ILR rejected due to tax issue

[vin123]

Thanks vin123 your answers are much appreciated. All the best for your future

Thanks to you too. I am glad that I could be of a small help!

[benneviss]

You might be right in saying that HO has no direct access to HMRC database , but HO already has a mandate to speak on your behalf through your application .

I believe that HMRC may have dedicated lines for HO and case worker using your NI or UTR number ask few questions about your tax history . If anything is contrary to your application then your application will be rejected .

It does not make any difference whether you are on employment or self-employment , they can check any one regardless of your status .

I had come across cases where application was rejected because employer did not pay any taxes or NI contributions on behalf of employee.

[vin123]

You might be right in saying that HO has no direct access to HMRC database , but HO already has a mandate to speak on your behalf through your application .

I believe that HMRC may have dedicated lines for HO and case worker using your NI or UTR number ask few questions about your tax history . If anything is contrary to your application then your application will be rejected .

It does not make any difference whether you are on employment or self-employment , they can check any one regardless of your status .

I had come across cases where application was rejected because employer did not pay any taxes or NI contributions on behalf of employee.

Hi
Once again, for your info - a case worker arrives at a decision based on documentation evidence and strength and merit of the applicant perceived from such documents.
UK Residential taxation evidence submitted (either via Permanent Employment, ltd company or self-employed) is very important in arriving at a positive decision. Proper documents means the applicant contributed to the economy in a positive way, which was the primary purpose of granting the permission to stay and work. If the case worker thinks there is enough evidence that the applicant has not paid tax - then it will negatively impact the decision.

Hence it is very important to get the tax papers right - so I would advise seek an accountants help in resolving the matter if you think you have not paid tax.

The decision to approve or reject an application is not based on "phone calls" on dedicated lines to other departments.

[great.britain]

Hi folks

There was a post by Gringo about the success of ILR at Croydon on 17 Jan 2013 titled Re: ILR success at Croydon 17 Jan 2014. He had some tax issues, but at the time of ILR he didn't submit his previous tax history documents. All he submitted was 12 months payslips and bank statements. Most importantly, he showed his employment earnings at the time of ILR, NOT self-employment.

As Gringo put it in the post, his ILR was approved even if there was a discrepancy between his expenses declared at the time of extension and later he paid less tax.

It seems true that the UKBA can by law access all information of an applicant. They can check with HMRC, Police, Department for Work and Pensions, NHS, etc. When these government departments exchange info about a person, they are not in breach of data protection act, as they are not making someone's info public. They use this info to make a decision on the application.

I reckon that HO always checks self-employed people's tax history. In case of an employed person, payslips contain the company's PAYE reference number which shows that the company has been paying its employees' tax. So, it doesn't make CW feel suspicious.

The wisest course of action for self-employed people would be to take all tax documents in order to support their case. In addition, employed individuals can only submit 12 months’ payslips and bank statements as Gringo did on 17 Jan 2014, and ILR was approved.

Cheers

Ali

[fn286]

Dear All who are engaged in this conversation,

I will try to cover maximum queries possible. First my request to Vin123 please don't misguide others ...please don't play with others future... may be you escaped trouble but it's not necessary others will escape too...All my suggestions are authentic and I have witnessed and experienced it myself...

Someone asked if Limited Company director is employed then why we need to submit company statements etc... that's a very good question... the answer is it's not an absolute requirement..but accountants suggest to send it for evidence to avoid delays ..because HO will ask for more documents if they have any doubts..and they have every right to do so... HO guys are so experience they can tell which case is genuine or fake by just holding the envelop/file. So in order to avoid delays and conufsion and get your visa issued in time...its always good to provide all relevant docs... specially in potal applications.. I personally know someone who only submitted salary slips and dividend voucher as limited company director (no company docs and statement)and he got visa...his case was solid...

Someone said HO doesn't have access to HMRC and DWP. I can guarantee you they have real time access to all departments. If you can call HMRC to find out details about your record, then why can't the authentic government body? BUT.... they don't call for every file. Only if they have little suspician.. and if they have strong doubts they defer your application and ask you to submit more HMRC documents if you don't have at that time at PEO. They have every right to check and contact others for verification and that's they clearly take your consent on the application form. Whenever they call HMRC they ask specific questions, such as they will give dates and check who was the employer, or salary etc... they cannot just ask HMRC officer your whole life histoy... they want to clear their doubts regarding your application ...unfortunately 99% doubts are related to earnings..that's why they introduce points on ILR... even if HO will reject you rILR you will have a right...get your tax record sorted with HMRC and apply again... its very easy to fix HMRC related matters before even applying... you can update record in back date as well... I did it once...

Please just avoid whatever vin123 is saying..this guy doesn't have enough knowledge... even if you prove this guy wrong he comes with illogical explanations to justify he said was right. I just worry someone might loss his career and life in UK listening to his advice. Self employed will always be scrtinised and its good to have all HMRC documents ready... Employed (limited company director) should also take good care.

[Manka10]

FYI, Declaration does not mean "consent to share" and "doubts" is basically on evidences you submit!!. So yes, they reject if they have doubts - and do not check other department records as they are legally not allowed to do so. Understood?

Really? you think you can totally comprehend how UKBA works? Looks like you are just making up stuff completely out of the whack without the slightest idea what you are talking about
Read below and burn it in your mind

I understand that my details may in certain circumstances be passed to other people, including fraud prevention agencies, to prevent and detect fraud, money laundering and other crimes. I also understand that the UK Border Agency may receive information about me.

Know how to read between the lines? the above declaration also means UKBA can ask for any info they want.

HO checks up with HMRC if the applicant has been paying tax if they are self-employed and there have been a number of cases where they denied extension/ILR if tax was not upto date as this means the person is not of good character.

You are just giving erroneous and misleading advice without any real world knowledge of how UKBA works, I have dealt with immigration advisers who speak directly to CWs for any clarification

Also UKBA never asks to submit any tax related document whether you are self-employed or not, these checks are carried out in the background and are a part of the application. CWs can do any checks if they want to verify any kind of information

[benneviss]

fan286 ,

Solid and really detail answer and I agree with you (except comments on Vin123 - as I do not believe in making comments to any individual behavior on this forum ) .

Yes , CW can ask for more details to any Government authority to clear his doubts and or also ask you to furnish the details .

After all the inputs I can now summaries that you must rectify your mistakes with HMRC before going for ILR.

And my friend was rightly advised by his solicitor to rectify his account , hopefully his appeal will be successful.

However , I would appreciate if someone could share his/her success story with similar background. ( i.e. self-employment at ILR stage as well )

[mrehanashraf]

It is not mule difficult as fn286 thinks. "self-employed" is a category that UKBA puts extension application.

Self-employed normally operates in 2 modes

a) via limited company (shareholders to take dividend income) OR
b) by registering themselves as self-employed and paying Class 2 NIC

Once again - its all down to how you "operated" and the proving the same by the relevant set of documents you take to UKBA office!

Simple rule

Company earns money - company pays tax (account statements filed at company house showing net profit)
You earn money (dividend + salary) - you pay tax ( self assessment )

Company belongs to you - show the same proof ! (contract documents)

You operated as self employed - you take a detailed account of income you generated for yourself (self-assessment copies) and the net tax you paid at the end of the financial year.


Rule of thumb : whether self-employed or limited company director : employ a good qualified accountant and make sure your company accounts(those who operate using limited company) OR trading income and accounts (in case of those self-employed) are properly book-keeped alongside your self-assessment!!. Self assessment is a MUST, otherwise you stand a big chance of rejection and there is no escape from it!!

Expenses

All business operations incur expenses. So HMRC allows an expense limit that you can claim on expenditures as long as it is genuinely attributable to the total revenue it generated.

For e.g if a contractor worked away from home at a rate of £250 per day and claiming a hotel expenditure at £125 per night is not attributable, however a £50 claim may be attributable. UKBA will scrutinised at that level ONLY if there is massive difference between income and net profit in the case of limited company or in the case of self-employment, expenses claimed in self-assessment and the net tax paid.

Hi Vin123,

Very helpful discussion. I have a question that if Someone is claiming Salary+Dividend for 12 months (Dec 2012 - Nov 2013) and Company year end is January every year. Then there is a chance that Company Accounts will not match the claimed period (Dec 2012 - Nov 2013) because claimed dividends can be from 2 years of company but lies with in 12 month claimed for visa.

What are your thoughts on this?
Thanks

[vin123]

Hi Vin123,

Very helpful discussion. I have a question that if Someone is claiming Salary+Dividend for 12 months (Dec 2012 - Nov 2013) and Company year end is January every year. Then there is a chance that Company Accounts will not match the claimed period (Dec 2012 - Nov 2013) because claimed dividends can be from 2 years of company but lies with in 12 month claimed for visa.

What are your thoughts on this?
Thanks

Correct. Some people may not always have company tax related account document showing net profit in time for your extension or ILR.
In such situation - all you need to do is demonstrate earnings in terms of cash flow .

By cash flow, I mean the the following

If you are operating via

A) a limited company - invoices paid copies and bank statements showing transaction into company bank account accounts
B) Perm employment - Payslips and personal bank statements
c) self employed - Class 2 NIC payment contribution, trade invoices and corresponding bank statements.

Case workers are trained to interpret such documents. So please make sure you take original copies of account statements available to the most recent date.

[vin123]

For all the folks here who think HO can "pick a phone" and verify your details - check the links below.
In UK, that is why we have laws and legislations. For for your info, such laws are applicable to government departments as well.

a) http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/29/contents

And now read the first line of declaration you sign.

I understand that all information provided by me to the Home Office will be treated in confidence.

[vin123]

Guys,

Its not complicated, you don't have to read a 5 paragraph essay to be successful with your application.

Idea is : Keep it Simple and Straightforward(KISS)

If "You work"....and "your work" tells about your status and the documents to take. If you take original documents, then it will help you. If the case worker gets suspicious, then he or she will not give you benefit of the doubt. He or she will give you one more chance to submit the correct documents, and if not - it will be rejected.

a) If you are permanently employed in a company - all you need is payslips, P60 and bank statements to show your taxable income.

b) if you are operating via a limited company shareholding or self-employed
you need
i) tax returns statement showing net profit and annual returns filed at companies house (applicable only if you have limited company) - certified from an accountant + company bank statements showing cash flow.
ii) personal Self-assessments tax return statement (applicable to both limited company and self-employed)
iii) personal bank statements (applicable to both )

[Wanderer]

For all the folks here who think HO can "pick a phone" and verify your details - check the links below.
In UK, that is why we have laws and legislations. For for your info, such laws are applicable to government departments as well.

a) http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/29/contents

And now read the first line of declaration you sign.

I understand that all information provided by me to the Home Office will be treated in confidence.

Section 40 UK Borders Act 2007 (UKBA07) permits HMRC to disclose information to the UK Border Agency (UKBA) for the purposes of “doing anything in connection with the exercise of immigration and nationality functions”.

[vin123]

For all the folks here who think HO can "pick a phone" and verify your details - check the links below.
In UK, that is why we have laws and legislations. For for your info, such laws are applicable to government departments as well.

a) http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/29/contents

And now read the first line of declaration you sign.

I understand that all information provided by me to the Home Office will be treated in confidence.

Section 40 UK Borders Act 2007 (UKBA07) permits HMRC to disclose information to the UK Border Agency (UKBA) for the purposes of “doing anything in connection with the exercise of immigration and nationality functions”.

Wanderer, Ah ! you are back
Section 40 Borders Act 2007 is still provisional Try hard, next time may be something will strike you.

By the way, which computer system you work within HMRC/UKBA that allows sharing of screens :

[vin123]

Hi folks

The wisest course of action for self-employed people would be to take all tax documents in order to support their case. In addition, employed individuals can only submit 12 months’ payslips and bank statements as Gringo did on 17 Jan 2014, and ILR was approved.

Cheers

Ali

That is a very good advise. If there is no P60 for the current year (for e.g you are going for appointment in the month of Feb) then Case worker would be happy to receive the last 6 months payslips + bank statements.

[fn286]

For all the folks here who think HO can "pick a phone" and verify your details - check the links below.
In UK, that is why we have laws and legislations. For for your info, such laws are applicable to government departments as well.

a) http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/29/contents

And now read the first line of declaration you sign.

I understand that all information provided by me to the Home Office will be treated in confidence.

Vin123.... I was laughing my a** out read this post from you. Clearly, you have never been in professional environment and I doubt you are even based in UK. You can't even understand simple plain english... I have no idea from where you copied this declaration because I'm looking application form for SET (O) page 55-57 and it clearly give permission to HO to do any verification checks they would feel necessary.

Mate, good luck with your delusions...

[vin123]

I'm looking application form for SET (O) page 55-57 and it clearly give permission to HO to do any verification checks they would feel necessary.

Mate, good luck with your delusions...

You yourself gave answer to your question !!!
In SET(O) where you are re not giving permission to HO to pick the phone and call another department

[fn286]

I'm looking application form for SET (O) page 55-57 and it clearly give permission to HO to do any verification checks they would feel necessary.

Mate, good luck with your delusions...

You yourself gave answer to your question !!!
In SET(O) where you are re not giving permission to HO to pick the phone and call another department

Mate... Please can I ask your profession... and qualification? No disrespect but I don't see any signs education and professional experience in you. Tesco, asda, chiken shop is your sky can't fly beyond that. still I wish you good luck.

You think HO cannot contact other depts by phone, fax, post etc ... Like many others I can guarantee HO have every right/consent/permission to contact HMRC by any means possible. YES They can pick up the phone and call HMRC. and Set o applictaion there is a declaration which I quoted.

One thing I could say that all readers are learning something from this concersation, never just listen to any body...just use brains...

[benneviss]

fan286 ,

As I said earlier , I do not like to make personal comments on anyone however time has come that the status on this forum should be given to members on the quality and not the quantity of their posts.

I know that would involve lot of admin work but adopting the above policy every member will earn their status by quality inputs. At least , admin could recall status given to the member if they think that the member inputs are misleading .

IRL guidance to caseworker makes it clear that they could check anything (i.e. tax records, NHS , Police , DVLA, credit check etc. ) . Now , some wonder why they do credit check , my answer to that it is just to check that you do not have CCJ, bankruptcy or unmanageable debt ( debt taken to deceive creditors or without any payment plan in place ) .

I assume that caseworker do not check everything as a matter of practice except Police records but they will do if they have suspicion.

[vin123]

For fn286 & benneviss' benefit

I must say (for the last time) that you are now throwing insults here when you read something that you don't like to read.
Please be advised to stay away from it.

Once again I say - you are the owner and custodian of your own personal data and information you provide to "anyone" , no matter it is UKBA or HRMC or any private company.

NO company, especially government departments are allowed to "play with" personal data by picking up phones and verifying the authenticity of the same when suspicions arises, without your prior permission.

By providing a signature you are consenting HO to use it, not share it - signed by a declaration means they will share it with other departments for law enforcement purposes, not for assessing merits or validating documents on a individual basis.

It is your responsibility to furnish accurate information, otherwise they will simply reject you, no phone calls, nothing. Period.

Now contribute or share something if you really have something to add to the title of this thread, i.e "ILR rejected to tax issue" rather than resorting to personal insults.

[MACY]

For fn286 & benneviss' benefit

I must say (for the last time) that you are now throwing insults here when you read something that you don't like to read.
Please be advised to stay away from it.

Once again I say - you are the owner and custodian of your own personal data and information you provide to "anyone" , no matter it is UKBA or HRMC or any private company.

NO company, especially government departments are allowed to "play with" personal data by picking up phones and verifying the authenticity of the same when suspicions arises, without your prior permission.

By providing a signature you are consenting HO to use it, not share it - signed by a declaration means they will share it with other departments for law enforcement purposes, not for assessing merits or validating documents on a individual basis.

It is your responsibility to furnish accurate information, otherwise they will simply reject you, no phone calls, nothing. Period.

Now contribute or share something if you really have something to add to the title of this thread, i.e "ILR rejected to tax issue" rather than resorting to personal insults.

@vin123 dude stop this nonsense and call it a day.. i have seen you in another thread as well arguing for no reason and its seriously irritating. Now for your information i have been to HO on PEO and i have seen a fax from HMRC in CW hands. So they can clearly check with hmrc where needed. Yes they don't check it all the time but where they have suspicion. So my request to you is please keep things simple. Your problem is you can't accept defeat and you keep arguing. Sometimes you could be wrong and accepting it wont make you less than human. We all learn even case workers make blunders and its normal. its a human thing, So seriously man chill out please do not argue. For others please sort out your taxes pay them as you declared that you will pay by the time. Its value for money do not take risk and sort your things out no matter what it takes. I am seriously irritated after reading useless arguments, accept it that you could be wrong. I hope you get my point.

[Amber]

I am reminding members to respect each other, if not, you'll face going on thin ice, possibly with a limited ban.

The UKVI can quite easily contact the HMRC to make tax enquiries and authenticate wage slips etc... This is done routinely. The UKVI will also report any circumstances they deem relevant to the HMRC, you accept this when you sign the application consent form. Sharing information between governmental departments is very common.

Section 21 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999, however, is unchanged and provides the legal power for the UK Border Agency to provide information to HMRC for use for “Customs purposes” [section 1 of this IDI]. The UK Border Agency can otherwise rely on its common law powers to share information with HMRC, subject to the conditions of the Data Protection and Human Rights Acts [section 1 of this IDI].

In the majority of cases HMRC will be seeking information from the UK Border Agency in relation to the investigation of criminal offences. The exemption at section 29 of the DPA may therefore be relevant, but as mentioned above care must be taken when seeking to rely on this exemption, which must be applied on a case by case basis. In particular, the requirement to meet a condition under Schedule 2 of the DPA (and possibly also Schedule 3) must always be met even if an exemption applies (other than the s28 national security exemption). In respect of practical arrangements, enquiries from HMRC should be dealt with in the same way as police enquiries.

and

The Anti-Terrorism Crime and Security Act 2001 ensures that any statutory or other restriction on disclosure does not prevent the disclosure by HMRC of information for certain purposes including commencing, conducting and discontinuing criminal investigations and proceedings, provided that the making of the disclosure is proportionate to what is sought to be achieved by it. The process for making requests for information under ATCSA is also covered in the Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) between HMRC and the UK Border Agency.

and

Section 40 of the 2007 Act consolidates the two existing powers for HMRC to share information with the UK Border Agency. Section 40 sets out the specific purposes for which HMRC officials can now share information with the UK Border Agency.
All information received from HMRC is now subject to a statutory duty of confidentiality (section 41 of the 2007 Act) and wrongful disclosure of HMRC information is a criminal offence (section 42 of the 2007 Act). Staff can be individually prosecuted for breach of the new statutory duty of confidentiality attached to HMRC information. Conviction for wrongful disclosure of HMRC information carries a maximum penalty of up to 2 years imprisonment and an unlimited fine. For this reason there are special handling procedures for HMRC information [see section 1 & MoU]. However there are certain circumstances in which staff may still disclose HMRC information e.g. where necessary for an immigration appeal. [For more details on this gateway & criminal penalty see section 1 of this IDI]
These new powers were commenced on 31 January 2008.

[vin123]

@Amber

With due respect - I have been a member of this forums since 2002, and all I try is help people.

I respect everyone and do not throw insult on people, and what I contribute here is based on my personal experience. Hence I am very clear on the fact personal data protection is something UKBA ensure, i.e no information is shared or sent outside of UKBA without appropriate measures,

As you can see, personal insult thrown for no reasons (saying I am butcher, asda worker etc) when someone reads something that they do not like and sometimes I just can't help myself from reciprocating to such insults. Hope you understand that.

As you have shown clearly shown in your post, there are specific circumstances and law allows HMRC, UKBA, FCO , Police, etc to share information. Such circumstances has clear mandates. It is not done for every personal application UKBA recieves. Case Worker does not give a benefit of doubt and is required to follow strict guidelines when such cases arise.

Hope that clarifies.

[Amber]

Vin123. I made no reference to you individually so don't be paranoid. I am just saying in general. And yes there has to be a reasonable justification to check details. However, if you've stated you earn x amount on an application, it would be reasonable for the UKVI to check this with the HMRC if for example, figures don't match or you are contradicting yourself.

[CharleyS]

Hi Vin123,

I have been browsing this forum and the similar threads on the same matter. Thanks for your advises it makes sense based on a few cases of my friends I know that got rejected due to insufficient documentation.

I have a question, if you could please share some thoughts:

I got 2 year extension in April 2012 and my ILR is due this March.
When I got my extn I was on perm employment and now I am contracting using a limited company since June 2012. I was paid a salary of £58K in perm employment, but with contracting - yearly income is considerably high since I am paid on daily rates.

For the last 2 years I am not sure about my tax situation, I was out of contract work in last year 2013 for about 3 months. I have an accountant but he is not really helpful and there is a secretary lady in his office and from her I am getting payslips and P60 sent every quarter from his office.

Could you please comment on my situation. Please advise - what are the docs to take for PEO for ILR

Thanks,

Charley

[vin123]

Hi

Your case looks straight forward, no complication. Please do the following.

In time for your ILR PEO appointment, make sure you have the following documents in tact.

For company

a) call the accountant and make sure he has filed HMRC Statutory tax returns.
This will be showing the net profit of the company. Also, he will do Company House Accounts Returns. This will cover the period of your contract started i.e starting from June 2012 to March 2014. Technically - you will have 2 financial year statements. Please make sure you speak to your accountant and take the copies of such statements on an accountant's official letter head.

b) Original Copies of company bank statements showing cash flow(if you don't have it - you can call the bank re-order it). Please make sure you take the statement summary (if available) otherwise statements from period from June 2012 to most recent.

c) copies of contract signed by the company that shows your daily rates


For yourself

a) Self assessment Tax return for tax year ending March 2013. This will cover the period June 2012 to March 2013.

b) P60s (last 2 FYs) and last 6 months wage slips

c) Dividend slips - if available

d) Personal bank account statement - originals.


Hope that helps. Good luck!