NEED ADVICE MOVING TO IRELAND WITH MY NON-EU SPOUSE

[masmaqadz]

Read MRAX carefully!

And remember that it is very important that the EU citizen find work within 90 days. McDonalds is fine, even part time. But it has the be paid work, and it should leave a paper trail of evidence (wuch as a letter from your employer confirming employment, or pay slips or a contract). This is needed both for the initial Irish Residence Card (called 4EUFam) and if you ever want to use Singh to return to the UK.

THanks very much. I got it now, but I am bit confused bout Proving his identidy and our conjugal ties. He got full UK driving license since 4 years and we registered our marriage in 2010 and been living togather since 2009. Our birthday, anniversary cards we gave to each other + pictures togather since 3 years we living togather and wedding pictures or if conjugal ties means something else? Many thanks.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Read MRAX carefully!

And remember that it is very important that the EU citizen find work within 90 days. McDonalds is fine, even part time. But it has the be paid work, and it should leave a paper trail of evidence (wuch as a letter from your employer confirming employment, or pay slips or a contract). This is needed both for the initial Irish Residence Card (called 4EUFam) and if you ever want to use Singh to return to the UK.

THanks very much. I got it now, but I am bit confused bout Proving his identidy and our conjugal ties. He got full UK driving license since 4 years and we registered our marriage in 2010 and been living togather since 2009. Our birthday, anniversary cards we gave to each other + pictures togather since 3 years we living togather and wedding pictures or if conjugal ties means something else? Many thanks.

If it is your husband, you only need a marriage certificate to provde the family relationship. Nothing else. And passport to prove identity.

MRAX answers several questions:
(1) What happens if somebody arrives at the broder but does not have the right visa.
(2) What happens if somebody applies for a RC buy does not have a valid visa
(3) ....

[masmaqadz]

Read MRAX carefully!

And remember that it is very important that the EU citizen find work within 90 days. McDonalds is fine, even part time. But it has the be paid work, and it should leave a paper trail of evidence (wuch as a letter from your employer confirming employment, or pay slips or a contract). This is needed both for the initial Irish Residence Card (called 4EUFam) and if you ever want to use Singh to return to the UK.

THanks very much. I got it now, but I am bit confused bout Proving his identidy and our conjugal ties. He got full UK driving license since 4 years and we registered our marriage in 2010 and been living togather since 2009. Our birthday, anniversary cards we gave to each other + pictures togather since 3 years we living togather and wedding pictures or if conjugal ties means something else? Many thanks.

If it is your husband, you only need a marriage certificate to provde the family relationship. Nothing else. And passport to prove identity.

MRAX answers several questions:
(1) What happens if somebody arrives at the broder but does not have the right visa.
(2) What happens if somebody applies for a RC buy does not have a valid visa
(3) ....

Yes, he is my husband and we got the marriage certificate but as I mentioned in previous post that his passport has been retained by Home office in Uk when he applied for FLR(M).

I carefully read MRAX and understood but styll as you mentioned his passport as his identity but he hasnt got it but he got his full UK d/l and he will be the one driving us. Many thanks,

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Carry as much other evidence of his identity as possible. E.g. old passports, birth certificate, old tax returns, etc....

[Ben]

he got his full UK d/l and he will be the one driving us. Many thanks,

What route are you taking?

If docking in Belfast or Larne (both Northern Ireland) and driving South you will not meet an immigration officer.

If docking in Dublin, Dun Laoghaire or Rosslare you may meet an immigration officer and potentially experience difficulties and / or refusal of entry if your husband is unable to present a valid passport within a reasonable time.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I am curious. Can you get a replacement passport from the embassy in London?

[masmaqadz]

[quote="Directive/2004/38/EC"]I am curious. Can you get a replacement passport from the embassy in London?[/quote

He can only get a replacment passport from embassy in London if he has lost/stolen his previous passport with police report and proof of UK leave to remain. His passport is with UKBA so we can not report it lost or stolen to police + he wont be able to show proof of leave to remain.

In lights with MRAX and METOCKS can we not argue with UKBA and ask for his passport?(its valid until July 2013.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I am curious. Can you get a replacement passport from the embassy in London?

He can only get a replacment passport from embassy in London if he has lost/stolen his previous passport with police report and proof of UK leave to remain. His passport is with UKBA so we can not report it lost or stolen to police + he wont be able to show proof of leave to remain.

In lights with MRAX and METOCKS can we not argue with UKBA and ask for his passport?(its valid until July 2013.

Just so you are 100% aware going into this, you should know that you may have to deal with the same catch-22 in Dublin.

First off you will need to get a job, or have enough money to be considered self sufficient. However, because your husband does not have a passport, he will not be able to apply for a RC.

But without an RC, how will he prove he is legal to his embassy. You and he will have to negotiate with his embassy until he can get a passport. You will likely have to involve these people: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/EU ... hts%20FAQs

Yes I know he will be legal, automatically for the first 90 days, but his embassy will not know that.

There was a previous thread in the EEA section of somebody in exactly the same situation who was resident in the UK. You should read carefully through the thread. He might have been Nigerian, though maybe he was from Pakistan. I am not sure

[masmaqadz]

I am curious. Can you get a replacement passport from the embassy in London?

He can only get a replacment passport from embassy in London if he has lost/stolen his previous passport with police report and proof of UK leave to remain. His passport is with UKBA so we can not report it lost or stolen to police + he wont be able to show proof of leave to remain.

In lights with MRAX and METOCKS can we not argue with UKBA and ask for his passport?(its valid until July 2013.

Just so you are 100% aware going into this, you should know that you may have to deal with the same catch-22 in Dublin.

First off you will need to get a job, or have enough money to be considered self sufficient. However, because your husband does not have a passport, he will not be able to apply for a RC.

But without an RC, how will he prove he is legal to his embassy. You and he will have to negotiate with his embassy until he can get a passport. You will likely have to involve these people: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/EU ... hts%20FAQs

Yes I know he will be legal, automatically for the first 90 days, but his embassy will not know that.

There was a previous thread in the EEA section of somebody in exactly the same situation who was resident in the UK. You should read carefully through the thread. He might have been Nigerian, though maybe he was from Pakistan. I am not sure

I tried to find that thread but cant find it.I came across to few forum while searching on google tht in uk if non eu spouse of eu citizen dont have passport at the time of their application they get their residence card issue on A4 paper, is it not the case in Ireland??

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... a+passport is one of the threads.

I tried to find that thread but cant find it.I came across to few forum while searching on google tht in uk if non eu spouse of eu citizen dont have passport at the time of their application they get their residence card issue on A4 paper, is it not the case in Ireland??

UKBA does that if you have submitted the passport for the RC application, but then asked for it back before the RC was issued. You still must submit the passport.

I do not think this is impossible at all. But I just want to warn you that you may have to work hard as a go between to arrange it

[masmaqadz]

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... a+passport is one of the threads.

I tried to find that thread but cant find it.I came across to few forum while searching on google tht in uk if non eu spouse of eu citizen dont have passport at the time of their application they get their residence card issue on A4 paper, is it not the case in Ireland??

UKBA does that if you have submitted the passport for the RC application, but then asked for it back before the RC was issued. You still must submit the passport.

I do not think this is impossible at all. But I just want to warn you that you may have to work hard as a go between to arrange it

That is rite ... We trying to go through the procedure of making his new passport. Hopefully his embassy will assist him to get his new passport.

[st pauli]

Read MRAX carefully!

And remember that it is very important that the EU citizen find work within 90 days. McDonalds is fine, even part time. But it has the be paid work, and it should leave a paper trail of evidence (wuch as a letter from your employer confirming employment, or pay slips or a contract). This is needed both for the initial Irish Residence Card (called 4EUFam) and if you ever want to use Singh to return to the UK.

If the EU citizen does not yet have work but has enough money to be considered self-sufficient, can you still apply for 4EUFAM?

I have tried to make sense of the relevant directives but I still can't get my head around the idea of self-sufficient, for how long exactly are you required to show you can be self-sufficient for?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Yes, you can apply for 4EUFam (a Residence Card) if the EU citizen is:
working
self employed
self sufficient
student

[st pauli]

Yes, you can apply for 4EUFam (a Residence Card) if the EU citizen is:
working
self employed
self sufficient
student

Thanks a lot, a couple of quick-fire follow up questions here if I may


1. Technically can't anybody just register as self-employed even if they don't have an obvious trade or any reason to be so? Not something I'd plan on doing in any case but just seems like a curious requirement.

2. Is €5,000 shown in a current account enough to apply for an 4EUFam for your spouse while not having employment, in respect of this whole self-sufficiency thing?

[agniukas]

when applying as a self employed, you will have to provide evidence of running a viable business... business bank statements for 6 months, documents from revenue, that you are paying tax and are registered, ect.
Invoices and receipts from business for 6 months.

as a self sufficient, i don't think that a lump sum in your account is sufficient... you need to have CONSTANT in-flow of money... lets say one spouse is working and is getting money on a weekly/monthly basis, and then the other spouse can claim to be self sufficicient if provided evidence that the working spouse is fully supporting him/her without resources to the social welfare

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

when applying as a self employed, you will have to provide evidence of running a viable business... business bank statements for 6 months, documents from revenue, that you are paying tax and are registered, ect.
Invoices and receipts from business for 6 months.

as a self sufficient, i don't think that a lump sum in your account is sufficient... you need to have CONSTANT in-flow of money... lets say one spouse is working and is getting money on a weekly/monthly basis, and then the other spouse can claim to be self sufficicient if provided evidence that the working spouse is fully supporting him/her without resources to the social welfare

YES um NO.

There is no fixed requirement for self sufficiency. You do not have to have constant inflow of money. If you have, e.g. 79,231 euro, and no inflows, that will be enough.

Self employed is similar. There are NOT fixed requirements. There is not a requirement that you have already done business. If, for example, you are a consultant to companies in insolvency and have an established track record and have set up the structures you need to do business, you should be fine. (That does not mean you just claim, with zero evidence, that you are self employed, when in fact you just spend all your time drinking down at the pub.)

[st pauli]

Thanks for the replies.

With reference to how it's done over the pond, the UKBA website it says

A qualified person is an EEA national who is in the UK and exercising a Treaty right as any of the following:

Job-seeker - The EEA national must be able to show evidence that they are seeking employment and have a genuine chance of being engaged, for example, evidence of job interviews, evidence of qualifications, registration with Job Centre / recruitment agencies.

Is there a similar allowance made in the Republic of Ireland, for people to be in the country job-seeking after the initial 90 day period?

If you reach 90 days and can't show what's deemed to be self-sufficiency level funds and aren't employed, what happens in the first instance?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

when applying as a self employed, you will have to provide evidence of running a viable business... business bank statements for 6 months, documents from revenue, that you are paying tax and are registered, ect.
Invoices and receipts from business for 6 months.

as a self sufficient, i don't think that a lump sum in your account is sufficient... you need to have CONSTANT in-flow of money... lets say one spouse is working and is getting money on a weekly/monthly basis, and then the other spouse can claim to be self sufficicient if provided evidence that the working spouse is fully supporting him/her without resources to the social welfare

Perhaps, the Irish authorities have imposed something in particular (please advise if so), but...

For self-employed, there is no fixed 6 month rule. It is possible to be self-employed from day one (granted, it might be a little difficult to demonstrate).

For self-sufficient, national authorities are not allowed to specify a fixed amount. It would be certainly feasible for a person to have a fixed sum and live on it until it runs down.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Is €5,000 shown in a current account enough to apply for an 4EUFam for your spouse while not having employment, in respect of this whole self-sufficiency thing?

It could be for a period of time, but you would need to replenish at some point.

If your outgoings were €1000 per month, then it would last for at least 5 months for example in the example you show. This might be acceptable if you could show how you planned to have an income later - from self-employment perhaps.

[st pauli]

Is €5,000 shown in a current account enough to apply for an 4EUFam for your spouse while not having employment, in respect of this whole self-sufficiency thing?

It could be for a period of time, but you would need to replenish at some point.

If your outgoings were €1000 per month, then it would last for at least 5 months for example in the example you show. This might be acceptable if you could show how you planned to have an income later - from self-employment perhaps.

Thanks for the reply. What I'm trying to do is apply for 4EUFam card for my wife as soon as I arrive so that she can work ASAP (I know it takes six months in any case).

If I arrive and initially show an amount like 5 or 6k in my account, could I apply on the basis of this for whatever the permission for me to stay longer than 90 days is called (EU1?) and 4EUFam card for my wife, with the stated intention of finding work (not self-employment) later?

There's also a possibility I could keep an employed status working remotely for my current UK employer, but it could only be one or two days a week - so an extra 'income' of potentially 200 - 400 euro a month.

I'm just looking for a vague idea of where I stand really, apologies for not starting a new thread but I feel my questions are probably a bit too diffused to get many replies.

Cheers.

[agniukas]

your wife will have to fill in an application form EU1. check it from now and see how you would fill it up in relation to your exercise of EU treaty rights.
As a self sufficient, you will need to provide comprehensive medical insurance certificate (that's around 1000 euros per a year for 2 adults).
In my opinion, the sooner you find employment and apply on the basis of being a worker, the better and easier to satisfy the conditions.

[st pauli]

your wife will have to fill in an application form EU1. check it from now and see how you would fill it up in relation to your exercise of EU treaty rights.
As a self sufficient, you will need to provide comprehensive medical insurance certificate (that's around 1000 euros per a year for 2 adults).
In my opinion, the sooner you find employment and apply on the basis of being a worker, the better and easier to satisfy the conditions.

Thank you, I found the form online and to be see it written out like that actually did make things a bit clearer.

Is there any provision to count the resources of a third party (for example, the EU citizen's parents or grandparents) towards self-sufficiency?

I've heard of this being permitted in some other EU member states, where such a third party writes a letter/delcaration stating the EU citizen has access to their income to help support themselves - but I don't know if this is allowed in every EU state, particularly in Ireland....the form does refer to 'other evidence of financial resources', would this come under that or doesn't it wash over there?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

In my opinion, the sooner you find employment and apply on the basis of being a worker, the better and easier to satisfy the conditions.

It is certainly easier for a worker to demonstrate entitlement to benefit from the directive than some other categories.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

with the stated intention of finding work (not self-employment) later?

It is also possible to benefit from the terms of the directive if one is seeking work. If you haven't done so, please read directive 2004/38/EC.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The requirements of EU law apply to all EU member states.

Resources for the EU citizen can come from anywhere, including work and savings of their partner.

Focus on getting a job as soon as possible in Ireland.