordon » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:41 am

Inspiring, maybe, but don't follow his example as his evidentiary methods may not work in new applications going forward. AG

SYH
BANNED
Posts: 2137
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:06 pm
Location: somewhere else now

Post by SYH » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:11 am

gordon wrote:Inspiring, maybe, but don't follow his example as his evidentiary methods may not work in new applications going forward. AG
Nor will the basis

ikon1400
Member
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:18 am

Post by ikon1400 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:35 am

Hi rrst_101

See the one which looked inspiring for you dint seem to be for others here. Thats the bottom line. Caseworkers handle cases in a unique way & hence need not follow anybodies path or rule except what is said by the home office.

For SYH: As you said i really squeezed to get through, but i would like to point that i dint use any negative tactic here to do this. I Just re emphasized to them what i understood by the guidance. That had sounded quite positive for them & hence had got the approval. So i dont see any harm in this.

For gordon: You are right as none of the new applications can take my case as example & have to stick to the new guidance. Also people need to do double check of even something which might look quite simple.


Cheers
ikon

kck9
BANNED
Posts: 347
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:45 pm

Post by kck9 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:39 am

ikon1400 wrote:Hi rrst_101

Dont get upset coz of these current affairs in the UK.

Be confident about your case and afterall its a opportuniuty that you seek to go there & work. For this they might tighten their rules or background checks. But they will not treat us 3rd rated.

Be at ur atmost optimism & you wil get wat you wanted.

For SYH:

I submitted a review letter with following points
1) Reason for not providing continuous payslips - break in company
2) stated clearly about the chage in guidance version 5 & version 4
3) Stated that i had used guidance version 4 since when i aplied it was valid
4) clarified tat i had used ANY 12 month logic out of 15 month.

To be specific i kind of fought their decision.

thankfully it paid well. if it dint may be critics would have proven am wrong.

Cheers
ikon

All de best.

Cheers
ikon
Ikon

congratulations for your fight..........

ofcourse it is a valid reason............. sorry to post my query in your thread, but there is some relevance in this matter.

I want to ask you one thing about the my cousins application......

please go through the thread

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=16295
Want to know if anyone experienced this problem. Actually my cousin claimed

1. Maters degree - claimed - 35, awarded - 35
2. Previous earnings - claimed - 25, awarded - 20
3. Age - claimed - 10, awarded - 10
4. UK experience - claimed - 5, awarded - 5

Total - claimed 75, awarded 70

This is so frustating. Actually the reason that they have awarded only 20 in my previous earnings is

basically he claimed the duration as 1st April 2006 - 31 March 2007

during which he was working in UK from 1st April - May 5th 2006 (5 weeks) and July 13th 2006 to 31st March 2007 (37.5 weeks).

In the middle say between 5th May 2006 to 12th July 2006 (10 weeks) he was working in India. During that he dont even had the work permit to work in UK. He went back to India for that period and worked there, it was a short term contract position and there he got the salary on the basis of TDS (Tax deduction on Source).

Now he claimed the previous income only for the time period that he was in UK (as it is the place where he spend more time)on pro-rota basis and claimed 25 points which comes under 26000+ band.

Now the case worker refused the application because for the work in India (for 10 weeks) we haven't produced 2 valid proofs. He didnt consider the total income on pro-rata basis, he just accumalated the salary for the whole year.

Actually yesterday I have seen the pack that we received, he was completely satisfied with the UK experience and salary statements etc. but he was just expecting some kind of proof from india work in those 10 weeks. Firstly my question is what if we dont have the visa in UK and we just went to India and didnt work at all. is he going to expect us to work and show the proofs.

In the pack we sent all the letters that we have from the Indian employer. He gave us experience letter and in that he also mentioned how much he paid. It also includes a settlement slip as appendix. As it is very short period contract and it is for assignement there are no payslips. (it was something like if we complete the work, we will get money, otherwise no payments). As he completed the work, he received the money and it was not under the taxable income, so he didnt get any tax deductions. Also he came back to UK after that he didnt had any chance to file the self assessment.

Now we have sent the proofs to caseworker.
1. experience letter with a note that this much salary paid.
2. settlement slip with stamp and signature of employer.

both of them stapled together.

Now dont know whether he considered both of them as a single evidence or whether he didnt even see the settlement slip at all.

Do you people know whether there was any cases that caseworker didnt see the evidence before and after that when we applied for review he realised it was already there and issued the HSMP. what are all the chances for review in this scenario.
Also if my cousin is applying for review does he need to keep the same letters (which he already sent with the application).

how can we justify the case if he didnt notice any of the documents. (because he can always say that we haven't received this document before, you are just trying to add it now or something like that)

It is just they are expecting more evidences for India job which was only 10 weeks for the whole earning period. Thats the reason they are not considering the case on pro-rata basis.

Please drop in some suggessions. Thank you
Even the review has been rejected stating the same reason that they didnt find 2 evidences for India salary (10 weeks)...........now can we like you by making a complaint........because i just found that there is some guidance changes regarding the same point "if you have lived and worked in 2 different countries......................"

what do you say guys..........

please drop in some suggesstions.......

ikon1400
Member
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:18 am

Post by ikon1400 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:01 pm

Hi KCK,

First am afraid if your case is rejceted after a review, you cant go further.Please check for possibilities.

10 weeks period : Its more than 2 months which you cannot skip without proper reason for earning. I think your case has gone very complicated since they didnt consider your earnings in UK as pro-rata.I wud say its very tuf to convine them for this break in earning.Your india trip details can be valid & appealing .but end of it Casewrker always feels always better for straight maths.

Past Earnings claim : I thnk you can omit the earnings that you got in india and use the UK earning & see if you cross the threshold for 25 points.If you get this you can better apply fresh Coz always its easy to build than repair.

I am not sure if there is anything i need to understand better about ur case.Sorry if i misunderstood somewhere.

Otherwise post your doubts may be some other good heart can help us.

Cheers
ikon

kck9
BANNED
Posts: 347
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:45 pm

Post by kck9 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:17 pm

Ikon,

thnx for your reply.......

i understand that my cousin can apply for any review, but when we called them to find the review decision, they said the application is refsed again, but if you have any concerns, you can make a complaint......

regarding the 10 weeks period.........he actually dont have valid visa to stay in this country thus he went back to india and we provided the exit and entry dates and stamps (of passport) with the initial application itself..

also hsmp guidance version 4 says
If you have lived and worked in more than

one country during the past 15 months we will

normally assess your income over a 12-month

period against the country where you have spent

the longest period, on a pro-rata basis. For

example we consider a period of up to 12 months

in the last 15, so that if you have spent 8 of the

months in the United Kingdom and 4 in Nigeria,

we will take your earned income in the United

Kingdom, divide it by eight and multiply it by 12

to give an annual income figure. You will then be

allocated points appropriate to that figure. You

need to submit the appropriate forms of evidence

for consideration (see below).
and version 5 says
If you have lived and worked in more than

one country during the past 15 months we

will normally assess your income over a 12-

month period against the country where you

have spent the longest period, on a pro-rata

basis. For example we consider a period of

up to 12 months in the last 15, so that if you

have spent 8 of the months in the United

Kingdom and 4 in Nigeria, we will take your

earned income in the United Kingdom, divide

it by eight and multiply it by 12 to give an

annual income figure. You will then be

allocated points appropriate to that figure. if

you wish to have your earnings calculated on

a pro-rata basis, you should supply supporting

evidence to cover the full earnings period

claimed.
You need to submit the appropriate

forms of evidence for consideration for the

earnings period claimed(see below).
you can see the difference.... initially we made the application on 30th May during which the Version 4 guidelines where in place.

with that my cousin dont even need to provide any evidence for that 10 week period. you can see that they clarified those lines in version 5.........

what do you say.....we didnt observe this when we applied for review. thats the mistake we did.

ikon1400
Member
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:18 am

Post by ikon1400 » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:32 pm

Hi KCK

Now i gotcha man..

When i applied the review my first & prime target was to point the change in guidance & explain why i appluied even when i have a break in my payslips.

Now since you dint point out the differnce in guidance, i thnink they staright away rejected it. But as per the new guidance too you stand good for asking a Pro-rata calcualtion. Since you have valid reason for a change in country for a period.

I am still not sure what went wrong in your case.Do they want you to explain the guidance mismacth & request explicitly for a Pro-rata calcualtion?

I would suggest you to go for a complaint if you can fight it out :?:

Cheers
ikon

umanghere
Junior Member
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 5:07 am
Location: London

Post by umanghere » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:32 am

By complain if you mean Appeal-I am not sure it is worth it. I am told it takes between 6 months to an year to get a decision.I called up embassy and they told me this time frame.

It might be worth re-applying for EC if review has not worked and one think that I have some extra information/details to be provided along with previous application docs.

umang

SYH
BANNED
Posts: 2137
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:06 pm
Location: somewhere else now

Post by SYH » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:39 am

I don't understand how they can tell you by phone the review is rejected.
Did you make a request for review and followup or did you ask them how to get a review by phone???
IN any case, I guess your only option is to complain about the different guidance and that you applied with the understanding of the first one and the case worked used the revised version.

SYH
BANNED
Posts: 2137
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:06 pm
Location: somewhere else now

Post by SYH » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:40 am

I don't understand how they can tell you by phone the review is rejected.
Did you make a request for review and followup or did you ask them how to get a review by phone and they said don't bother???
IN any case, I guess your only option is to complain about the different guidance and that you applied with the understanding of the first one and the case worked used the revised version.

ikon1400
Member
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:18 am

Post by ikon1400 » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:54 am

SYH,

you made it clear that we can log a complaint higlighting the guidane mismatch. but finally if they have deicided something against the case, nothing can save us.
:wink:

Cheers
ikon

kck9
BANNED
Posts: 347
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:45 pm

Post by kck9 » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:18 am

They told the decision over the phone because of the floods in sheffield, the post was delayed and in the mean time we called what is happening, they said it has already been disptched.....

they told the decision, but they didnt tell the reason....after 2 days wait again when we called (as we haven't received the post bcas of floods) they passed the call to case worker and they said the reason as well..... (as it exceptional to be there in post for 4 days)

ofcourse next day we received the letter by post. now by seeing ikons case i realised there is a guidance notes change.....so i thought my cousin can give a try by making complaint.........hope there is no harm....

moreover he recently crossed the age band and lost 5 points, so to make a new application again he has to wait until he reach the threshold.

Thnx

ikon1400
Member
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:18 am

Post by ikon1400 » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:45 pm

Hi Kck

i would wish you to go for a complaint since there is very little chance for you now to re apply.

there is nothing to loose, also keep in mind the money you spent for this appliation.So go for it ,but put right things in right way and sound genuine and dont confuse or put contrasting statements.

Cheers
ikon

kck9
BANNED
Posts: 347
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:45 pm

Post by kck9 » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:59 pm

thnx for your ikon.......

can you send me the review letter that you have sent as a personal message or to my email id kck_k@hotmail.com

thnx in advance

Locked