New fee W.E.F 6th April

fs05 · Post by **fs05** » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:55 pm

This is going to be chaos !! Ram I think we need another list with location only ; sine you have ppls emails I think best to create a group now like yahoo or something

Can u send me an email with your phone no, my name is fahim

zabiela · Post by **zabiela** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:44 am

I don't think physical location should be a concern right now. We can all communicate via this board and if needed we can talk on phone or skype or even travel to London if needed (where i'm sure most of the 57 people who registered are based). Anything confidential can be communicated through the emails that i am assuming Ram has, of all of us.

Re challenging this in court i think 57 is a good number to start and with little publicity we can easily go up to 75 or even 100. By publicity i don't mean going to media at this stage, its still early to do that.
What we need at this stage is a plan & ideas on how should we proceed and my understanding is we will definitely need to have a good lawyer on board at some stage. Does anyone have any good lawyers to suggest?

I am sure emotions are running high at the moment but i think this wont be an easy win, so we need to be calm and prepare for this upcoming battle!

shahmir · Post by **shahmir** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:37 pm

Need a quick confirmation please. An application posted on 5th (its 'posted', not via courier) will pay current fee and not the new fee, right?

shahmir · Post by **shahmir** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:32 pm

Don't you like to pay for the advertisement?

fs05 · Post by **fs05** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:33 pm

Can someone suggest a reputed lawyer, lets get an email going with him.

Ram - is it posisble to create a yahoo groups and add everyones email so if we start contacting these lawyers everyone knows.

fs05 · Post by **fs05** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:09 pm

Thanks Ram for creating the Facebook group !!!!!

dcsean2001 · Post by **dcsean2001** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:15 pm

An application posted on 5th via post for Next Day delivery will pay current fee or new fee?

ram80 · Post by **ram80** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:17 pm

dcsean2001 wrote:An application posted on 5th via post for Next Day delivery will pay current fee or new fee?

If you send your application form and application fee by post, the date of application is the date of posting. This is decided by the postmark. If the postmark is illegible or missing, the date of postage is taken as being at least 1 day before it is received by us.

If you send your application form and application fee by courier, the date of application is the date when it is delivered to our payment handling service.

Source: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas ... -to-apply/

The fee is the one that is applicable on the date of posting (if sent by post)

everest · Post by **everest** » Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:47 pm

Dear Ram,
Thanks for your effort. I am TIER1 General holder in the same boat and I have also provided my details in the google form.

Note that's its not just 50% fee increment. I had a baby in Jan-2013 and need to get his dependent visa. Unfortunately I was too busy to apply earlier and yesterday when I looked up UKBA website, I was shocked to see the outrageous fee increment for dependent visa for a new born baby (I know dependent visa for baby is not must as long as within UK but I do have plans to travel abroad before I get ILR)

So if I apply a dependent visa for baby, the application will be treated as a dependent applying separately and hence a fee of £1545. This was earlier £750. So the increase is more than 100%. This is nothing less than a daylight robbery and a mockery of the plight of us migrants.

I am infuriarated, though I can manage to shell out from my hard earned savings, but this is unjust. Simply unjust. Why the hell 100% increase for TIER 1 General dependents only?

Pls do let me know if I can support you in anyway

Ganesh

ram80 wrote:One very interesting case that could help us is HSMP forum vs Secretary of State for Home Department [2009] EWHC 711 (Admin)

In this case, the judge clearly observes the following (note the underlined text):

50. In the present case the Secretary of State accepts that it is necessary to deal with those individuals who were members of the scheme before April 2006. She accepts also that no individual should be disadvantaged, in relation to being removed from the UK or being asked to pay an additional fee.

This is clearly violated by the government year after year. So if the Secretary of State has accepted that additional fees should not be levied for a migrant already granted entry clearance, this can only mean that if you paid £500 when you got your visa, the government cannot increase this fee upon its renewal. One can understand if inflation effect of around 3% p.a. is factored into the fee charged, but to increase it by 50% is a violation of law, and we appear to have a clear legal precedent now.

ram80 · Post by **ram80** » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:50 pm

68 people have now registered on the form, but quite a few have given fake contact details, this defeats the purpose of registering (which is to establish a contact group).

Hi Ganesh,

I am speaking to the executive committee of 'HSMP Forum' who are evaluating the issue. If they are convinced that we have a strong case or atleast one that can be made strong through proper arguments, we can proceed as they guide us.

Else I am open for us to go alone, this I would not prefer unless HSMP Forum is completely unwilling to do anything about it.

You can follow the developments more closely by joining the FB group, and also suggest any further ideas on the topic if you have.

kashifmasud · Post by **kashifmasud** » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:19 pm

I am very happy to see finally members are thinking to take this to Court, I will try my best to get more people signed in for this petition.

Hats off for you guys

Saga · Post by **Saga** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:55 am

ram80 wrote:One very interesting case that could help us is HSMP forum vs Secretary of State for Home Department [2009] EWHC 711 (Admin)

In this case, the judge clearly observes the following (note the underlined text):

50. In the present case the Secretary of State accepts that it is necessary to deal with those individuals who were members of the scheme before April 2006. She accepts also that no individual should be disadvantaged, in relation to being removed from the UK or being asked to pay an additional fee.

This is clearly violated by the government year after year. So if the Secretary of State has accepted that additional fees should not be levied for a migrant already granted entry clearance, this can only mean that if you paid £500 when you got your visa, the government cannot increase this fee upon its renewal. One can understand if inflation effect of around 3% p.a. is factored into the fee charged, but to increase it by 50% is a violation of law, and we appear to have a clear legal precedent now.

I think this is the most important post in the whole thread.

We have to have a legal ground or precedent on whatever we claim.

- Is there a definition of 'additional fee' in this judgment?
- AFAIK the honorable immigration minister has made two claims justifying increase in fee 1) inflation and 2) to cover the processing cost

We can clearly see that the inflation reason is completely false.

However, do we have any numbers for the processing cost claim? Either from UKBA themselves or an independent auditor?

I think the way to go that increase is not in line with inflation AND UKBA is not only covering its costs BUT making a revenue or profit out of it clearly going against its stated objectives.

Can we prove any of the above things in a court of law..

Saga · Post by **Saga** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:56 am

Any lawyers on board here ?

fs05 · Post by **fs05** » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:51 am

There used to be a pdf available online on UKBA website which they have removed.

Anywys bad news on this website:
www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN06602.pdf

Section 51 of the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006 gives the Secretary of State the power to make orders requiring an immigration or nationality application to be accompanied by a fee for related processes, services, information or advice, and to make regulations specifying the amount of the fee and any exceptions and consequences of failure to pay.4
Section 42(1) of the Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants, Etc.) Act 2004 (as amended) gives the Secretary of State the power to set a fee which is intended to exceed the administrative cost of the application and reflect benefits that the Secretary of State considers the applicant will obtain from the application or process.
Section 42(2A) of the 2004 Act (as amended) enables the Secretary of State to specify a fee amount which reflects the costs of the application and the costs of other claims, applications or services.
The current regulations are as follows:
•
The Immigration and Nationality (Fees) Order 2011, as amended by the Immigration and Nationality (Fees) (Amendment) Order 2013, specifies the types of application, service and process for which the UKBA is allowed to charge a fee.5
•
The Immigration and Nationality (Cost Recovery Fees) Regulations 2013 set the fees for applications and services charged at or below unit cost.6
•
The Immigration and Nationality (Fees) Regulations 2013 set the fees charged above unit cost

ram80 · Post by **ram80** » Thu May 02, 2013 6:17 pm

I had filed a freedom of Information request as follows:

The Home Office on 25-Feb-13 has published a Written Ministerial
Statement for "Charging for Immigration & Nationality Services
2013-14" and available online at
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publicatio ... rging-wms/

I would like to request for the details (calculations/breakup &
assumptions) on how the following unit costs (April 2013) were
determined:

Tier 1 (General) Standard – main £336
Tier 1 (General) Standard – all dependants £336
Tier 1 (General) Standard CESC – main Tier 1 £330
Tier 2 – General, ICT – Long term staff, Sport & MOR – Standard –
all dependants £225
ILR Standard – main £403
ILR Standard – all dependants £403
Naturalisation (UK Citizenship) single £187
Naturalisation (UK Citizenship) joint £281

I would also like to know the basis (calculations/breakup and
assumptions) on which the following fees (New Fees 6th April 2013)
were set:

Tier 1 (General) Standard – main £1,545
Tier 1 (General) Standard – all dependants £1,159
Tier 1 (General) Standard CESC – main Tier 1 £1,391
Tier 2 – General, ICT – Long term staff, Sport & MOR – Standard –
all dependants £434
ILR Standard – main £1,051
ILR Standard – all dependants £788
ILR Standard CESC – main £946
Naturalisation (UK Citizenship) single £874
Naturalisation (UK Citizenship) joint £1,550

Application in Person (AIP) – main and dependants £375

I have received a reply to my Freedom of Information request. The Home Office has not provided the objective basis on which the cost of issuing the visas, and the fees charged, are determined. They have simply asked me to refer this link for further information - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013 ... m/contents, but it doesn't contain the requested information.

Your thoughts are invited.

zabiela · Post by **zabiela** » Tue May 07, 2013 2:58 pm

ram80 wrote:I had filed a freedom of Information request as follows:

The Home Office on 25-Feb-13 has published a Written Ministerial
Statement for "Charging for Immigration & Nationality Services
2013-14" and available online at
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publicatio ... rging-wms/

I would like to request for the details (calculations/breakup &
assumptions) on how the following unit costs (April 2013) were
determined:

Tier 1 (General) Standard – main £336
Tier 1 (General) Standard – all dependants £336
Tier 1 (General) Standard CESC – main Tier 1 £330
Tier 2 – General, ICT – Long term staff, Sport & MOR – Standard –
all dependants £225
ILR Standard – main £403
ILR Standard – all dependants £403
Naturalisation (UK Citizenship) single £187
Naturalisation (UK Citizenship) joint £281

I would also like to know the basis (calculations/breakup and
assumptions) on which the following fees (New Fees 6th April 2013)
were set:

Tier 1 (General) Standard – main £1,545
Tier 1 (General) Standard – all dependants £1,159
Tier 1 (General) Standard CESC – main Tier 1 £1,391
Tier 2 – General, ICT – Long term staff, Sport & MOR – Standard –
all dependants £434
ILR Standard – main £1,051
ILR Standard – all dependants £788
ILR Standard CESC – main £946
Naturalisation (UK Citizenship) single £874
Naturalisation (UK Citizenship) joint £1,550

Application in Person (AIP) – main and dependants £375
I have received a reply to my Freedom of Information request. The Home Office has not provided the objective basis on which the cost of issuing the visas, and the fees charged, are determined. They have simply asked me to refer this link for further information - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013 ... m/contents, but it doesn't contain the requested information.

Your thoughts are invited.

That link is broken..

ram80 · Post by **ram80** » Mon May 13, 2013 4:36 pm

I created a petition to the Home office which has been published just now. Please sign it and circulate it to everybody who you know in the UK. We need to draw quite a lot of attention!!! Let us see how actively we can save our own rights. Remember to sign once for each of your dependents, if you are a family of 4, you can sign it four times, once in the name of each person (use a different email address each time) and mark yourself as a UK resident if you live in the UK, because that is important.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/49581

anandpathak · Post by **anandpathak** » Mon May 13, 2013 4:42 pm

ram80 wrote:I created a petition to the Home office which has been published just now. Please sign it and circulate it to everybody who you know in the UK. We need to make quite a lot of noise!!! Let us see how actively we can save our own rights. Remember to sign once for each of your dependents, if you are a family of 4, you can sign it four times, once in the name of each person (use a different email address each time) and mark yourself as a UK resident if you live in the UK, because that is important.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/49581

I have signed it but I am wondering why the petettion showing a closing date of today .? I thin It should be atleast 2 weeks in future for other to sign.

ram80 · Post by **ram80** » Mon May 13, 2013 4:43 pm

anandpathak wrote:I have signed it but I am wondering why the petettion showing a closing date of today .? I thin It should be atleast 2 weeks in future for other to sign.

This year is 2013, the closing date is 13-May-2014.

ram80 · Post by **ram80** » Mon May 13, 2013 4:59 pm

If your dependents don't have an email address of their own, I believe adding a dot anywhere within your gmail username will make it a unique email address. For example, you can use xyz123@gmail.com or xyz.123@gmail.com or x.yz123@gmail.com as distinct email addresses when you sign the petition, all of these will make the epetitions website send a validation email to the same mailbox.

But do ask everyone you know in the UK to sign it, that's important. Click on the validation link in the email which you will get after signing the petition to validate your email address. Until you validate your email address, it won't increase the count of supporters.

everest · Post by **everest** » Mon May 13, 2013 6:34 pm

I have also signed it Ram.

ram80 wrote:If your dependents don't have an email address of their own, I believe adding a dot anywhere within your gmail username will make it a unique email address. For example, you can use xyz123@gmail.com or xyz.123@gmail.com or x.yz123@gmail.com as distinct email addresses when you sign the petition, all of these will make the epetitions website send a validation email to the same mailbox.

But do ask everyone you know in the UK to sign it, that's important. Click on the validation link in the email which you will get after signing the petition to validate your email address. Until you validate your email address, it won't increase the count of supporters.

ram80 · Post by **ram80** » Mon May 13, 2013 6:39 pm

Hey, thanks.

If you have family in the UK dont forget to sign the petition separately for each member. Number of signatures count.

zabiela · Post by **zabiela** » Mon May 13, 2013 6:46 pm

ram80 wrote:I created a petition to the Home office which has been published just now. Please sign it and circulate it to everybody who you know in the UK. We need to draw quite a lot of attention!!! Let us see how actively we can save our own rights. Remember to sign once for each of your dependents, if you are a family of 4, you can sign it four times, once in the name of each person (use a different email address each time) and mark yourself as a UK resident if you live in the UK, because that is important.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/49581

Done!

ram80 · Post by **ram80** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:24 pm

Thanks, there are thousands of us who still need to sign. Please do.

ram80 · Post by **ram80** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:32 am

Please visit this page to see updates on this issue... http://www.facebook.com/groups/UKITF/

Share your thoughts after reading the updates.

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New fee W.E.F 6th April