E.U States Allowing Visa free Travel-E.U Fam&Residence c

[86ti]

See: http://www.ambafrance-uk.org/Visa-websi ... rench.html

Thanks Chinye for keeping your eye on that webpage!

I could be angry now for having paid for the postal visa application 2 weeks ago. But what the heck... Bring the champagne glasses!

Interestingly though the French seem to believe that they can exclude their own citizens like the Germans before (Christian here didn't stop before they were told otherwise) and the Polish embassy still believes.

[86ti]

I've now raised my issue with SOLVIT. Let's see what they can do!

Ok, it's obsolete now but did you get any response from them? I wrote an email to SOLVIT France a week ago but didn't get anything yet.

[Plum70]

See: http://www.ambafrance-uk.org/Visa-websi ... rench.html

Thanks Chinye for keeping your eye on that webpage!
But what the heck... Bring the champagne glasses!

Hickey... Already drowning in bubbles of delight...

I could be angry now for having paid for the postal visa application 2 weeks ago.

Shame... but the schengen visa is still a handy backup should word not have firmly reached the airlines and French border guards.

Interestingly though the French seem to believe that they can exclude their own citizens like the Germans before

Can't see the logic behind this... Anybody have an ?

[86ti]

Interestingly though the French seem to believe that they can exclude their own citizens like the Germans before

Can't see the logic behind this... Anybody have an ?

Article 3(1) probably.

[Ben]

Interestingly though the French seem to believe that they can exclude their own citizens like the Germans before

Can't see the logic behind this... Anybody have an ?

Possibly because the Surinder Singh ruling refers only to return citizens who have been pursuing an "economic activity" in another Member State. This may exclude returning citizens who have been studying or financially self-sufficient in another Member State.

[giruzz]

Rightly so! The French embassy in London has now confirmed that schengen visas are no longer required for non-EEA family members of EU citizens in possession of a UK residence card, provided that they are accompanying or joining their spouses.

See: http://www.ambafrance-uk.org/Visa-websi ... rench.html

FINALLY!!!

Hello! I've noticed that on Friday too but I didn't have time to post here!

Greece recently changed their rules as well

http://www.greekembassy.org.uk/pages_en/visas.html

I guess that the only other major country that does want a visa is SPAIN.

giruzz

[Plum70]

Article 3(1) probably.

Perhaps...

The above article reads thus:
"This Directive shall apply to all Union citizens who move to or reside in a Member State other than that of which they are a national, and to their family members as defined in point 2 of Article 2 who accompany or join them."

But the french embassy doesn't seem to distinguish between those French nationals who are exercising treaty rights in another member state (and are therefore covered by the Directive), enabling their non-EEA family members (accompanying or joining them) enter France without the need for a schengen visa.

[Ben]

..But the french embassy doesn't seem to distinguish between those French nationals who are exercising treaty rights in another member state (and are therefore covered by the Directive), enabling their non-EEA family members (accompanying or joining them) enter France without the need for a schengen visa.

As mentioned in my earlier post - only if pursuing an "economic activity" in another Member State, as per "Singh".

So, in the case of a family member of a French national, to be "covered" by the provisions of the Directive is not as automatic as simply being a family member in possession of a Residence Card described in Article 10.

This is why the French have excluded family members of French nationals from the visa exemption, according to that website.

Of course, to be absolutely correct, they could change the text on the website from "(except French national)" to "(except French national unless he/she has been pursuing an economic activity in another Member State)". Perhaps they couldn't be bothered?

[86ti]

Of course, to be absolutely correct, they could change the text on the website from "(except French national)" to "(except French national unless he/she has been pursuing an economic activity in another Member State)". Perhaps they couldn't be bothered?

You can read it in that way if you wish but as I have pointed out own nationals have been excluded and still are. Of course, this is what embassy web pages publish(ed) online. The border police may well have their own opinion...

[Ben]

Of course, to be absolutely correct, they could change the text on the website from "(except French national)" to "(except French national unless he/she has been pursuing an economic activity in another Member State)". Perhaps they couldn't be bothered?

You can read it in that way if you wish but as I have pointed out own nationals have been excluded and still are.

Read what in which way? The website says, "The foreign spouse of a EU national (except French national) may enter France..", and this is incorrect - it doesn't matter how one reads it.

What would be correct, is if it were to say, "The foreign spouse of a EU national (except French national unless he/she has been pursuing an economic activity in another Member State) may enter France..".

In accordance with Directive 2004/38/EC and Singh (Case C-370/90).

[isceon]

what benifa says makes sens.
I am married to a french citizen exercising treaty right in the uk and cannot take advantage of directive 2004/38 at present as I have to provide all the other docs required for anybody for a shenghen visa by the french embassy and it is against the directive and infriges freedom of movement.The French got it wrong on this one I am writing to the EU commission about it.

[Ben]

what benifa says makes sens.
I am married to a french citizen exercising treaty right in the uk and cannot take advantage of directive 2004/38 at present as I have to provide all the other docs required for anybody for a shenghen visa by the french embassy and it is against the directive and infriges freedom of movement.The French got it wrong on this one I am writing to the EU commission about it.

So long as the Treaty right exercised in the UK by your French citizen spouse is an "economic activity", then Singh conditions apply. No visa required for entering France with your spouse, just your Residence Card / passports.

Good for you by the way, for complaining to the Commission on such matters. It does work, so good decision.

[Skiingswede1980]

[quote="86ti"][quote="Skiingswede1980"]I've now raised my issue with SOLVIT. Let's see what they can do![/quote]

Ok, it's obsolete now but did you get any response from them? I wrote an email to SOLVIT France a week ago but didn't get anything yet.[/quote]

My query was routed thorugh to SOLVIT Sweden (due to me being Swedish). They in turn contacted SOLVIT France who agreed to raise the query with the relevant French Authorities as they said we had a solid case (obviously). This all happened last Wednesday but it all seems obsolete now. I have just sent an email to the the French consulate in London and am awaiting their response to confirm that they have indeed changed their stance!!!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

So long as the Treaty right exercised in the UK by your French citizen spouse is an "economic activity", then Singh conditions apply. No visa required for entering France with your spouse, just your Residence Card / passports.

Yes and no. The Singh ruling said that if you want to go back to your home country to exercise treaty rights, then your family members can do it under European law. I think it would certainly cover you if you “intendâ€

[Ben]

So long as the Treaty right exercised in the UK by your French citizen spouse is an "economic activity", then Singh conditions apply. No visa required for entering France with your spouse, just your Residence Card / passports.

Yes and no. The Singh ruling said that if you want to go back to your home country to exercise treaty rights, then your family members can do it under European law. I think it would certainly cover you if you “intendâ€

[Richard66]

It is the frame of mind... Why does the Surinder Singh talk about "economic treaty rights" and not about "tourist visas"? Not because the principle behind the judgement does not apply in the case of visits, but because Surinder singh's case did not deal with the question. One of the principles of law is that when you go to court because you want a lemon, if you win, you get a lemon, not a lemon an orange and a peanut. Surinder was working in Germany and the ECJ pronounced the sentence based on his circumstances. If he had been a student or self-sufficient the outcome woul have been different in that it would no longer mention "economic treaty rights" but "study or self-sufficiency."

Anyway, for the first three months, no treaty rights need to be exercised.

[rogerex]

Hi guys hope you can help em I've been reading the post but still a bit confused.

I'm a Non-EU married to a EU and recently got my residence document in the UK. I'd like to know if I need a visa to go to Slovakia.

Many thanks

[Skiingswede1980]

Hi all,

Just back from a long weekend in France with my wife who has a UK Family Member EEA / EU Residence Card as you can see in one of my previous posts in this thread. She did have a valid Schengen visa for this entry but we spoke to the border guards at Toulon-Hyeres airport (on arrival and on departure) in anticipation of our next trip and they said that she does not need a Schengen visa if she travels with me. I asked if this stance had been implemented recently and they said that they've been accepting people on the same basis for some time and that it was nothing new. I expressed confusion given the information given to me by the French embassy until very recently and they said that the embassy must have been giving out incorrect information!

All in all, good news. We're going back in July and we'll she will travel without a Schengen visa. Will report back on how that goes in due course.

[bdb303]

already posted

[surdy77]

Hi,
I have read the above posts and coudnt find a solution to my query. Me and my wife both have Indian passports with Indefinite Leave to remain. My son has a british passport , so if we travel together then do me and my wife need a schengen visa since my son is a British citizen ?

I intend to go to Italy and france this year , hence the query !

if someone could please clarify !

[fysicus]

surdy77,

your situation has no connection with EU directive 2004/38 (assuming your son has never lived in another EU country), so you and your wife will need a Schengen visa. With a UK ILR there should be no complications; just apply at the embassy of the country you want to visit

[ca.funke]

...your situation has no connection with EU directive 2004/38...

I think 2004/38/EC does have relevance:

Article 3

Beneficiaries

1. This Directive shall apply to all Union citizens who move
   to or reside in a Member State other than that of which they
   are a national, and to their family members as defined in point
   2 of Article 2 who accompany or join them.

This was already discussed in many threads. As far as I gathered the conclusion is that the directive is applicable in all cases, except where a resident is and remains in his home-country. (I.e. for local residence-premits)

If you travel, you are also "mov(e)(ing) to" the host-member-state, albeit not permanently.
(Such as moving (yourself) from work to the gym, not permanently changing residence)

This is more apparent in the German version of the law, where the same sentence reads

Diese Richtlinie gilt für jeden Unionsbürger, der sich in
einen anderen als den Mitgliedstaat, dessen Staatsangehörigkeit
er besitzt, begibt oder sich dort aufhält, sowie für seine Fami-
lienangehörigen im Sinne von Artikel 2 Nummer 2, die ihn
begleiten oder ihm nachziehen.

where "begibt"=(begeben) cannot mean "relocate permanently", but always means "going to the neighbor for tea", i.e. visiting.

I think the English version was simply not carefully translated.

As always I'd be happy to be corrected, if the above is wrong

Me and my wife both have Indian passports...
...My son has a british passport...
...Italy and france...

I think you can travel without visa, details >>here<<.

Regards from "Amchi Mumbai", where I happen to be right now

[surdy77]

Hi Guys,
thanks for ur earnest replies. I have just spoken with VFS for Italian consulate and they said that i do need a visa and need to pay for it as well.
they said i could only travel visa free if my spouse was british, but that rule does not applies to children being british.

i find it very conflicting coz the rule clearly states "family members" and surely my son is a family member to me !!

any more views ?

[AncientAlien]

[AncientAlien]

7. Latvia
http://www.am.gov.lv/en/service/visas/EU/

Entry into to Latvia by citizens of Member States of the European Union, countries of the European Economic Area, and the Swiss Confederation and their family members

Entry into Latvia and stay by citizens of Member States of the European Union, countries of the European Economic Area, and the Swiss Confederation (hereinafter: "Union citizens") and their family members is regulated by Cabinet of Ministers Regulation No. 586 of 18 July 2006 "Procedure for Entry into Latvia and Residence by Citizens and their Family Members of Member States of the European Union, the European Economic Area, and the Swiss Confederation", with which Directive 2004/58/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April 2004 on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and stay freely within the territory of the Member States is being implemented in Latvia.


Cabinet of Ministers Regulation No. 586 defines a "family member of a Union citizen" as:

* the spouse of a Union citizen
* the direct descendant of a Union citizen or his spouse who is under the age of 21 and is a dependant of the Union citizen or his spouse
* the direct relative of a Union citizen or his spouse in the ascending line, who is a dependant of the Union citizen or his spouse
* a person who is the ward of a Union citizen or their spouse and who has been part of a common household with the Union citizen in their former country of domicile

A Union citizen is not required a visa to enter or stay in Latvia. In order to enter Latvia, he/she is required a valid travel document such as a passport or personal identification document (ID card).

If a Union citizen wishes to stay in Latvia for a period of time in excess of 90 days counting from the first date of entry, he must register with the Office of Citizenship and Migration Affairs and obtain a registration certificate.

A family member of a Union citizen, being a person not exempted from the requirement for a visa, when crossing the external border of the Schengen area is entitled to enter and stay in Latvia for a period of up to 90 days from the first date of entry if he has:

* a valid Union citizen's family member residence permit issued by a European Union Member State
* a valid residence permit issued by a state signatory to the Schengen agreement
* a valid uniform (Schengen) visa for travel within the Schengen area
* a valid long-term visa for entry into Latvia issued by a competent Latvian institution


A family member of a Union citizen who submits documentation confirming a family relationship and travels together with the Union citizen, or who wishes to stay together with him in Latvia, does not require an invitation approved by the Office of Citizenship and Migration Affairs in order to apply for a visa.


If a family member of a Union citizen wishes to stay in Latvia for a period in excess of 90 days counting from the first date of entry, he must register with the Office of Citizenship and Migration Affairs and receive a registration certificate.

[/quote]

Does this Latvian rules apply even if the EEA national is a Latvian citizen and the non-EEA has a valid RC, and is travelling alone for short stay in Latvia?:roll: