Overseas Citizenship of India (OCI)

ppron747 · Post by **ppron747** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:31 pm

ppron747 wrote: It just doesn't sound right to me: a child cannot renounce British nationality, and a parent cannot do it on a child's behalf. If 6.5 is correct, the child loses Indian citizenship at the very same time that it would have been able to divest itself of British citizenship, if it wished. Essentially, it means that the child is being punished for failing to do something that the law didn't allow it to do. It beggars belief that there isn't some grace period, Kenya-style...

basis wrote:It sounds that Indian law treats acquisition of British Passport for the child as act of renouncing Indian Citizenship. Is this correct ? Or the British HO have understood it wrongly or the Indian babus have managed successfully to confuse them ?

I've lost count of the number of times that question has been addressed here, basis! Yes - acquisition of a British passport for a child born here means that the child cannot be registered as an Indian citizen - or loses Indian citizenship if it has already acquired it.

ppron747 wrote: Schedule 2 is the part of the 1981 Nationality Act that gives entitlement to British nationality to (eg) a stateless person born in UK who has spent most of his life here. It is intended to ensure that the UK complies with its obligations under the Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness.
Section 4B (also mentioned above) is the provision whereby BOCs, BSs and BPPs who have no other nationality and who haven't renounced or given up another nationality since 4 July 2002 are entitled to be registered as British citizens.

basis wrote:Again what a lack of common sense by the diplomats on both sides. The person who is stateless cannot even apply for OCI. One needs to be a citizen and have a passport of a country that allows dual nationality to have OCI in the first place. And IND is instructing its staff to confirm whether the stateless people have OCI ?

No - I think you have misunderstood...
They need to check whether a person who claims he is stateless is telling the truth. A person could produce his cancelled passport to show that he has lost Indian citizenship, and attempt to conceal the fact that he has OCI, in his (say) South African passport that the Home Office didn't know he had. They're trying to check whether he's actually stateless, by covering as many eventualities as possible, however unlikely.

basis · Post by **basis** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:46 pm

ppron747 wrote: They need to check whether a person who claims he is stateless is telling the truth. A person could produce his cancelled passport to show that he has lost Indian citizenship, and attempt to conceal the fact that he has OCI, in his (say) South African passport that the Home Office didn't know he had. They're trying to check whether he's actually stateless, by covering as many eventualities as possible, however unlikely.

But if the person has South African passport then shouldn't they check that ? The person cant be stateless if holding SA passport. OCI cannot exist without his / her SA passport. We are running into cycles. Not anyone's fault. Full marks to Indian bureaucracy.

Post by **JAJ** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:35 pm

ppron747 wrote: It just doesn't sound right to me: a child cannot renounce British nationality, and a parent cannot do it on a child's behalf. If 6.5 is correct, the child loses Indian citizenship at the very same time that it would have been able to divest itself of British citizenship, if it wished. Essentially, it means that the child is being punished for failing to do something that the law didn't allow it to do. It beggars belief that there isn't some grace period, Kenya-style...

While it's true that minors cannot renounce British citizenship, it is possible (rightly or wrongly) for a minor to renounce the citizenship of certain other countries, the U.S. and Australia to give two examples.

basis · Post by **basis** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:25 am

JAJ wrote: While it's true that minors cannot renounce British citizenship, it is possible (rightly or wrongly) for a minor to renounce the citizenship of certain other countries, the U.S. and Australia to give two examples.

In fact AFAIK even in the case of minors who have BC they can renounce when they turn 18 and they will be given back Indian Citizenship in that case. Anyways with the new OCI rules it is not that difficult.

basis · Post by **basis** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:20 pm

Just in case if anyone did not know this.

The Consulate General of India, Birmingham has since started accepting applications for OCI

http://www.cgibirmingham.org/OCI_alt.htm

anonymous10 · Post by **anonymous10** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:37 pm

It looks a bit bizzare to me for minors who are registered as British citizens. As far as I am aware minors can have dual Indian and British Citizenships until they are 18. Once they turn 18 they have to renounce British Citizenship if they want to retain Indian Citizenship. The only restriction is that a minor should not have two passports. I did check this fact with one HCI a year ago and they had this to say

yes, your son can continue as an Indian citizen. yes minor children can hold two nationalities but only one passport. they have to give up one nationality at eighteen.

Regards
XXXXX
Consular Wing
High Commission of India
London
WC2B 4NA
Tel: 0207 836 8484 Ext: 282
Fax:0207 836 4331

anonymous10 · Post by **anonymous10** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:48 pm

This from the FAQs from consular wing of the HCI web-site.
Looks like there is some confusion about Indian citizenship laws.

Do the laws of India provide, under any circumstances, for a minor of Indian descent to remain a citizen of India after acquiring by naturalization or registration British nationality and acquiring a British passport?

There are some provisions which allow a child eligible to be an Indian citizen to have the option of Indian citizenship open till he becomes an adult. The child can however hold only one passport at any time.

basis · Post by **basis** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:25 pm

anonymous10 wrote:This from the FAQs from consular wing of the HCI web-site.
Looks like there is some confusion about Indian citizenship laws.

Do the laws of India provide, under any circumstances, for a minor of Indian descent to remain a citizen of India after acquiring by naturalization or registration British nationality and acquiring a British passport?

There are some provisions which allow a child eligible to be an Indian citizen to have the option of Indian citizenship open till he becomes an adult. The child can however hold only one passport at any time.

Anonnymous - I think you are right. I enquired with MHA and they said that every child who could have been Indian citizen by birth retains that right upto the age 18 irrespective of obtaining any other passport etc. The only catch is that the child can renounce the other nationality only between the age of 18 and 18 1/2 years of age. So once you get UK passport for your child - you cannot get Indian passport for your child till it becomes 18 (unless it qualifies for it in other ways e.g. 7 year residence normally and 5 years in case the child has OCI)

So the verdict - acquisition of a British passport for a child born here means that the child cannot be registered as an Indian citizen - or loses Indian citizenship if it has already acquired it - may not be completely accurate.

basis · Post by **basis** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:41 pm

Status of the Applicants - Chicago Consulate

OIC - Overseas Indian Citizenship - First Cards Issued - Read message 231 onwards

YES!!
I am one of the lucky 14 families who got the OIC. Houston consulate on saturday 11th feb had arranged a formal function to handout the OIC (they claimed first issuance for whole US). the consul general gave a small speech followed by handing over ceremony then followed by a catered lunch.

The oic is a 2 part doc. a passport/pio card look alike booklet with the OIC printed on front and other details inside. It feels better than the pio booklet. the second part is the U-visa stamp on the US passport. this is actually good since we dont have to carry 2 docs each time we leave/enter the country.

on a side note.. i had applied in jan 2005. the consul said it may take 4-5 mo for people who apply now. again that is just a guess as he said it depends on how fast delhi can process.=

basis · Post by **basis** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:01 pm

mhunjn wrote:After reading and re-reading the already present thread on OCI, I am totally confused due to sheer amount of information/delibrations there!...

So a call for help.

mhunjn - I think first of all let's respect that this is a UK immgration related boards. Also let's keep in mind there are specialized and dedicated message boards / groups for OCI, NRI etc. I have posted on the very first page link to a very active and informative group on the topic. Anyhow I am giving the links to some message boards below for ease of reference. Let's try to use those. And keep our room on this board only to one thread. And anyways if you look at some other board / group below they have maintained much larger (really mega) thread for the topic. Multiple threads will not solve the issue but add to it. Hope you would agree to it. Let's support the moderators in keeping the MB tidy and efficient

.

Message boards, groups and threads -
http://boards.immigrationportal.com/sho ... e=99&pp=15
http://groups.msn.com/r2iclub/general.msnw
http://groups.msn.com/r2iclub/general.m ... 1397030432
http://groups.msn.com/R2INRIFinanceAndInvestments

Some other useful links:

http://india.gov.in/overseas/nri.php
http://www.indialiaison.com/pio.htm
http://www.banknetindia.com/books/handbook.htm
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/rbi/page3.htm
http://www.immigrationindia.nic.in/FAQs.htm
http://www.femaonline.com/prohibited_investments.htm
http://www.mha.nic.in
http://hcilondon.net/Overseas-Indian-Ci ... exnew.html
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en ... nex_h.html

mhunjn wrote: 1. How can we apply for OCI... there is an online form and one that can be downloaded. If we do the online thing, do we still have to go the IHC for submitting paper copies?

You can send the form in both the cases by post or you can go in person. Choice is yours. It is recommended to travel to HCI London or Birmingham for that to minimize delays and loss of documents in transit etc. Just look at the link I have provided from HCI Birmingham site in previous message and the instructions are pretty clear.

mhunjn wrote: 2. On the benefits part of the brochure, 'non parity with NRI as far as agriculture land ownership' is mentioned. What is that about?... Can't an OCI own land in India?

An OCI can own land but not the agricultural land. Even an Indian citizen resident abroad cannot make fresh qcquisitions of agricultural land. However, I will request you to use the message boards / groups I have referred to above. Let's respect that this is UK Immigration Discussion Board and also you will get better advise / response on these sort of queries in the other deidicated boards for these topics.

mhunjn wrote: 3. If/Can a couple apply for OCI using the same form, do they have to pay 2xFee or are they covered by one application fee?

If you read the application form even once you will know the answers to the questions. Anyway simply while application form for 2 adults and upto 2 of their minor children can be one obviously the application fee is per person. So yes a couple can and should fill only one form and they will have to pay 2 * fee.

mhunjn · Post by **mhunjn** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:34 pm

Thanks a lot for bringing up the relevant information in one post. I am not interested in most of the comments in the multiple pages of this one thread... just had a few very clearly defined queries. I do appreciate your response on those.

"I think first of all let's respect that this is a UK immgration related boards"

Thanks for pointing that out. I was merely trying to get some relevant info out of something that's already being discussed.

basis · Post by **basis** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:00 pm

mhunjn wrote:Thanks a lot for bringing up the relevant information in one post. I am not interested in most of the comments in the multiple pages of this one thread... just had a few very clearly defined queries. I do appreciate your response on those.
"I think first of all let's respect that this is a UK immgration related boards"
Thanks for pointing that out. I was merely trying to get some relevant info out of something that's already being discussed.

well thanks for the understanding. And whatever be the case we can use this thread to keep the info flowing. Clearly multiple threads on same topic wont be of any use to anyone.

basis · Post by **basis** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:59 am

Dabar - Any update on OCI. did you check the status of your application using the online registration facility.

Apparently people have started receiving the cards and visas slowly -

http://ia.rediff.com/news/2006/feb/16du ... &file=.htm
http://www.indianconsulate.com/Announce ... icants.htm
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/...01600060001.htm

basis · Post by **basis** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:02 am

Phone number / contact details of MOIA (could be useful for the OCI seekers)

Shri Vayalar Ravi- Minister PHONE- 91-11-24676839 / 24676837
E-MAIL ID minister@moia.nic.in

Shri S. Krishna Kumar- Secretary PHONE- 91-11-24674144 / 24674143 / 24197902 / 24197991
E-MAIL ID secretary@moia.nic.in

Address:
Ministry of Overseas Indian Affairs
9th Floor, Akbar Bhawan
Chanakya Puri
New Delhi - 110021
I n d i a

dabar · Post by **dabar** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:04 am

I've been doing the online status check daily using my Ref. No. as the first thing in the morning. It has started showing 'Under Process' from 7th Feb (i.e. a day after I submitted my application). It also shows my File No.

It seems that I can do the online status check using either of the Ref. No or the File No.

Anyway I am not expecting to see the 'Granted' message at least until the end of next week. And I'm also prepared myself to wait till May 06 for receiving my OCI card.

I'll consider myself lucky if I get OCI card before that.

basis · Post by **basis** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:15 am

Thanks Dabar - I hope you will get it much before that. Good luck.

basis · Post by **basis** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:35 am

On Thursday, the Union Cabinet cleared amendments to the Representation of People's Act Bill under which non-resident Indians (NRIs) can now have voting rights. For the 25-mn strong Indian Diaspora scattered across the globe, Vayalar Ravi is the new man to get in touch with.

Dual citizenship cards, voting rights for NRIs, ensuring safety of Indian workers abroad, busting fake immigration rackets – the newly inducted Minister of Overseas Indian Affairs has his plate full. As this seasoned Kerala Congressman takes on the mantle of addressing global Indians and their various issues, Nilanjana Bhaduri Jha and Lopamudra Ghatak caught up for some exclusive speak.
...........
.........
.........
How has the response to the dual citizenship card scheme introduced at the PBD been?

The response has been tremendous and it has been well accepted. Already, there have been between 3,000-4000 applications. However, we are looking to minimise the process work involved and the single window Pravasi centre will help in this regard. Maximum demand has come from Canada, US and Europe – many people are looking forward to coming back.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...577,curpg-1.cms

lemess · Post by **lemess** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:07 am

Unfortunately NRIs are Indian citizens settled abroad so voting rights for them ( which they should always have had anyway) are not going to impact OCIs.

basis · Post by **basis** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:29 am

True Lemess. But many people are really not aware of the fact that NRIs that is Indian Citizens abroad dont have voting rights. They are required to be removed from electoral register while they are abroad.

It sounds strange but is a fact. The implementation of this was almost absent but that meant that one could not use the postal ballet or legally one was not allowed to vote under People's representative act etc.

Yes it does not affect OCI. The post is relevant to OCI for this the information - 'How has the response to the dual citizenship card scheme introduced at the PBD been?

The response has been tremendous and it has been well accepted. Already, there have been between 3,000-4000 applications. However, we are looking to minimise the process work involved and the single window Pravasi centre will help in this regard. Maximum demand has come from Canada, US and Europe – many people are looking forward to coming back. '

And at this rate one would hope that somewhere in future OCIs will get the voting rights too (not that I am dying for it)

basis · Post by **basis** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:53 am

Here are a few things which either one cant do or need special permission of RBI or are grey for OCI holders as compared to full citizens of India etc. Lets keep adding or clarifying as we go along. Now tha granting OCI looks to be underway a bit.

- Missionary, mountaineering and research activity
- Visiting PAP / RAP areas
- Investment as a resident is a grey area - no one knows for sure whether you remain an NRI or become resident Indian
- If you stay in hotels etc you need to fill in foreigner's registration form C (somewhere I saw some material on web that you dont have to do this as an OCI - but not sure
- Agricultural property
- Any immovable property (need to file a form with RBI)
- Some restriction on acquiring / selling immovable properties (e.g cant sell / buy from another NRI
- No ration card (again I am not very sure)
- Admission to schools / colleges for kids - not sure whether one can use general category or has to use expensive NRI quota
- Higher charges in hotel (though not by law but by practice)
- No clarity on insurance, LIC, PPF, postal and so on schemes

basis · Post by **basis** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:08 pm

raikal wrote:Does any one has OCI approved ? Some one told me that they are now taking 1 month to approve..

Because of delay in processing time, I would like to apply PIO first then after getting it immediately apply for OCI. As I am travelling to India in 2 months I see this option as best than taking a 6 months visa...

Any suggestions ?

Regards

I repeat lets maintain only one thread for the OCI discusion - anything asking questions / clarifications / something not yet covered by this thread or not understood / found by the posters.

To answer specific questions of raikal -

Yes there have been approvals across the world viz. US, Canada, Dubai, NZ etc. Not only approvals but actual Visa sticker pasted and booklet issued to the applicants. But no known case of approval from UK - London or B'ham. We know one case of application on this board but not yet approved / received.

If you browse the last two pages of this thread you will get all the necessary info.

Current advise is - better to go for PIO now and then convert to OCI at additional cost of USD 25 equivalent. Reason - PIO timeline known (3 weeks approx)and process established. OCI still being stabilized and timelines cant be predicted.

dabar · Post by **dabar** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:59 pm

Hi Friends!
I am very pleased to inform you this!

Just now I did the OCI Online Status Check and it is now showing as "Granted 21-FEB-2006".

So one big hurdle cleared. Now waiting to hear from HCI, London about the collection of my OCI card and U-Visa.

mhunjn · Post by **mhunjn** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:00 pm

Congrats... so you got the granted status in about 3 wks then?... That's pretty good considering they ae advising about 3 months?...

dabar · Post by **dabar** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:24 pm

I am yet to receive the OCI card and visa. How long for that? I have no idea.

So the 3 month time frame might still hold true.

But now I am expecting it to take less than that.

basis · Post by **basis** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:18 pm

dabar - congrats for being the first on this board to receive the oci. you will be soon contacted by the embassy for your card and visa sticker.

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Overseas Citizenship of India (OCI)

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