ILR OLD WORK PERMIT HOLDERS EARNINGS REQUIREMENT

[geriatrix]

Guys went back and talked to two different sources..

- Another Lawyer...he confirms unless ur on the point based system the changes doesnt effect you. Old work permit is not impacted by these changes.

- Called up UKBA helpline - the moment I said WP ...ILR she jumped and said the new system is for Tier1 and 2 and other point baised systems. not for Workpermit holders. Only the Criminality clause is applicable not the "income requirement". From the way she jumped at the answers before I completed my question... I am guessing they are getting a lot of calls regarding this.

I am pretty much getting a positive feeling. Also I feel UKBA is not that dumb as to make such changes because it won't survive any arguments in the court and they don't want the shame of having to roll back again as they did for HSMP JR.

I would suggest some of us call up again to the UKBA helpline and see if they are getting the consistent reply and post it on the forum. I am definitely going to give a couple of calls again to see what kind of answers I get.

Cheers
Amit

Not all solicitors are competent in the work they do. Likewise, UKBA staff is known to offer incorrect and /or out-of-date advice.

If you believe that a document (Statement of changes in immigration rules) tabled in the parliament is not worth trusting, and that one should trust solicitors that you have had advice from or the UKBA customer support staff .... I really don't know what to say!

[Akartikeyan]

Not all solicitors are competent in the work they do. Likewise, UKBA staff is known to offer incorrect and /or out-of-date advice.

If you believe that a document (Statement of changes in immigration rules) tabled in the parliament is not worth trusting, and one should trust solicitors that you have had advice from or the UKBA customer support staff .... I really don't know what to say!

HiSushdemehta,

I am not at all suggesting we trust the solicitors or the UKBA staff...but if we try to talk to as many ppl as possible and if we get some consistent replies then i guess there mst be some value to it.

Also, I am still skeptical but like everyone I just felt good when i get some positive replies. I am still going to keep on talking and asking questions. Hopefully the answers are as consistent as I am getting so far.

Also not that the changes are due from tomorrow I am guessing UKBA support staff would have got some kind of directions on the queries they are getting.

Like i said let us all keep talking to lawyers, experts, UKBA and post the responses we get. So whatever is consistent we go with it anyways, I will be applying in a weeks time So u will defntly hear from me.

cheers

[SNG]

Link you posted says – " The codes of practice for these are currently being updated. For the moment, you should use the 2010/11 codes of practice published on the UK government web archive."

So it is the old COP. And even if you meet the income requirement now, there is no certainty that you will once the COP is updated.

Has anyone tried to email UKBA to say that the COP is wrong? They have instructions at the bottom of the page. I looked at the COP for my occupation (2112 - biological scientist/biochemist) and the salaries are consistent with my industry, as far as job adverts go. But if you think the COP for your occupation is wrong, you should contact them with evidence (e.g. in a previous poster's case, I think "IT manager" could mean different things, have different job descriptions in different companies).

Hi all,

What worries me even further is that the COP is not on ukba website, we are only referring to the old cop and if they further increase the salary how would we cope up already they are looking for 100 to 200 percent salary raise.

see the link below for the COP

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/emplo ... fpractice/

New COP- list on the right side of the page.
can any one tell what is the difference to two types of the lists?

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/emplo ... e/#header1

[SNG]

@Sushdmehta:

I couldn't find anything in that paper & also couldn't understand what u ppl r saying.

Are you saying the rules will be implemented from tomorrow but the final decision will be taken on April 21st?

Sorry for the trouble.

Hi, I think the changes are SUBJECT TO PARLIMENTARY APPROVAL. when you click this link
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/settlement/
YOU CAN SEE MESSAGE BELOW....
Changes to settlement from 6 April
Subject to Parliamentary approval, the rules for settlement in the UK will change on 6 April 2011 as we tighten the current criteria.
Read more

[SNG]

According to the lawyer I contacted he advised that the current proposed changes is for only Point based system i.e Tier 1 and Tier 2. and not to workpermit holders.

Ask your lawyer to read this:

Indefinite leave to remain for a work permit holder
134. Indefinite leave to remain may be granted on application to a person provided:
(i) he has spent a continuous period of 5 years lawfully in the UK, of which the most recent period must have been spent with leave as a work permit holder (under paragraphs 128 to 133 of these rules), and the remainder must be any combination of leave as a work permit holder or leave as a highly skilled migrant (under paragraphs 135A to 135F of these rules) or leave as a self-employed lawyer (under the concession that appeared in Chapter 6, Section 1 Annex D of the Immigration Directorate Instructions), or leave as a writer, composer or artist (under paragraphs 232 to 237 of these rules);
(ii) he has met the requirements of paragraph 128(i) to (v) throughout his leave as a work permit holder, and has met the requirements of paragraph 135G(ii) throughout any leave as a highly skilled migrant;
(iii) he is still required for the employment in question, as certified by his employer;
(iv) his employer certifies that he is paid at or above the appropriate rate for the job as stated in the codes of practice for Tier 2 sponsors published by the UK Border agency, and
(v) he has sufficient knowledge of the english language and sufficient knowledge about life in the United Kingdom, in accordance with paragraph 33Ba of these rules, unless he is under the age of 18 or aged 65 or over at the date of his application;
(vi) he does not have one or more unspent convictions within the meaning of the rehabilitation of offenders act 1974

Refusal of indefinite leave to remain for a work permit holder
135. Indefinite leave to remain in the United Kingdom for a work permit holder is to be refused if the Secretary of State is not satisfied that each of the requirements of paragraph 134 is met.

Sources:
Statement of changes in Immigration Rules HC 863 - March 2011
Indefinite leave to remain for a work permit holder

Guys went back and talked to two different sources..

- Another Lawyer...he confirms unless ur on the point based system the changes doesnt effect you. Old work permit is not impacted by these changes.

- Called up UKBA helpline - the moment I said WP ...ILR she jumped and said the new system is for Tier1 and 2 and other point baised systems. not for Workpermit holders. Only the Criminality clause is applicable not the "income requirement". From the way she jumped at the answers before I completed my question... I am guessing they are getting a lot of calls regarding this.

I am pretty much getting a positive feeling. Also I feel UKBA is not that dumb as to make such changes because it won't survive any arguments in the court and they don't want the shame of having to roll back again as they did for HSMP JR.

I would suggest some of us call up again to the UKBA helpline and see if they are getting the consistent reply and post it on the forum. I am definitely going to give a couple of calls again to see what kind of answers I get.

Cheers
Amit

Hi Amit,
I rang UKBA yesterday. i said i want to apply for ILR next week may i know waht documents to carry and when are the new rules coming out.
She replied- What visa are you holding? I said Work Permit.
She replied- we got Info about changes to Tier 1&2.
I asked - Is n't WP and Tier2 not same? She replied -No not at all and we have no info about changes to WP.
So, I think as you said they have n't got any thing listed on the system about changes to WP.
So good luck..

Note : the documents saying ''under Income requirement- ... should get same income as last granted leave.. i.e. if your workpermit says 20K in 2006 and now 20k or 24k... still you satisfy the condition as last permission granted in 2006!

[York123]

The form set(O) says work permit holders need to meet the salary as in COP.

10(B) Work permit holder If you are applying for indefinite leave to remain on completing 5 years’ continuous stay in the UK as a work permit holder, in addition to the relevant documents in 10A, you must provide the
following:
Document(s) confirming that you have spent a continuous period of 5 years in the UK:
- either as a work permit holder throughout that period, or
- as a work permit holder most recently combined with previous permission as a work permit holder,
highly skilled migrant, self-employed lawyer, or as a writer, composer or artist
.
Confirm that your salary is at or above the appropriate rate. (See note 9 on page 37).

[Pierrot95]

I stress again that the key point on this is "certify by his employer".
Work permit holders were not allocated a specific COP for their job. It is now up to the employer to find a code. Even if your job title matches exactly one defined in the codes with a higher salary, the employer can argue that the actual job specifications are related to a different code.
There is no provision in the Immigration rules to question what the employer says. This goes the same for the letter saying that you are still required in the employment. The employer can sign that letter and sack you the day after you get your ILR. There is nothing illegal there. You are allowed to change your intentions.
Please relax.

The form set(O) says work permit holders need to meet the salary as in COP.

10(B) Work permit holder If you are applying for indefinite leave to remain on completing 5 years’ continuous stay in the UK as a work permit holder, in addition to the relevant documents in 10A, you must provide the
following:
Document(s) confirming that you have spent a continuous period of 5 years in the UK:
- either as a work permit holder throughout that period, or
- as a work permit holder most recently combined with previous permission as a work permit holder,
highly skilled migrant, self-employed lawyer, or as a writer, composer or artist
.
Confirm that your salary is at or above the appropriate rate. (See note 9 on page 37).

[Gopaalan]

I stress again that the key point on this is "certify by his employer".
Work permit holders were not allocated a specific COP for their job. It is now up to the employer to find a code. Even if your job title matches exactly one defined in the codes with a higher salary, the employer can argue that the actual job specifications are related to a different code.
There is no provision in the Immigration rules to question what the employer says. This goes the same for the letter saying that you are still required in the employment. The employer can sign that letter and sack you the day after you get your ILR. There is nothing illegal there. You are allowed to change your intentions.
Please relax.

Are these your opinions or from a reliable source? Anyway I wish these are all true! x

[Pierrot95]

We are not talking about opinions, we are talking about understanding the rules.
The requirement is:

134(iv) his employer certifies that he is paid at or above the appropriate rate for the job as stated in the codes of practice for Tier 2 Sponsors published by the UK Border Agency

Let's put it this way: if you apply for ILR and you get refused because you don't meet the new requirement on salary (134(iv)), as per current practice, the home office will have to tell you in writing that
"the Secretary of State is not satisfied that your employer certifies that you are paid at or above the appropriate rate for the job as stated in the codes of practice for Tier 2 Sponsors published by the UK Border Agency"

Do you think they can write this when you provide a letter from your employer saying you are paid at or above the appropriate rate for the job as stated in the codes of practice for Tier 2 Sponsors?

Have you found any provision in the rules that contradicts what I am saying?

I stress again that the key point on this is "certify by his employer".
Work permit holders were not allocated a specific COP for their job. It is now up to the employer to find a code. Even if your job title matches exactly one defined in the codes with a higher salary, the employer can argue that the actual job specifications are related to a different code.
There is no provision in the Immigration rules to question what the employer says. This goes the same for the letter saying that you are still required in the employment. The employer can sign that letter and sack you the day after you get your ILR. There is nothing illegal there. You are allowed to change your intentions.
Please relax.

Are these your opinions or from a reliable source? Anyway I wish these are all true! x

[Pierrot95]

Let's put it this way: if you apply for ILR and you get refused because you don't meet the new requirement on salary (134(iv)), as per current practice, the home office will have to tell you in writing that
"the Secretary of State is not satisfied that your employer certifies that you are paid at or above the appropriate rate for the job as stated in the codes of practice for Tier 2 Sponsors published by the UK Border Agency"

If the home Office decides to refuse your ILR because they think that your salary is not at or above the appropriate rate, they will have to write this:

"the Secretary of State is not satisfied that you are paid at or above the appropriate rate for the job as stated in the codes of practice for Tier 2 Sponsors published by the UK Border Agency"

which is clearly not a requirement for ILR.

The new requirement is that "your employer certifies that you are paid at or above a certain rate".
It is not "you are paid at or above a certain rate".

Do you get my point?

[York123]

There are no ILR rules mentioned for OLD Work Permit holders.

Should we take the rules for Tier-2 as granted.

CHeck the link below for immigration rules.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... es/part6a/

[geriatrix]

There are no ILR rules mentioned for OLD Work Permit holders.

Should we take the rules for Tier-2 as granted.

CHeck the link below for immigration rules.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... es/part6a/

You need to look for rules for "work permit holders"! If you look for rules for WP migrants in rules meant for Tier 2 migrants, it is obvious that you won't find them. Read 134.

Had you made an effort to read the recent posts in the topic (above yours), you wouldn't have jumped to such a conclusion.

[geriatrix]

Post queries regarding extension in the relevant forum, not in this topic.

[ALI74]

HI PLEASE LET US KNOW THROUGH THE FORUM
WHO ARE APPLYING IN APRIL & MAY 2011.
SO THAT WE KNOW HOW MANY ARE GOING TO APPLY IN THE COMING TWO MONTHS.
MY ILR IS DUE IN JULY .

THANKS EVERY BODY
WE SHOULD COOPERATE WITH EACH OTHER

I HIGHLY APPRECIATE THE FORUM BEING A CONTINUOUS HELP FOR ALL OF US.

[York123]

Hi All,
I have a question :

What if my designation in WP is mentioned in the COP and I am paid less, will my application be rejected. just give an example that lets say my WP states my designation as A but I am on WP and in COP this designation is or should be paid higher than what I am getting at present, what happens to the application then, will it be rejected.

[Jax331]

Hi All

I have been reading all your posts and I am in a similar position, I am on the old work permit and will apply for ILR in June 2011.

My question is why would they have the section 10B 'Confirm that your salary is at or above the appropriate rate.' if it didn't apply the WP holders? Also would you leave that tick box blank when filling out the form? And I'm pretty sure when I originally applied for the WP in 2006 there were no salary requirements which I have confirmed with my company...And if you were supposed to supply documents would you supply them with 5 years worth of salary slips? or just a letter from your employer stating you are above the appropriate rate?

I also contacted the home office which were pretty unhelpful, so I contacted 1st contact with the question and they said that will only apply to people on the points system. But why would they include that in the application if it didn't apply?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm quite confused about this particular issue as I'm sure you all are..

Thanks

[geriatrix]

section 10B 'Confirm that your salary is at or above the appropriate rate.'

Note the use of present tense.

It doesn't state - "Confirm that your salary has been at or above the appropriate rate for some/all of the 5 years you have been in the UK" or something on similar lines.

[Gopaalan]

Jax331 is right. The Set O (Version 04/2011) form says the employer should certify the slary is paid at or above the appropriate rate (Set O form - Section 10B & Note 9 on page 37)
Does anyone know someone grated ILR as a Workpermit holder after April 6th? It would be very useful to get their feed back as the form says something and the UKBA staffs say another.

[Jax331]

I think the best thing would be to wait and see if any people get rejected ILR because their wages are lower than the COP, hopefully this will not be the case.

I also noticed inconsistencies with the occupational classification codes on the Home Office website and the office for national statistics website, I'm currently a web & graphic designer, both those job descriptions codes are 3421 on the national statistics website but on the home office website a graphic designer is nowhere to be found, however a web designer is under the code 2131 which seems very strange, they should be the same code right as per the office for national statistics website?

On the codes of practice page on the home office website there is a link which says if you think the codes of practice are incorrect please email them using a specific email address. I then emailed them regarding the inconsistancies with my classification codes, and this is how they responded:
"Please note that we are not able to answer general or specific inquiries around the migrant application process under the Points Based System."

Strange...

[SNG]

Hi, I am applying next week. the job title in CoP does n't exactly match mine,but there are 2 codes with similar Job tasks/duties(out of 5 tasks listed 4 matches for one code) and i'm paid above for both the codes. my employer looked at this and agreed to give me this letter along with continuity letter.
even though the job title is not same but the duties are. so i think this is a valid point. please correct me if i am wrong.
companies who sponsored (tier2)recently know everything about these changes,but you should explain your employer by showing all related documents like documents required 10A,10B(application), 134 of immigration rules & COP obviously. then it would be easier for them..
Just to let every one know. you need to show your Dependants (or partner) living with you for at least 2years.(application form 10A 7th check list). this was n't there before for work visa's(i think).
* 10B 2nd one do i need all the address proofs?
* is tenancy agreements a compulsion? i have voter registration letters(+bank statements). is it valid?
please suggest...

[ALI74]

Closed Employment Categories
Updated 7th April 2011.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

[verian1981]

Hi All

Now that the UKBA has changed the rules for ILR..its a very confusing stage where no one has no clue what to do?My ILR is due in December and im worried what will happen.I was trying to get some information about it and i found this link below.According to this rules have not changed for the old work permit holders and UKBA is treating Work permit as closed category.I was bit relieved after reading this but still dont have a final picture.I hope this will put some light on the matter..

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

[Gopaalan]

Closed Employment Categories
Updated 7th April 2011.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

The page says valid from 8th March 2011. How do you know it's updated on 07.04.11 ?

[verian1981]

If it was not updated then it would have not been on the UKBA official site...

[ALI74]

The page says valid from 8th March 2011. How do you know it's updated on 07.04.11 ?[/quote]


http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... d/working/