deception ILR refused

[jayacpr]

I am tensed about my ILR , please guys pray for me .

[Chase53]

I am tensed about my ILR , please guys pray for me .

When are you applying?

[Go12]

One more thing ,
My friend just did his 2nd extension and he has an argument
That even in 2nd extension,details about his initial apllication ,his tax returns till date were also checked by HO.
He said that 2nd extensions he was really scrutinised by HO ,he applied this year ,he was called for an interview and
Then told all is good with his application .

[hellonewhere]

I am tensed about my ILR , please guys pray for me .

@Cs95tdg and Char - thank you both

Jaya, why are you tense?

Is it because the company has been dissolved?

Edit:
I have read back on the thread and you stated that you have payslips from your time of employment and the company has been dissolved.

Please don't panic and don't get stressed.

If you can answer yes to these, there would be no issues;

1) were you in genuine employment?
2) do you have your payslips, P60s and P45 which demonstrates the tax and NIC deductions?

That's all you need.

Whether or not your employer has paid the PAYE over to HMRC isn't your responsibility; you won't get penalised for it.
Think about it for a minute - why should HMRC penalise you if your employer didn't hand over the PAYE they took from you?.

It's the same as if you are a customer and has paid for a goods and the shop has charged you the VAT and didn't hand it over to HMRC. HMRC isn't going to chase after you; after all you paid it. It's not your responsiblity to ensure that it's paid over to the revenue.

I have a client who hasn't paid PAYE ( money issues ) to HMRC for a year now; HMRC is chasing the business and not the employees.

Please keep calm.

[jayacpr]

yes, i worked for them in 2010 nov or oct till march 2011 , the company dissolved in 2012 . just seen as i said after seeing this post .

[hellonewhere]

yes, i worked for them in 2010 nov or oct till march 2011 , the company dissolved in 2012 . just seen as i said after seeing this post .

Jaya, thousands of companies dissolves everyday; you shouldn't worry about it.

[jayacpr]

i just have pay slips , nothing else

[hellonewhere]

i just have pay slips , nothing else

Does your payslip show that you paid the tax and NI?

Can you call HMRC and request for your missing P60 etc?.

[hellonewhere]

@ Jaya - if you can't call HMRC, can you walk into your local jobcentre and ask them to request it for you?

Take your ID and NI etc and payslip with you, am sure they can request it for you.

[argus7]

i just have pay slips , nothing else

Was this full time or part time employment. Do you have their PAYE ref? It should be on P45 if they gave you after leaving employment.

Did you file a tax return for this employment as PAYE? Call HMRC for Employment history,

[argus7]

i just have pay slips , nothing else

Does your payslip show that you paid the tax and NI?

Can you call HMRC and request for your missing P60 etc?.

AFAIK, HMRC cannot provide a replacement or missing P60 , its called Statement of earnings and comes only from the employer like a P60 or a P45.

[hellonewhere]

i just have pay slips , nothing else

Does your payslip show that you paid the tax and NI?

Can you call HMRC and request for your missing P60 etc?.

AFAIK, HMRC cannot provide a replacement or missing P60 , its called Statement of earnings and comes only from the employer like a P60 or a P45.

Thanks for that. I appreciate.
As I mentioned on page 2 of this thread, I have never requested for one myself and there's a sticky on the forum somewhere regarding missing P60 etc.

I am happy to be corrected. That goes to show I really should transfer over to payroll and learn a little lol.

Normally, when I call HMRC for missing info such as P60 for clients whilst doing tax returns, I just give the details of the client and get it over the phone. I have never requested a physical one.

[Bri2015]

Hi Everyone,

Does home office had all copies / scanned of payslips that I provided in 2010 when I get my initial T1 General.

Thank you.

[smeer123]

Hi Everyone,

Does home office had all copies / scanned of payslips that I provided in 2010 when I get my initial T1 General.

Thank you.

Yes dey do ve all scanned....n also dey keep ur application form.....so dey kno wat exactly u told dem through tht form mate.....

[askhan]

Hi Everyone,

Does home office had all copies / scanned of payslips that I provided in 2010 when I get my initial T1 General.

Thank you.

Answering your query with yes or no is bit difficult. But I do have a logical point if someone agree to it.

When you submit the initial application with your payslips showing 40K (assuming the tax and NI is been paid already on 40K) and then the company is busted or dissolved it doesn't matter as long as the records are reflecting as you mentioned.

After 5 years if you go for ILR, they will check the tax history for initial application which if you claim for 40K and pay tax on 40K, I am 99% sure they would not dig on individual payslips to check again if they were genuine or to see if the company is LIVE .

BUT, if you claim 40K in payslip and tax was paid on 20K then definitely they will dig the payslip and enquire the company as well.

Same goes to Self Employment.

If you claim 80K in first application and tax is been paid accurately, and then in ILR they will check the amount claimed and tax paid. they will will jump to another year, but again if the tax is only paid on 40K then all the invoices and tax return will be scrutinised.

Take a example, Comet Plc is now closed and so if a person has claimed 20K in first application on their payslip the HO will only check the history on HMREV, they will not call the company now as this check was already done when he applied before.

Hope thsi helps.

[jayacpr]

@Akhan , thank you
but the point is that , what if the company doesn't pay the tax which has deducted in our payslip ,in the given example of yours , when you earn 40 k from a company , but with out paying tax , they dissolve the company ????
whats the situation then??

[askhan]

@Akhan , thank you
but the point is that , what if the company doesn't pay the tax which has deducted in our payslip ,in the given example of yours , when you earn 40 k from a company , but with out paying tax , they dissolve the company ????
whats the situation then??

My Colleague who is British, recently had this issue, he received a call from HMRC and they told him to pay 3K in taxes because the company didn't pay his taxes.

He literally told them on the phone, its not my issue as I was employed. They asked him to send this is in writing and attached the last payslip.

he received a confirmation and since then all quite. For PAYE you can ask HMRC to provide you the history of all the employment and if there is a Gap you must inform them.

[jayacpr]

Thank A khan ,
if i send pay slips like your friend to hmrc , will they accept which was 5 yrs ago ,

[askhan]

Thank A khan ,
if i send pay slips like your friend to hmrc , will they accept which was 5 yrs ago ,

Jay,

I am confused, why are you sending the payslip to them, my friend submitted only because HMREV asked him to pay the tax.

In your case, situation is YOU'RE NOT SURE if the tax is paid or not ? I would strongle suggest to get all the employment and tax record from HMREV first before you take any further steps.

[hellonewhere]

@Akhan , thank you
but the point is that , what if the company doesn't pay the tax which has deducted in our payslip ,in the given example of yours , when you earn 40 k from a company , but with out paying tax , they dissolve the company ????
whats the situation then??

My Colleague who is British, recently had this issue, he received a call from HMRC and they told him to pay 3K in taxes because the company didn't pay his taxes.

He literally told them on the phone, its not my issue as I was employed. They asked him to send this is in writing and attached the last payslip.

he received a confirmation and since then all quite. For PAYE you can ask HMRC to provide you the history of all the employment and if there is a Gap you must inform them.

Funnily enough, that's exactly what I said on page 2 of this thread.
Your friend will be fine.

[argus7]

There used to be a process HMRC updated Employment history , But they used to refer to a P46 and P45. I am not sure how things have changed since RTI in 2013

One thing is for sure with HO , if an employer has paid an employee (applicant) with NI and tax deductions HO will check that and if no record found they will use 322(2) deception, even if there is no fault of the applicant because HMRC has got no data from P46/45 and the tax code.

And I don't think that can be challenged in the court according to the new ILR refusal guidance being published.

[4s6s]

There used to be a process HMRC updated Employment history , But they used to refer to a P46 and P45. I am not sure how things have changed since RTI in 2013

One thing is for sure with HO , if an employer has paid an employee (applicant) with NI and tax deductions HO will check that and if no record found they will use 322(2) deception, even if there is no fault of the applicant because HMRC has got no data from P46/45 and the tax code.

And I don't think that can be challenged in the court according to the new ILR refusal guidance being published.

Really?? They would pin that on the applicant even when its not his/her fault?? So you reckon nothing can be done about it and the applicant has to accept whatever the decision UKBA makes???

And what do you mean by being published..?? You already knew the guidelines before they got out...???

[jayacpr]

when is your ILR date @4s6s??

[4s6s]

when is your ILR date @4s6s??

Not booked a date yet. Its in August this year.

[hellonewhere]

Don't know about the guidelines of HO being published etc; however, what argus said about the HO rejecting an application is most probably correct. That's just common sense because if HO check with HMRC and there is no record of any PAYE having been paid, obviously they will take the view that the employment wasn't genuine.

I will repeat myself and what some others have said

1) if you have been in an employment and regardless of whether or not the the company is dissolved, contact HMRC to confirm that you are up to date with your tax payments and NIC

2) if it transpires that your ex-employer didn't hand over the PAYE to HMRC, but you have your payslips demonstrating that your employer deducted it from your salary, write to HMRC and send them the copy of your payslips and get it confirmed in writing that you did your part and regardless of whether or not your employer paid it to HMRC, that's not your responsibility as an employee

3) argus also mentioned that you can get a statement of earnings from HMRC, in case if you are missing your P60 or P45, please request this from HMRC

4) Get a confirmation from HMRC that you as an employee paid your NIC

5) When you go for your ILR, take all these confirmation letters with you and there is less chance of being refused on grounds of deception etc.

It's better to be prepared than to get a negative outcome because you didn't do your due diligence.

Instead of focusing what checks HO is or isn't going to do, it's better to get all your affairs in the right order and make your application with the knowledge that everything you provided was correct.