Government launches consultation on family route

[beatboy]

Online petition now online. Please everyone spread the word and email and link to everyone you know - this is the best way to take proactive action against the Government

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/15349

[mundauk]

Thanks beatboy


Economists urge rethink on immigration

A group of prominent economists is urging George Osborne, chancellor, to defend his pro-growth agenda by modifying immigration curbs that would be “deeply damaging” to the nation’s competitiveness and growth.

In a letter to the Financial Times on Monday, the group criticises a forthcoming shift in Home Office policy which is expected to limit economic migrants from outside the European Union to a five-year stay. After this, those who did not earn a sufficiently high salary would have to return home.




The economists write that such moves to discourage migrants from coming to the UK or settling in the country permanently would be “deeply damaging to the competitiveness of our science and research sectors and to the wider economy”.

Although the Home Office is yet to make its final policy announcement – one of a range of measures designed to reduce annual net migration to under 100,000 by 2015 – an independent committee that advises ministers on immigration has suggested that the salary threshold should be set between £31,000 and £49,000.

The economists write that such moves to discourage migrants from coming to the UK or settling there permanently would be “deeply damaging to the competitiveness of our science and research sectors and to the wider economy”.

The committee calculated that a £35,000 minimum salary would reduce the number of non-EU migrants and their dependants granted settlement by two-thirds but would cut 0.29 per cent of the UK’s gross domestic product within five years.

“The policy could almost have been designed to deter the migrants whom we most want and, for those who do come, to expel many of those we would most like to remain,” the letter reads.

Signatories include Chris Pissarides, the Nobel laureate, and Richard Portes, president of the Centre for Economic Policy Research, as well as Professor Sir Partha Dasgupta, originally from Bangladesh, Professor Nobu Kiyotaki from Japan, and Professor David Vines, who is Australian.

“Had such a policy been in place when some of the signatories to this letter were considering coming to this country, they might have chosen not to come at all, or would not have been allowed to remain,” they write.

The economists also raise concerns that although the Home Office has given repeated assurances that there will always be a place for the most valuable migrants, talent takes time to develop and some of the brightest may not earn enough in their early years to qualify for settlement.

“One cannot identify the next generation of entrepreneurs or Nobel laureates only a few years into their careers, and certainly not just by looking at how much they are paid,” the letter argues.

The Border Agency said while the UK was determined to attract the best talent and maintain its leading global position, settlement was “a privilege, not a right”.

“We have consulted widely on this issue and will be announcing our policy shortly,” the UKBA said. “We are taking action across every route to the UK to control immigration and bring net migration under control.”

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b491f052-138a ... z1eKynWQDb

[krs133]

There was a debate on immigration in the House of Commons yesterday.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/? ... -12a.581.0

No new announcements but Green did say this:

On the family migration route, we have consulted on new measures to tackle abuse of family migration; to promote integration, as I said; and to reduce burdens on the taxpayer. Within the next few months, we will bring forward proposals that will achieve all those aims.

I assumed that an announcement on family migration was imminent, but 'within the next few months' suggests not - I was also assuming that the changes were scheduled for April 2012 but they would surely need more lead time if that were the case. Any thoughts?

[beatboy]

Interesting debate although I couldn't find any MP who addressed concerns about the income salary issue. They mentioned sham marriages and the need to cut the amount of spouse visas but nothing on the case of genuine UK couples who just want to live together.

Krs - its a good point about the timing. One would assume that once the proposals are announced they would take several months to be passed into law. Hopefully it will buy us all a little more time.

[geriatrix]

Krs - its a good point about the timing. One would assume that once the proposals are announced they would take several months to be passed into law. Hopefully it will buy us all a little more time.

Secondary legislation (under which such changes to immigration rules fall) does not require months to become a law. Such changes may become law on the day(s) specified (e.g. - immediately) - unless they are annulled within a defined timeframe (negative instruments).

[krs133]

I know secondary legislation can become law immediately, but I would have thought UKBA would need at least some lead time to ensure that changes can be implemented on the given date.

In the case of the family visa changes, the original consultation document states specifically that they plan to introduce the new rules in April 2012. Damian Green made no reference to April 2012 in his statement but merely said "within the next few months we will bring forward proposals" which makes it sound as if there is at least a possibility of that date slipping.

Unfortunately no MP picked up on this in the debate and instead discussed immigration policy in much more general terms, which suggests that - for all their bluster - most MPs have little interest in the details of immigration policy.

Equally unfortunately we did not hear any detail from Lib Dem MPs on their thoughts on the proposals, in particular the minimum income threshold which I would have thought would be anathema to a party with 'liberal' in its name. Perhaps there is wrangling behind the scenes (he says hopefully).

[navalaviator]

I have found the following quote from a letter of Damien green the immigration minister from a forum whose link is below which is something really a sigh of relief in the current uncertainty of whether new rules this year would apply or not to people already en route to ILR.

"We will announce in due course which proposals we will take forward from the consultation. It is currently envisaged that any changes to the Immigration Rules would be implemented in April 2012. Such changes would not affect applications made before then."

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthre ... 195&page=8


Some body who posted an email from immigration minister on one of the previous pages in this thread says that there will be Transitional arrangements for the people who are on visas issued before the new ILR rules which is another significant reason to believe that new rules will not affect the people already en route to ILR and a ray of light which suggests that we will escape the new rules.

Any changes to the Immigration Rules arising from the consultation are due to be implemented in April 2012. We are looking closely at what transitional arrangements should be put in place for those granted a family visa or leave to remain before the changes come into force.

So on the balance of probabilities these are significant reasons to believe that new rules will not affect the people already en route to ILR and a ray of light which suggests that we will escape the new rules and also in the consultation document there is no mention of whether the new rules would apply or not to the people who hold visas issued prior to the proposed changes this year in April.

[GrahamD85]

Here's Damian Green's speech from earlier today in case anyone is interested. Nothing really new there and no news yet on when the final changes will be announced, how they'll be implemented and who they will apply to (i.e. those entering the UK after April 2012)

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/media-cent ... ation-work

[Asgard]

Here's Damian Green's speech from earlier today in case anyone is interested. Nothing really new there and no news yet on when the final changes will be announced, how they'll be implemented and who they will apply to (i.e. those entering the UK after April 2012)

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/media-cent ... ation-work

Hmm, no date set yet then. Hope it won't be as soon as April. Hope in fact this gets challenged in the courts should it be implemented.


Asgard

[krs133]

A curious speech. I assumed from the weekend coverage that we would have a policy announcement in the Commons this week, not the restatement of existing principles to a think tank.

It wouldn't take this long to work out the policy details, so the delay must be either because of legal questions or disagreements within the coalition. I think the former is more likely because the hinted-at restrictions on family visas are a legal minefield.

[Asgard]

A curious speech. I assumed from the weekend coverage that we would have a policy announcement in the Commons this week, not the restatement of existing principles to a think tank.

It wouldn't take this long to work out the policy details, so the delay must be either because of legal questions or disagreements within the coalition. I think the former is more likely because the hinted-at restrictions on family visas are a legal minefield.

Interesting points there. Could be there's more going on behind the scenes than meets the eye and not all is as smooth and easy as they'd want.


Asgard

[Garnet]

Will these changes to the family visas apply to applications that are already processing?

In other words, if we get our application in before the changes are announced, will the current rules apply to us?

[Asgard]

Will these changes to the family visas apply to applications that are already processing?

In other words, if we get our application in before the changes are announced, will the current rules apply to us?

I'm not sure. I would also like to know the answer to that as we're just about in that position now.


Asgard

[Garnet]

I just spoke with an immigration advisor in London, who said that without the final policy they can't know for sure, but that it would be extraordinarily unusual for the new rules to apply to visas that are already in processing (already received by the home office).

So, if you get the application in before the new rules come about, you *should* be OK, however it's not a guarantee until the official policy comes out I guess.

I'm also curious is the new ILR requirements will apply to those on spouse visas who will then (in 2 years) graduate to ILR...seems to contradict Article 8 if you allow spouses into the country for 2 years and then require them to earn £30-50k a year to stay with their family...

[Asgard]

I just spoke with an immigration advisor in London, who said that without the final policy they can't know for sure, but that it would be extraordinarily unusual for the new rules to apply to visas that are already in processing (already received by the home office).

If that's the case, then that's something.

So, if you get the application in before the new rules come about, you *should* be OK, however it's not a guarantee until the official policy comes out I guess.

Agree. Nothing's guaranteed at this stage.

I'm also curious is the new ILR requirements will apply to those on spouse visas who will then (in 2 years) graduate to ILR...seems to contradict Article 8 if you allow spouses into the country for 2 years and then require them to earn £30-50k a year to stay with their family...

That's a good question and perhaps bears examination.


Asgard

[MWill]

I'm also curious is the new ILR requirements will apply to those on spouse visas who will then (in 2 years) graduate to ILR...seems to contradict Article 8 if you allow spouses into the country for 2 years and then require them to earn £30-50k a year to stay with their family...

It does go against Article 8 - judges already say that "not earning enough" isn't a good enough reason for splitting up a couple or family already living here. People win appeals on this a lot. That's why IOs hardly ever refuse ILR based on maintenance, and they are actively discouraged in the guidance from doing it. If they introduce a threshold for in-country people, expect masses of appeals, probably successful ones.

Worth noting that the latest suggestions from several sources are that anybody already here on a spouse visa will likely not have to meet the new threshold for ILR after April 2012 - they'll probably still be judged based on the old rules.

[moz]

hi everyone,

is there any new updates about thse new rulesw yet?I think I read somewhere on the forum that,they were supposed to make decision by end of last week,but nothing yet!

[krs133]

There is no announcement scheduled, although the changes are supposed to come in by April 2012 so the clock is ticking on that.

[ajax]

Hi everyone

Does anyone know if the proposed extension of the qualifying period for the non-EEA spouse of a British citizen applying for ILR from two years to five years will apply to those FLR visaholders who are within a few months of qualifying for ILR under the current (and soon to be old) rules?

For instance, if my friend got married to a British citizen in November 2010 and was granted FLR in November 2010 by virtue of this marriage, under the old rules my friend would be eligible to apply for ILR four weeks before the two-year anniversary, which will be an application date of October 2012. Will my friend now have to wait until October 2015 even though this was not what my friend was told when the FLR visa was granted?

Many thanks

[krs133]

From page 9 of the document on employment-related settlement:

"We have consulted separately on proposals to extend the probationary period before spouses and partners can apply for settlement in the UK from the current two years to five years. We will make an announcement on this and other proposals in the Family Migration consultation document later this year."

So it looks like a delay.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publicatio ... iew=Binary

[GrahamD85]

'Later this year' sounds like a significant delay if that's when they're going to announce the new rules. That's annoying, I'd rather know now.

You never know though, they might bring in new rules in time for the original implementation period of April. They'd look silly if they didn't.

[Greenie]

'Later this year' sounds like a significant delay if that's when they're going to announce the new rules. That's annoying, I'd rather know now.

You never know though, they might bring in new rules in time for the original implementation period of April. They'd look silly if they didn't.

if they were going to bring in the family route consultation changes for April then they would have said so in this announcement. it is clear that the announcement has been delayed. Probably because they know that it is going to a lot more controversial and they are still seeking advice on what they can get away with.

[krs133]

Personally I'm quite glad of the delay as my partner is applying in person for an unmarried partner visa next week and it is good to have a bit of leeway if anything goes wrong...

[GrahamD85]

Sorry, that sounds a bit selfish of me. This is good news for people who want to get in now before the door potentially closes.

I'm still thinking UKBA will announce that those who applied for a marriage visa before the rule comes in will be fine when it comes to ILR (apply under the current rules now) but we'll have to wait.

Good luck with your application krs133.

[MWill]

From page 9 of the document on employment-related settlement:

"We have consulted separately on proposals to extend the probationary period before spouses and partners can apply for settlement in the UK from the current two years to five years. We will make an announcement on this and other proposals in the Family Migration consultation document later this year."

So it looks like a delay.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publicatio ... iew=Binary

Interesting - very different from Green's "we will shortly be announcing" just a few weeks ago. Well, they can't bring it in for April 1st now, because they have to give 28 days notice of the changes.

I wonder what the sticking point is, if there is one? The lawyers telling them they can't get away with it? UKBA officers pointing out that elements of it are impractical? Disagreements with the Lib Dems?