Overseas Citizenship of India (OCI)

[raikal]

Lemess - Remember PIOs can get citizenship but for that he/she has to reside in India for minimum 7 years before making application for granting Indian citizenship.

In case of OCIs though citizenship may be granted Indian citizenship after 5 years from date of registration provided he/she stays for one year in India before making application "

I think there is a loop hole to get indian Citizenship back without following minimum requirements of PIO/OCI.
Just renounce OCI and go on Visit Visa and you can then apply for Indian Nationality as there is no minimum requirement for the people who were citizens before.

[lemess]

Raikal,
I don't think it's a loophole. it's just that if you lost your Indian citizenship automatically without formally renouncing it ( as would be the case if you just acquired a foreign passport), you can reverse the process and get it back - obviously by renouncing the foreign citizenship.

On that front, the difference between OCI and PIO routes to full Indian citizenship is academic for most people who were once Indian citizens and did not formally renounce their Indian citizenship.

[basis]

Raikal,
I don't think it's a loophole. it's just that if you lost your Indian citizenship automatically without formally renouncing it ( as would be the case if you just acquired a foreign passport), you can reverse the process and get it back - obviously by renouncing the foreign citizenship.

On that front, the difference between OCI and PIO routes to full Indian citizenship is academic for most people who were once Indian citizens and did not formally renounce their Indian citizenship.

http://www.embassyofindia.com/change_city.htm

Re-Obtaining Indian Citizenship

Important : While the process of surrendering Indian Citizenship is easy, the process of re-acquisition of Indian citizenship is long and complicated, involving establishing resident status in India for at least five years.

Apply for a five year visa (Click here for timings, service charges and forms)
Register your presence in India with the concerned authorities within 14 days of your arrival in India. In major cities, the concerned authority would be the Foreigners Regional Registration Office (FRRO). In district headquarters, the District Superintendent of Police nominates an official to undertake this responsibility.
Stay in India continuously for a period of at least five years. Ensure that you carefully keep telephone bills, electricity bills, municipal tax receipts and any other documentation that will help you prove your resident status.
After a minimum of 5 years stay in India, formally apply for Indian citizenship to the office of the local district collector. You will have to fill in the required forms, attach relevant documentation and sign the oath of allegiance to the Indian constitution.
After your application is processed and approved, you will be issued a Certificate of Registration as proof that you have been registered as an Indian citizen. You will need to produce this Certificate when you apply to the nearest Regional Passport Office for a new Indian passport
After obtaining Indian citizenship, when you apply to the Singaporean authorities for repatriation of your CPF, medisave balance and any other amounts due to you from the Singaporean authorities, please ensure that you attach a copy of a letter from any Singapore Mission/ Consulate in India confirming that you have surrendered your Singapore citizenship and passport to them.

[lemess]

Basis,
I think I recall from somewhere that there is a shorter route if you renounce your other citizenship and effectively become stateless. As with most things related to the Indian civil service, there are at least 365 different versions of the truth

[basis]

Moderators - Is there a facility to merge two threads. The thread Naturalisation and Work in India started by aali contains very useful and important info and very relevant to this thread. Can these two be merged ?

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[dabar]

Friends,
I am going to apply for OCI at London on Mon 6th Feb. I will post my experience here the same day.
Thanks.

[basis]

Good Luck Dabar. Hope you have got all documents, photos, attestations etc done as required.

Is it better to fill online Part A or to print the whole thing and write it ?

I am thinking of applying from within India - So I can share that experience too. If all the processing happens here then I guess it should be quicker and ofcourse I think there would be very few who are applying from within India - those who are already there on PIO may not bother to apply soon - so do I hope

Good to see on the other boards that the approvals have started coming in although no one has yet recd the cards and stamp in the passport.

[basis]

A useful section on GOI website for Non Resident Indians (NRIs) and Persons of Indian Origin (PIOs). The best thing abt this one is that it puts all relevant links at one source.

http://india.gov.in/overseas/nri.php

[dabar]

Thanks, basis.
I have just filled the online form and printed it. It was just a 5 minutes job.

When you have completed the form and click on Save, the printer selection dialog appears. Enter the no. of copies as 2 or more and then print. This is because you need to submit the application in duplicate. It will print the entire form for you (including both Part A and Part B) with a Reference No. on part A.
There is an option of Re-Printing the form, but if you use that it doesn't print the Date of Issue of your current (British) passport.

IMPORTANT: Therefore print the required number of copies in the first attempt itself.


I've made two sets of documentation, each consisting of:

• Application form
  Self-attested copies of my Indian passport (First and last pages only)
  Self-attested copy of my British passport
  Self-attested copy of Naturisation certificate

Also I've affixed a passport size (45mm x 35mm) photo on each of the application form and will carry another 6 as required.
I am also taking all the originals, a covering letter requesting to cancel my Indian passport and return it to me.
And not to forget, £165 in cash.

[dabar]

Is it better to fill online Part A or to print the whole thing and write it ?

Filling the online part A gives you a Reference Number, which you can use for checking the progress of your application online.

[basis]

Thanks Dabar for sharing the info. Are you applying only for self or even for familiy ?

In online application where do you stick the photos ? As you said it also prints part B it may give you that facility there right ?

What's the size of the photos and any other reqts for photos ?

If one is self employed / not employed is there an issue with the application as it needs employer's address.

[dabar]

- Applying for self.
- Stick the photo on the printed Part A. There is a box for affixing photo on Part A. The instruction within the box says of a photo of 35mm x 35mm.
- I've got UK passport size photos, which are 45mm (height) x 35mm (width). I could not crop the photo to required size, as doing so would chopp off my hairs/shoulder from the photo. Therefore I've pasted the photos without cutting any edge. The box is big enough to accomodate the 45mm x 35mm photo. So it should not be a problem, I guess.
- Employer's address is not a mandatory field. So leaving it should not be an issue if you are not employed.

[dabar]

So Friends, here is my OCI application experience. Sorry if you find it a bit lengthy, but I could not help it.

I reached HCI (High Commission of India), London around 7:45 AM this morning.
Already there was a big queue. I guess I was 120th and was standing on the pavement near India House.
After some queries, I found that there were two windows that issue numbered tokens for various services offered by the HCI.
The one that issues tokens for OCI, passport renewal, etc. is the very first window. You can see many notices stuck on this window. One of them says that only 15 dual citizenship tokens would be issued per day. So I joined the small queue in front of that window.
The other window, at the far end of the building, issues tokens for visa and the queue for it was longiiiiish.

At 8:30 AM visa-window was opened and the queue there started moving fast.
But We had to wait patiently till 9:35 AM for the OCI window to open. I got the OCI token no. 3.

Then in the building and upstairs to the OCI section. Waited with others in that room till 10:00 AM when a lady and a gentle man entered the cabin there and started accepting OCI applications.

I entered the cabin when my turn came.
Mine was a straight-forward case with all the required documentation present.
They scrutinised both sets of application, asked for my Indian and British passport to check the details.
I had un-cancelled Indian passport, which was cancelled, corners were cut and it was handed back to me then and there. My British passport was also returned.

They accepted the UK passport size photos (45mm H x 35mm W) without any problems as earlier hoped.
No File No. was given to me. The guy asked me to use the Reference No. for online status check.

I was told that it might take upto 3 months for the entire procedure to complete.
This is how it seems to work:
Applicant submits application. The embassy processes Part B of the application while Part A is sent to be processed in India. The OCI card and U-Visa sticker are printed in India with the appplican't details on it. Then they are sent to the embassy. When the embassy receives them, they contact the applicant to come with his UK passport. Applicant visits the embassy where the U-Visa is stamped and OCI card is issued to him.

IMPORTANT : Only 15 OCI tokens per day are issued. Therefore ensure that you reach there early.

[dabar]

- be aware though that the visa section of the HC is a complete cattle market.

Very True! No exaggeration here!

[basis]

Thanks Dabar for sharing the info. From what I gather so far no one has recd the visa / card so far. So good luck. I am glad I went for PIO first - now I have enough time to wait for the babu's of Indian Admin to get their act together on this OCI thingy.

I have changed the title of this thread to remove the word 'Dual Citizenship' to avoid any confusion in the mind of new readers.

[lemess]

Me too - I am glad my family and I went for the PIO option. Had our cards within 2 weeks and can immediately travel to India and take up jobs there etc.

All this stuff about only 15 tokens a day is ridiculous. Why couldn't they do electronic appointments or something on the internet so that people don't have to waste time going into Central London only to find out the babus have finished their quotas for the day ! It is beyond a joke.

[basis]

Dabur - Thanks for the useful posts - both before and after submission of the application. Keep the status checking at http://ociindia.nic.in/ociindia/OnlineOCIenquiry.jsp

There are some of my friends from New Zealand and the US whose applications show 'granted' status now. They had submitted their apps 3 - 4 weeks ago. So you may get it sooner than 3 months.

Thanks, basis.
I have just filled the online form and printed it. It was just a 5 minutes job.
IMPORTANT: Therefore print the required number of copies in the first attempt itself.

I tried twice and it did not print the PIO card details even with the first print. I am going to write it with hands now. You can always take a photocopy of the printout if you forget to take the required number of copies. But better to take the printouts in right number the first time. Another option would be fill the form again - anyway it takes very less time to fill

I've made two sets of documentation, each consisting of:

• Application form
  Self-attested copies of my Indian passport (First and last pages only)
  Self-attested copy of my British passport
  Self-attested copy of Naturisation certificate

I think photocopy of passport or naturalisation certificate should be enough. Are both required? If you have passport (and you must have it otherwise where would they paste the OCI sticker) then photocpy of naturalisation cert not required (and that's what the dumb instruction from MHA says on the form.) Ridiculous why to even say copy of passport / naturalisation cert when passport anyway is mandatory.

Also I've affixed a passport size (45mm x 35mm) photo on each of the application form and will carry another 6 as required.

Dabar - Where is it said that 6 copies are required. Are all the six copies required to be of the same size. Are there any requirements - e.g. white background, light and so on.

I am also taking all the originals, a covering letter requesting to cancel my Indian passport and return it to me.

You actually dont need any covering letter. The babus latch at any opportunity promptly to cut the corners of your passport and put 'cancelled' stamp

[dabar]

Thanks, basis.
It is always better to carry extra documentation than asked for. You never know what they might ask.
They might have asked for copies of Naturalisation certificate in connection to a question on PArt B. It asks you to write the date and method of your present citizenship i.e. By descent/registration/naturalisation etc.

In all 8 photos will be needed as per the following link.
http://hcilondon.net/Overseas-Indian-Ci ... exnew.html

[basis]

The Home Office has updated the Nationality Instructions:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en ... nex_h.html

Dual Citizenship

6.1 Indian citizenship cannot normally be held in combination with any other citizenship. Section 9 of the 1955 Act provides that

"Any citizen of India who by naturalisation, registration or otherwise voluntarily acquires.....the citizenship of another country..... shall, upon such acquisition,..... cease to be a citizen of India".

6.2 This means that no adult (18 and over) can hold Indian citizenship in conjunction with any other nationality or citizenship. This applies irrespective of whether the person holds any passports (either Indian or that of their other nationality/citizenship).

6.3 Further, if an Indian minor obtains another nationality or citizenship (for example by registration as a BN(O)) the child will automatically lose its Indian citizenship. This applies even where the registration is made by the parents/guardian on behalf of the child.

6.4 The only exception to this general ban on dual citizenship is where a child is a dual national by birth. In such cases that child can remain a dual citizen until either:
a. they obtain a passport in their other citizenship (while under the age of 18 ); or
b. they reach the age of majority (18 )

6.5 If a child who is a dual national by birth fails to renounce their other citizenship prior to reaching the age of majority or acquires a passport in their other nationality before reaching the age of 18 they will lose Indian citizenship.


It's unclear how the logic in section 6.2 to 6.5 flows from 6.1 in cases where Indian plus another citizenship is acquired at birth, but this seems to be the outcome of discussions the Home Office has had with the Indian authorities.


Indian Overseas Citizenship

7.5 For the purposes of British nationality law, OCI is considered to be citizenship of another State. This will be relevant where British law requires the person to be stateless (as, for example, in Schedule 2 to the British Nationality Act 1981) or to have no citizenship or nationality apart from a qualifying form of British nationality (as, for example, in s.4B to the 1981 Act). In these cases, confirmation of non-acquisition of OCI should be sought where the applicant appears to satisfy the criteria in paragraph 7.4 above

It seems that anyone wishing to contest this interpretation will have to challenge it in the courts.

[basis]

7.5 For the purposes of British nationality law, OCI is considered to be citizenship of another State. This will be relevant where British law requires the person to be stateless (as, for example, in Schedule 2 to the British Nationality Act 1981) or to have no citizenship or nationality apart from a qualifying form of British nationality (as, for example, in s.4B to the 1981 Act). In these cases, confirmation of non-acquisition of OCI should be sought where the applicant appears to satisfy the criteria in paragraph 7.4 above

Not sure this can survive a court challenge. OCI is only a visa endorsement on a foreign travel document and is invalid without a valid passport. So the implicit indication above that one can be an OCI without any other citizenship is fundamentally flawed as in its current form, that is impossible.

I can't blame the home office for being unclear on this. The babus in the Indian civil service have done their best to make this one of the most obscure and obfuscated policies ever to issue forth from even their distinguished hands.

Couldn't agree more with lemess. It is a waste of time, money and completely non-sensical for everyone this OCI scheme.

[basis]

6.4 The only exception to this general ban on dual citizenship is where a child is a dual national by birth. In such cases that child can remain a dual citizen until either:
a. they obtain a passport in their other citizenship (while under the age of 18 ); or
b. they reach the age of majority (18 )

6.5 If a child who is a dual national by birth fails to renounce their other citizenship prior to reaching the age of majority or acquires a passport in their other nationality before reaching the age of 18 they will lose Indian citizenship.
[/i]

That means if a child obtains the British passport it does not have any more option to renounce UK citizenship at the age of 18 and be Indian citizen. My understanding was different - I had thought the child has an option at the age of 18 to keep the BC or renounce it.

Indian Overseas Citizenship

7.5 For the purposes of British nationality law, OCI is considered to be citizenship of another State. This will be relevant where British law requires the person to be stateless (as, for example, in Schedule 2 to the British Nationality Act 1981) or to have no citizenship or nationality apart from a qualifying form of British nationality (as, for example, in s.4B to the 1981 Act). In these cases, confirmation of non-acquisition of OCI should be sought where the applicant appears to satisfy the criteria in paragraph 7.4 above

It seems that anyone wishing to contest this interpretation will have to challenge it in the courts.

What are the cases where British law requires the person to be stateless ?

[ppron747]

6.4 The only exception to this general ban on dual citizenship is where a child is a dual national by birth. In such cases that child can remain a dual citizen until either:
a. they obtain a passport in their other citizenship (while under the age of 18 ); or
b. they reach the age of majority (18 )

6.5 If a child who is a dual national by birth fails to renounce their other citizenship prior to reaching the age of majority or acquires a passport in their other nationality before reaching the age of 18 they will lose Indian citizenship.

That means if a child obtains the British passport it does not have any more option to renounce UK citizenship at the age of 18 and be Indian citizen. My understanding was different - I had thought the child has an option at the age of 18 to keep the BC or renounce it.

It just doesn't sound right to me: a child cannot renounce British nationality, and a parent cannot do it on a child's behalf. If 6.5 is correct, the child loses Indian citizenship at the very same time that it would have been able to divest itself of British citizenship, if it wished. Essentially, it means that the child is being punished for failing to do something that the law didn't allow it to do. It beggars belief that there isn't some grace period, Kenya-style...

Indian Overseas Citizenship

7.5 For the purposes of British nationality law, OCI is considered to be citizenship of another State. This will be relevant where British law requires the person to be stateless (as, for example, in Schedule 2 to the British Nationality Act 1981) or to have no citizenship or nationality apart from a qualifying form of British nationality (as, for example, in s.4B to the 1981 Act). In these cases, confirmation of non-acquisition of OCI should be sought where the applicant appears to satisfy the criteria in paragraph 7.4 above

It seems that anyone wishing to contest this interpretation will have to challenge it in the courts.

What are the cases where British law requires the person to be stateless ?

Schedule 2 is the part of the 1981 Nationality Act that gives entitlement to British nationality to (eg) a stateless person born in UK who has spent most of his life here. It is intended to ensure that the UK complies with its obligations under the Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness.
Section 4B (also mentioned above) is the provision whereby BOCs, BSs and BPPs who have no other nationality and who haven't renounced or given up another nationality since 4 July 2002 are entitled to be registered as British citizens.

[Smit]

ppron747, when you say Kenya style, do you mean the fact that Kenya allows a child to have dual citizenship till age 23 (I believe) after which he/she must give up one or the other?

[ppron747]

ppron747, when you say Kenya style, do you mean the fact that Kenya allows a child to have dual citizenship till age 23 (I believe) after which he/she must give up one or the other?

Yeah - it isn't "after which", though... They must have renounced their other citizenship before their 23rd birthday. If they don't, their Kenyan citizenship automatically falls away. It does catch people out from time to time, but I think it is reasonably fair - it gives people several years while they are adult in which to make decisions of their nationality, and act accordingly.
The Indian provision (if correctly interpreted by the Home Office...) is just plain daft - it strips people of the ability to make a choice on the day that they would have become able to make the choice, if they hadn't been stripped of it....

[basis]

It just doesn't sound right to me: a child cannot renounce British nationality, and a parent cannot do it on a child's behalf. If 6.5 is correct, the child loses Indian citizenship at the very same time that it would have been able to divest itself of British citizenship, if it wished. Essentially, it means that the child is being punished for failing to do something that the law didn't allow it to do. It beggars belief that there isn't some grace period, Kenya-style...

It sounds that Indian law treats acquisition of British Passport for the child as act of renouncing Indian Citizenship. Is this correct ? Or the British HO have understood it wrongly or the Indian babus have managed successfully to confuse them ?

Schedule 2 is the part of the 1981 Nationality Act that gives entitlement to British nationality to (eg) a stateless person born in UK who has spent most of his life here. It is intended to ensure that the UK complies with its obligations under the Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness.
Section 4B (also mentioned above) is the provision whereby BOCs, BSs and BPPs who have no other nationality and who haven't renounced or given up another nationality since 4 July 2002 are entitled to be registered as British citizens.

Again what a lack of common sense by the diplomats on both sides. The person who is stateless cannot even apply for OCI. One needs to be a citizen and have a passport of a country that allows dual nationality to have OCI in the first place. And IND is instructing its staff to confirm whether the stateless people have OCI ?