Updates on Zambrano applications

[appealalready]

Hi wiggsy,

You can win a derivative right based on human rights. Winning a derivative residence card based on human rights will not lead to permanent residence.

The best option for permanent residence is to acquire Family Leave to Remain. I filed my FLR(O) and am waiting for the decision by the Home Office. With FLR(O) status, I will qualify for permanent residence.

[appealalready]

Dear ada4msd,

Regarding case law, you may want to consider:

Razgar v SSHD (2004)
ZH (Tanzania) v SSHD (2011)
Omotunde - best interests Zambrano applied (2011)
Article 20 of the TFEU

[ada4msd]

Dear ada4msd,

Regarding case law, you may want to consider:

Razgar v SSHD (2004)
ZH (Tanzania) v SSHD (2011)
Omotunde - best interests Zambrano applied (2011)
Article 20 of the TFEU

Hi appealalready, thanks for the caselaws, I know about these ones, still doing my reasearch and practice about writing the appeal bundle. If you represent yourself do you need to write the appeal bundle to send to the court and HO, or do you just need to send in your supplementary evidences. Have not heard anything from them yet, though the fees have gone out of my account.
You said you have applied for FLR O, if you succeed in the FLR O application, which I know you will, cos Zambrano is even more difficult, will the HO cancel the DRC or they will allow both (DRC and DLR) to run concurrently.
Thanks once again for your response, well appreciated.

[dalebutt]

I do not think the FLRO and DRC will run concurrently, the appellant will only receive Flr O, because if that was the case it will expressly go against their doctrine and perverse thought of all immigrants came here to claim benefit, the human right stay is as useless as not having any residence permit, if I was in a situation where I'd have to be given that residence permit I will gladly refuse it and move to my country.

ILR is only obtainable after 10 years, NO PUBLIC FUNDS as boldly written on it means nothing from student loan to JSA and Unemployment benefit, even if the holder has worked for 4 years and unfortunately loose their jobs, they will be entitled to nothing? having paid taxes for the past 4 years? legalised enslavement? get the immigrants to work and pay taxes and when they need help we shall turn our back on them, No student loans means they cannot be educated and can only be subjected to do menial jobs which is the purpose they came here to serve.

[ada4msd]

Hello peeps, i have a question which is: can i put in an FLR O (flr fp) application with fee waiver when I have an outstanding appeal based on zambrano. So confused.
All responses/suggestions are welcomed.

[ada4msd]

Hi dalebutt, thanks for the response, personally i think granting one a stay based on Human Right is still better than than not having any stay at all. At least with human right stay, one can work and travel in and out of the country. To be honest, with a good job you don't need the 'benefits'.

[dalebutt]

what if you lost that good job and you were unable to secure another in time? you can only have good job when you have education, what about the immigrants with no education who wanted to further their education to be better placed in the community? Are you thinking of yourself alone and not consider their are thousands of people whose opportunity in life are different to yours? I am not advocating for benefit I am stating the obvious no fairness in the system. Rubbish.

[ada4msd]

what if you lost that good job and you were unable to secure another in time? you can only have good job when you have education, what about the immigrants with no education who wanted to further their education to be better placed in the community? Are you thinking of yourself alone and not consider their are thousands of people whose opportunity in life are different to yours? I am not advocating for benefit I am stating the obvious no fairness in the system. Rubbish.

Hi dalebutt, you are entitled to your opinion. Neither am I talking about self nor being selfish, I still maintain my stance, no immigrant came here with benefit in mind, the primary thing an immigrant wants is a STAY whether human right or not, then other things follow. what of those that have been in limbo for years hiding from their shadow, do you want to tell me that collecting benefit is in their mind? Nobody prays to loose a job and everybody wants a better life I agree, but my dear, first things first.

[dalebutt]

I wasn't stating anything about having an opinion or not, typical stereotypical garbage, no immigrant came to the UK for benefit blah blah, I don't need be told that one, only an idiot will think someone left their country solely to come to another country and live on peanut and be satisfied, I have been to several European countries, whose government officials aren't shouting to the world come see us, we've the best human right record ever, but yet quietly acknowledging, and respecting the rights of immigrants within their shores. UK started this Flor O you are shouting about few years ago, I know a lot of European countries who have been doing this for years and years back.

2 Months ago I visited one of these countries where my friend has the equivalent to UK's Flr O, he lost his job, and he was perfectly entitled to claim unemployment benefit, it is the only humane thing to do, where does the taxes from these immigrants goes? To support the Brits who are claiming benefit or to start another war.

And I no not agree with your claim that all immigrant want is a "STAY", I would expect only a person with a very limited ambition to say the only thing they want is a chance to stay in the UK because the roads are made of gold, a typical immigrant will wish to have the opportunity to compete with the Brits as well.

In many other European countries, when you have their Flor O, you can get student loans, apprenticeship, you can equip yourself and compete in the labour market.

[ada4msd]

For your friend, lucky him. Atleast you have the ''papers'' to go and visit your
friend in another country, right?

[appealalready]

Hello peeps, i have a question which is: can i put in an FLR O (flr fp) application with fee waiver when I have an outstanding appeal based on zambrano. So confused.
All responses/suggestions are welcomed.

I did, but apparently you aren't supposed to.

[appealalready]

@dalebutt,

You can't get access to benefits with a derivative residence card. You can with a residence card. You can also access benefits with an FLR(O) stamped recourse to public funds.

I agree that the UK's laws go against the spirit and law in the EU. I wonder when the European Court of Justice will confront the UK.

I believe that Bhatia Best Solicitors are challenging the denial of housing benefit to Zambrano carers.
Michael Bates, Solicitorm is challenging the denial of job seekers allowance to Zambrano carers.
Both cases are in the Court of Appeal.

[dalebutt]

Thanks appealalready, I didn't know some certain Flr O's can access public funds, a friend of mine just received the one who says NO PUBLIC FUNDS boldly written on it, he approached the student loan company who says he is not entitled, I imagine quite a number who are in the same position.

[GREAT FULL]

Hi,
@ dale what do you suggest that people do ? Because even derivative residence card has
no recourse to public funds and so is the FLRO . People will go for the human rights flro in the hope that gthey may one day get a permanent residence I do appreciate it is a long time but things do change and who knows what will happen tomorrow. Laws keep on changing.
I agree with asmd because people will rather have something to legalise their stay than not having at all. Benefits is a plus but stay is even better for me anyway and I believe anyone who have been living in fear and destitution because of no documents.
@appealready the recourse to public funds flro you are referring to is giving in very very very rare circumstances and it is like pulling teeth . I personally have not seen one, I have seen many with the extremely large capitals letters saying NO RECOURSE TO PUBLIC FUNDS. I think if it was thst easy to get people will go for it but hey you might be among the fortunate ones.Also did you read the visa switching option when you have the DRC? Can you just switch to the flrfp?


For those who were claiming child benefit before applying for their flr did you stop claiming before putting in your application.
thank you all

[GREAT FULL]

I do not think the FLRO and DRC will run concurrently, the appellant will only receive Flr O, because if that was the case it will expressly go against their doctrine and perverse thought of all immigrants came here to claim benefit, the human right stay is as useless as not having any residence permit, if I was in a situation where I'd have to be given that residence permit I will gladly refuse it and move to my country.

ILR is only obtainable after 10 years, NO PUBLIC FUNDS as boldly written on it me
ans nothing from student loan to JSA and Unemployment benefit, even if the holder has worked for 4 years and unfortunately loose their jobs, they will be entitled to nothing? having paid taxes for the past 4 years? l

Actually you can claim JSA but contribution based.yeah I know not great

No student loans means they cannot be educated and can only be subjected to do menial jobs which is the purpose they came here to serve.

I beg to differ , I studied in this country so did many without recourse to student loans , I know people with degrees and masters doing menial jobs not because of lack of education but because they are illegal they cannot "compete with the brits" .

[appealalready]

Hi Guys,

@dalebutt,

You are correct. Very few people get recourse to public funds and those who do usually stay quiet about it. If you ask the Home Office, they are pretty unlikely to say yes, even if you are destitute. There is a loophole, however. If you apply for FLR(O) with a fee waiver and that fee waiver is accepted, you are to be granted Family Leave to Remain with recourse to public funds. They don't have a choice.

@Great Full,

They run concurrently. A derivative residence card is an EU level right, whereas family leave to remain is a UK right. I will try to find the Freedom of Information act request in which The Home Office says so and paste the link.

The existence of two concurrently bothers the UK. That is why so many people are being rejected for a derivative residence card. The UK does not like being told who to accept through its borders. The rejections are effectively political in nature, and not because people didn't prove they qualify (in many cases). That is why, I predict that if the UK abandons the European Convention on Human Rights, many derivative card holders will lose their status. Many are winning on human rights grounds only, and failing to challenge the First Tier Tribunal on their refusal to award a right to reside based on the Zambrano, Chen, Singh category.

From: European Operational Policy Enquiries UK Border Agency
7 January 2013
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... sidency_an

Per the Home Office, "It is possible for a person to have a right of residence under EU law and to also have a valid grant of leave under the Immigration Rules at the same time."

[appealalready]

Hi wiggsy,

You can win a derivative right based on human rights. Winning a derivative residence card based on human rights will not lead to permanent residence.

The best option for permanent residence is to acquire Family Leave to Remain. I filed my FLR(O) and am waiting for the decision by the Home Office. With FLR(O) status, I will qualify for permanent residence.

One person's comments on this article, found here:

http://www.freemovement.org.uk/2013/10/ ... tion-bill/

"In my opinion the SSHD is unlikely to lament the increase in human rights arguments and judicial review as that will play into her long term plans – reform / repeal of the Human Rights Act, withdrawal from ECHR and reform (read decimation) of judicial review. I suspect that a short term rush of human rights appeals is just what she feels she needs as that will enable her to blame the HRA / ECHR for the problems that she is creating (ooops telling the country she is trying to solve)."

Another comment:

"At the moment, contrary to the fantasies of Theresa May and Paul Dacre, human rights arguments are the last resort of any decent lawyer. Human rights applications will always be refused by the Home Office and without rules to guide, the outcome on appeal is a lottery. Anyone sensible will seek to fit their case within the Immigration Rules."

[njyildum1]

Please can someone give me some more information please. Can someone please let me know what it means when UKBA ( a case worker) ask for more documents? Does it mean my application is about to be finalised? How long do you think after sending the documents will it take to hear from then?

Application Received by UKBA: 14/01/2014
Biometrics Received by Me: 29/01/2014 Dated 27/01/2014
Biometrics Done: 29/01/2014
Asked for Additional Documents: 07/02/2014 Dated 04/02/2014

Additional documents required.

-Passport of Son
-Passport of ex partner
-If the child does not reside with you then you need a letter from you gp explaining that you are listed as an emergency contact of the child and that you are involved with the child.
- A letter from your ex partner saying you are no longer in a relationship and explaining when and how you are involved with the child.

I sent in all the extra documents asked for. And the letter came straight from the case worker and I sent all the documents to the case worker as required.

Has anyone had this experience before? As I have sent in all the extra documents the case worker asked for do you think I am guaranteex to be granted Leave to Remain as Parent of a British Child? How long do you think it will take to hear back from UKBA? I sent the documents straight to the case worker dealing with my application as requested.

[netqueen]

I would to know when the UK visa officials fail to issue a COA replacement or the residence card within the 6 months time limit can one involve solveit if it involves a Zambrano application or not.
Or better still issue a pre action for judicial review any suggestions or ideas please !!!
trying to help a friend here

thanks

[appealalready]

1.)Expediting an EU residence card application
http://www.freemovement.org.uk/2014/02/ ... plication/

It is possible to request expedition of an EU residence card application where it has been outstanding for over three months. See the European Casework Instructions at Chapter 10 for details. There are also other potential justifications for speeding things up, including being unable to make journeys necessary for compassionate or business reasons on existing documents, being elderly (i.e. 65 or over) and showing that an EEA document is needed for a particular job.

2.) Your MP
http://www.ukpolitical.info/YouandyourMP.htm

How does your MP deal with problems?
Where your problem does involve central government, your MP has a number of methods available to try to resolve the matter. A letter from your MP to the relevant department or official will often provide a solution.
Many constituents' problems can be solved in this way but not all problems, of course, have an easy solution. The Minister may not be able to give the answer that you wanted to hear but if the decision has been made in the right way, there may be little that can be done. If, on the other hand, there has been unnecessary delay, or if some essential procedure has been missed out, i.e. if there has been maladministration, your MP may be able to take your case to the Ombudsman (Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration).

He or she is sometimes able to resolve such cases where there has been administrative incompetence. The Ombudsman can only be approached via your MP, you cannot approach him directly.

3.) Pre Action Protocol Letter
Before starting JR action the claimant should send a standard format letter – letter before claim - to the defendant giving a clear account of the decision being challenged and a summary of the facts on which the claim will be made. Letters before claim should be addressed to the Judicial Review Unit (JRU).

the JRU email address is UKBAPAP@UKBA.gsi.gov.uk or fax the letter to JRU on 020 8196 3526

It is important for caseworkers to bear in mind when dealing with PAPs that if the UK Border Agency does not respond to a PAP - or responds to the PAP but does not settle the dispute and then subsequently settles, the Court will take that into account in deciding costs and will normally order the Agency to pay both sides costs. It is therefore important that PAPs are dealt with in a timely and appropriate manner.

[netqueen]

Thanks for this appealalready.
although I must add our MP even though is labour I think will not get involved in our case. Have tried previously and only got a letter from capita instead asking us to go home, no mention of our British child.

[njyildum1]

I submitted an application as Parent of a British Child. My application timeline:

Application Received By UKBA: 14/01/2014
Biometrics Letter Received by me: 29/01/2014 Dated: 27/01/2014
Biometrics submitted to UKBA: 29/01/2014
Extra documents required by case worker: Letter Dated: 4/02/2014 Received by me: 07/02/2014
Sent Extra Documents: 07/02/2014
Received by UKBA: 10/02/2014

The case worker who wrote me asking for extra documents also stated that he/she intends to deal with my application promptly if I submitted documents before 18/02/2014 which I did.

I haven't heard anything from UKBA and its Month end today. What does the case worker mean by promptly? What time frame am I looking at before I hear from them?

Subsequently, I am not required to be in a relationship with the mother of my baby which I am not as far as immigration Law is concerned because I have not been in a relationship with her for up to two years.

I sent a letter as part of the extra documents signed by the mother of my baby saying we are not in a relationship even though we live at the same address.

My question is; Will UKBA make checks on my address and find that we live together? Will UKBA expect me to have explained why we live together? If UKBA finds that we live together or finds that we are a linked to one address will they automatically deny my application solely on that or ask for explanation from me? If I am denied solely on the basis that myself and the mother of my baby are linked to same address without asking for an explanation will that not mean that UKBA's reason for denial is very weak?

Subsequently, I have already booked my ticket to travel because I had earlier on sent in an application (which was returned invalid for using the not up to date form) in November 2013 which is when I booked my ticket with the hope that I had enough time for my application to be decided. Can I write UKBA asking for a speedy decision and explain my situation which has a lot to do with my mums health abroad? What are the chances that UKBA will heed my request?

Note: My student visa expired 15/10/2013 and I put in my first application which was received by the UKBA 4/11/2013. It was returned with a letter dated 11/12/2013 as invalid. I re-submitted another application received by the UKBA 14/01/2014. The period between 11/12/2013 and 14/01/2014 is more 28 days. Does this mean I am considered as an overstayer? Will that have any effect on my application?

[dluv]

[quote="njyildum1"]I submitted an application as Parent of a British Child. My application timeline:
Hi ya, pls i need your advice. My visa expires in 3weeks time and want to apply for leave to remain as a parent to a british child. what form do i need to fill and documents required.

thanks

[appealalready]

Hi Netqueen,

You can also ask your MP to refer you to the Parliamentary Omubdsman. The Parliamentary Ombudsman can look into maladministration on your behalf.
Your MP can also refer you to the Bar Pro Bono Unit.

If your MP won't help you, I suggest you email the Labour party and tell them. http://www.labour.org.uk/contact

[Topsibelle]

I received my COA sometimes in Nov 2013. I applied for provisional driving licence with the COA and my passport, I received it within a month. I also applied for child benefits in Jan and did get it backdated for a month. I'm waiting for the outcome of my child tax credit and working tax credit.

I applied for my Zambrano on the 22/10/2013 still within the 6 months window so I'm sitting pretty. All my documents have been returned to me. I will be stating a M.Sc degree in Sept and I will be taking bursary as I'm entitled as EEA. I'm not worried as I'm ready to slug it out with HO in court.

Hope this will encourage people who are scared and worried of what to do next.